[gops2009]

Originally Posted by GTO

Mpower, in this case, would an airbag not have significantly protected the chest area from getting punctured by the steering?

GTO, an airbag would be more damaging in a weak structure what crumples into the passengers and this is what my contention was in my post when I mentioned about the Scorpio's and Xylo's, also in automobile design, this needs to be incorporated , to handle even the way the engine parts are stacked and bolted in the engine bay . This has a bearing in a crash, none of these have to intrude into the passenger cabin and need to collapse downwards. The fuel pump needs to shut off, the doors need to unlock etc, etc.
Over time, speeds have increased, the laws have evolved, the perception of vehicle owners have changed, the pattern of usage of vehicles have changed, the driver profiles have changed, the new norms should take cognizance of this reality, we cannot say the old Beetle does not meet the safety norms of the 21st century!! a comparison I saw on this thread...

[anjan_c2007]

A startling revelation!
Shows that India is a dumping place for all kinds of trash. The car is the best seller here and the 20,000 to 30,000 sales per month are indicative of its USP in our market. We ignore, or try to be blissfully ignorant of ground realities.
We impound cars for polluting and do not register them for not being BS IV complaint, but are yet to take school lessons about the NCAP ratings and how dangerous repercussions these safety ratings can have on the passengers and the general traffic.

[Screwdriva]

Only way this will change is if we spread the word!

[deetjohn]

That's a very scary sight.

This is why manufacturers launching the latest generation is very important even if the outside design is evolutionary. The body panels may or may not resemble the old car, but a new generation model will structurally be more capable to shield the occupants from a crash.

And high time government realizes the importance of safety.

[theMAG]

Not surprised at all. I have had very low respect for Maruti Suzuki for the willfully unsafe vehicles they continue to sell as best sellers in their largest global market -India. I have expressed this before as well: I would like to see the results of some mandatory crash test for all their vehicles till the Swift. I would be surprised if any of their vehicles in this test pass.

[Gannu_1]

About time safety in automobiles is treated as a necessity and not a luxury by the manufacturers. Entry-level hatchbacks such as the Alto should be providing driver and co-driver airbags than a music system which can always be installed by the customer later. I hope Maruti takes note of this piece of news.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by theMAG

Not surprised at all. I have had very low respect for Maruti Suzuki for the willfully unsafe vehicles they continue to sell as best sellers in their largest global market -India.

I am bit surprised because Alto was the car which was supposed to be the car to have marked the beginning of structurally better cars after the flimsily built cars like esteem, Zen, 800 etc. I remember how the auto magazines praised this aspect. may be the benchmark has changed since then.

[Sebring]

Zen and Esteem weren't flimsy at all. The steel is stronger than modern cars. My 16 year old zen refuses to rattle even today, that's some build quality. Yes, it lacks ABS+EBD

Originally Posted by Guna

I am bit surprised because Alto was the car which was supposed to be the car to have marked the beginning of structurally better cars after the flimsily built cars like esteem, Zen, 800 etc. I remember how the auto magazines praised this aspect. may be the benchmark has changed since then.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Zen and Esteem weren't flimsy at all. The steel is stronger than modern cars. My 16 year old zen refuses to rattle even today, that's some build quality. Yes, it lacks ABS+EBD

More then the sheet metal, the older cars like Zen, Esteem are said to be lacking the modern space frame/super structure, which Alto was supposed to have (and that's why relatively thicker A pillar).

[saket77]

Disappointed to say the least. I have respect for MS as a manufacturer and the vision it had and for revolutionizing the Indian auto scenario but as a market leader and enjoying the super-status in this country, MS should lead the industry & the society towards manufacturing safer cars. Also, they enjoy so much credibility here that once they had started stressing on safety aspects, even general people would have become more concious about this important aspect. As a leader, it should have been their responsibility.
MS, wake up!

[k_ajay]

No surprise and this news will hardly deter the potential customers for this and other such unsafe cars. Unfortunately, even within TBHP there will be folks who will go ahead and buy vehicles with poor safety, owing to budgetary constraints (but later go on to adorn their cars with alloy wheels and fancy accessories).

Govt is only interested in keeping stats of how many individuals died because of road accidents but least keen on ensuring only safe cars are allowed to be sold. Who would want to take the responsibility of such decisions which eats into the highly profitable tax structures and sales numbers, such volume cars bring? (road tax, vat on car, vat and/or tax on insurance, etc. etc.)..

When there exist naysayers for even vehicles equipped with 6 airbags, claiming no airbags will save life when a car falls off a bridge, there is no stopping those who prefer to go for shiny alloy wheels and automatic climate control over ABS and Airbags.

Very sad, really.

[FourWheelDrift]

Interesting thread.

Was wondering what the situation was in an advanced market like the U.S., so decided to do some digging at Edmunds.com.

The cheapest car sold in the U.S., seems to be the Nissan Versa 1.6 S sedan (sold in India as the Nissan Sunny), starting at US$11,990 for a 2013 / 2014 model year (and US$10,990 for a 2012 model year) car.

The standard safety features of the vehicle are :

Safety Features

• 4-wheel ABS

• Front and rear head airbags

• Dual front side-mounted airbags

• Child seat anchors

• Emergency braking assist

• Ventilated front disc / rear drum brakes

• Rear door child safety locks

• 2 front headrests

• 2 rear headrests

• Passenger airbag occupant sensing deactivation

• Rear center 3-point belt

• Front seatbelt pretensioners

• Stability control

• Traction control

• Electronic brakeforce distribution

• Emergency interior trunk release

• Front height adjustable headrests

• Rear height adjustable headrests

• Tire pressure monitoring

Next cheapest, is the Chevrolet Spark LS hatchback (sold in India as the Chevrolet Beat), starting at US$ 12,170 for 2014 model year car.

The standard safety features of the vehicle are :

Safety Features

• 4-wheel ABS

• Front and rear head airbags

• Dual front and dual rear side-mounted airbags

• Child seat anchors

• Emergency braking assist

• Ventilated front disc / rear drum brakes

• Rear door child safety locks

• Daytime running lights

• Engine immobilizer

• Auto delay off headlamps

• Dusk sensing headlamps

• 2 front headrests

• 2 rear headrests

• Passenger airbag occupant sensing deactivation

• Front seatbelt pretensioners

• Stability control

• Traction control

• Electronic brakeforce distribution

• Front height adjustable headrests

• Rear height adjustable headrests

• Post-collision safety system

• Tire pressure monitoring

If base versions of the 2 cheapest models in the U.S., are equipped with so many safety features as standard fitment, for a reasonable retail price, it is beyond reason why the same cannot be standard practice in India as well.

There are several passenger vehicles that are currently being sold in India, which are not even engineered for ABS / airbags, much less other safety systems mentioned above like brake assist, stability control, child restraints.

In my mind, A HIGH LEVEL of SAFETY IS NOT AN OPTION. It must come STANDARD in ALL versions / models.

[CARDEEP]

Whoa... I never thought it would be this bad with Suzuki, especially with teh Alto. Remember few years ago the Baleno scored a Duck, & this time it the Alto based K10.

These are repeat instances of inherent malpractices by the company to sell unsafe product in the name of mileage & handling. I feel my stand to choose, over Alto/ Wagon R) Santro Xing is vindicated, as it was sold in select European markets & had a 3-Star rating (http://www.euroncap.com/tests/hyundai_atoz_2000/25.aspx).

Enough of product bashing.... I feel, we Indians are really lax towards own safety in general life. Restricting my views to automobiles only, we have always preferred vehicles that are cheap but dangerous to own, viz - Bolero, Ambassadors, M800s/ Altos, Balenos, etc., just because either we feel these are sturdy, have thick sheet material or handle well, without paying a bit of attention to the monocoque structure that lies underneath.
Rural India is full of such vehicles that are based on ladder chassis (Jugaad included), & in case of accident cause more harm than saving the occupants.
Even today all of us would rush to buy a reliable SUV from Indian truck manufacturer (s), without looking for its safety ratings, just because it enables us explore the untamed/ unseen world.
And then we adorn our cars with bull bars, etc to make sure we grievously harm others as well, just because these add to the social standing of a person.

Such is our laxity towards own safety that one or other manufacturer is ready to dish out vehicles that run good, but the safety aspect isn't tested in real world.
Also, we are happy with ages old product (s) in the name of nostalgia, ride quality & sheet metal thickness.

One of a leading Indian manufacturer is making hay because of the same attitude of Indians, where they dish out roadworthy vehicles every couple of years just to add their bank balances. In fact, their leading product earned the following comments when they went out:

The testing authority noted: "The passenger compartment lost structural integrity. Protection from serious leg injury was poor for the driver due to excessive rearward movement of the brake pedal."

I have made sure that my next vehicle will be a safer option & will make sure I refer to safety ratings as well.
I read somewhere, Honda will get safety ratings for Brio based MUV, & I am sure it will fare well, even if have to pay more for this one.

[arunphilip]

I'd come across this report a few days ago via this link ( http://www.carsafetyrules.com/alto-k...s-safety/0805/ ) and posted about it here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/hatchb...ml#post3203176

[RSR]

This is very, very scary! Just take a look at the structure of the passenger cell at the end of the test.

We had a 5-speed 12-valve 800 earlier. It was a pocket rocket to put it simply. The free revving 800cc engine powering a light chassis, coupled with a very direct steering that offered excellent feel and millimetre-perfect feedback, put a huge smile on the face that cars twice its price often failed to do.

Nostalgia and fond memories of the pocket rocket were rekindled when Maruti Suzuki launched the Alto k10, which is an even better pocket rocket. I'm not so sure of that now after seeing this test, which is a real eye-opener!

The Suzuki Alto was sold in Europe till it was replaced by the A-Star, which is the current European Alto. It could not have been sold there had it failed to meet the mandatory crash test standards. These legal standards are lower than Euro-NCAP crash test ratings, but still require a decent crash worthy passenger cell structure that would not collapse on the occupants like this.

Then why did the k10, which is almost the same car, fail this test so badly? It must be because of the modifications carried out by Maruti Suzuki in India, who tinkered with the front crumple zone by extending the engine bay to accommodate the K10B engine. They must have done a terrible job of modifying the chassis, with absolutely no regards for the crash worthiness of the resulting structure. This is utterly shocking!

It's about time we had an I-NCAP with the same norms as the Euro-NCAP, to put an end to manufacturers taking us on a death ride. If the hon'ble Supreme Court can force the govt. to implement BS emission norms (based on the equivalent Euro norms) despite stiff resistance from the greedy auto lobby and the vile PSU oil mafia, then why not do the same with safety norms? Take note, SC!