![]() | #121 | ||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Kolkata
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Is Alto the most unsafe vehicle on Indian roads or would other models in comparable (if not identical categories) like Eon, Spark, Wagon R, Santro et al sport a similar lack of structural rigidity or are just slightly better. I dont think a ready answer is available since as mentioned by other contributors, some models which have been tested before in Europe may have been reinforced ones and hence safer than the stocks made available in India. If this be the case for most A/B segment models, then where does the average consumer shopping for cars in these segments go? If a counter question to that is that if the others are as bad or only slightly better, then does that make the Alto any better, obviously not! However since the Alto has been tested and exposed and some contributors (though not all) have taken this opportunity to denounce the model, its important to put things in perspective and understand if a choice in terms of safety at a particular price point really exists? Quote:
Hence to your point of the consumer blaming himself, sir, pls do consider the possibility that the average joe may just not have enough information to make that informed decision! In addition, at the risk of repetition, is my original point about whether enough 'safe' options are available at a particular price. It is quite another matter for someone to assume that one is driving a battle tank while seated in an Alto, the numbers of which, I guess arent many. Last edited by hothatchaway : 14th August 2013 at 17:23. | ||
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![]() | #122 | ||
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
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![]() | #123 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
Pretty much everything else has been tested including same gen (90s) cars like Santro and Spark. Estillo should be just as bad as K10 because its the same platform (as was the old WR) Current WR is based on A-star and is a very new design as is the Eon. Original Santro from 2000 2005 Spark/Matiz Last edited by Mpower : 14th August 2013 at 20:48. | |
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![]() | #124 | |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: New Delhi
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![]() | #125 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| ![]() I think they can omit things like the crossbar which prevents the engine intrusion in to the cabin or the collapsible steering shaft to save cost. |
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![]() | #126 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
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| ![]() I always thought Alto was unsafe because it looks like a reworked 800 platform from late 70-early 80. Structurally it was built for that time when safety regulations were totally different or not there and it might have meet the requirements then (if there were any). Any amount of safety gear will not improve the structural deficiency of a car, since it takes a lot of money to improve a car that way, what we get are cosmetic changes or refreshes. Any big structural change will be incorporated in the generational upgrade of the model. That’s’ the case with Alto as well. By the look of it, the current generation A-star/Alto seems better. I am sure, cars sold from that era (Ambassador or Premier Padmini) were equally bad. In India, the government doesn't seem to bother or have a very lax attitude to safety. No wonder we have supposedly 3 generations of the same car selling under different names (800/Alto/A-star) because it’s legally fine. Suzuki is not breaking any law doing it, It’s up to us to decide and buy the safest one. If we are price conscious and don’t worry much about safety. Then, that I suppose is the bargain we have made and shouldn't be blaming Suzuki for that. I know we have a cheaper car (Nano) which is safer than Alto but it was built from scratch in 2000’s to meet today’s requirements. It’s the same with Santro and Matiz which were built in late 1990s and incorporated the relevant standards from then. 800 and Alto are still using designs from the past, all costs of designing the car are already paid for, they will be built till the government makes our safety standards more stringent. Probably that’s the reason they still have A-star in the market even after the bad numbers, that ways, if the government changes safety requirements, they have a relevant product for the buyers. I have been telling anyone planning to buy a Alto to go for A-star because it’s safer (comparatively). |
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![]() | #127 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chennai
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The example above isn't about reinforcement but when a simple part not obvious to the eye is removed for cost cutting why wouldn't they do the same here too- assuming there is huge cost savings with minimal change. Last edited by pacman2881 : 14th August 2013 at 22:57. | |
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![]() | #128 | |||
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
Even though the dies are worn, the steel is still new. Quote:
Possible but not that simple. Removing crossmember would affect the resonant frequency of the BIW and lead to other unwanted squeaks and rattles that will kill them in warranty. 2ndly its the longitudinal members that absorb crush energy in frontal impact rather than the cross ones. Quote:
Knee pad ensures that the knee strikes a soft pad rather than a hard steel part in the event of a crash. It would be similar to removing Airbag, ABS for India. Last edited by Mpower : 15th August 2013 at 00:13. | |||
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![]() | #129 |
BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bokaro Steel
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| ![]() I am not exactly surprised at result. Maruti accident body workshop is in my neighborhood and except A Star all maruti vehicles below swuft and Ritz do not have any crash bar in front. All that lies is a bumper and then condenser. There is no safety bar in front of engine, while Santro and even Matiz has that. I first came to know of this when my Estilo crashed into a scorpio when it cut me at high speed and applied brakes. The impact was very low but it bent my radiator and condenser. I was surprised to see absence of any structure behind bumper except two metal bars above and below radiator. While a A Star nearby had a good metal bar in front of radiator behind bumper. Even Ertiga does not seem to have a very rigid structure seeing by the amount of damage they take in accident. While old swift had a poor cockpit safety compared to the newer model. Ritz had good shell and does not bent easily. Boot of older dezire has very poor strength and caves in very badly. All these are my observations seeing the accident vehicles at body shop and may not be very scientific. But I do make sure to visit body shop of every service center i am in just to see how vehicle behaved in accident. The best ones I have seen are indeed from FIAT and somewhat even TATA, they maintain their shell quite well in impact. but not SUV from TATA only cars |
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![]() | #130 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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And the Indian Santro was different from Atoz ( and probably inferior ) was the reason why Santro was not exported to Europe. Once Hyundai had the Xing with them, the exports to much developed market started. It was purely marketing gimmick that Santro was offering international safety standards significantly better than Zen (G10 Zen, then the market leader). However, Matiz was same as international Matiz sold in developed markets, but of course the omission of ABS, etc. was there. 2) The discontinued Alto was a tough little car also sold and exported to Europe. However, the installation of K10 might be the reason for the poor score as some structural change might be required. This is purely my assumption, but some how, the K10 is not a large unit and Alto used to have F8 and F10 with similar profile. K10 is also lighter than G10, as K10 just weighs in at 47 KG dry. G10 of Zen was round 70 kg IIRC. What I am trying to highlight is that some structural changes might have taken place when Maruti was creating K10 Alto. 3) A-star is not based on any Wagon R sold in India to the best of my knowledge. A-star is based on modified Swift platform as is Ritz. A-star scored 4/5 in Latin NCAP and 3/5 in Euro NCAP. The current K10 Wagon R is based on a contemporary platform which was sold in Japan till Sept 2012. In Sept 2012, the Wagon R platform was modified, stiffened and the current Wagon R sold in Japan was created. The Estilo, discontinued Alto and F10 Wagon R were all from same platform. Swift platform was designed keeping in mind around 5-6 models, i.e. Swift, splash (Ritz), A-star and SX4. A-star was created keeping in mind smaller motor than 1.2 (1242cc K12B sold internationally in Ritz/Swift), with emissions lower than 100 g/km. Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere. Last edited by aaggoswami : 15th August 2013 at 14:18. | |
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![]() | #131 |
BHPian ![]() | ![]() AFAIK A star was built on an all new platform. and the current wagon R is not a swift derivative i agree. |
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![]() | #132 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Sure. Pretty much everywhere unfortunately Atoz is Santo! Look at the headlight in the video. Different seats or dash-plastics does not change the structure & affect crash A-star is Swift platform???? That means 7 seater Ertiga is same platform as minicar A-star? Doesn't make sense at all If the old WR was based on Alto does it not make sense that current WR is based on current EDM Alto? ( ie A-star) Just look at the size of the vehicles/engines and use your judgement Alto800 hood was lengthened to create K10 which in theory should improve crash. Weight did not increase much because engine went from Iron to Aluminum OnO Last edited by Mpower : 15th August 2013 at 19:49. |
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![]() | #133 | |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: BengaLuru
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We had planned for the Alto K10 two years back which was cancelled due to lack of space for me and my father. Hence, we bought the WagonR, which I feel is a better built car compared to the Alto, and given its platform shares some DNA with the JDM wagonR. Though sheet metal is thin, I feel it is the structure that counts more. | |
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![]() | #134 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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2) Headlights are same, agreed, but the overall profile of C-pillar is entirely different and so are tail lights, rear door and rear hatch. N I will search for the issue wherein it was mentioned this. The headlights might look similar, but to the best of my knowledge, it was different platform, specific to India and even other countries similar to India. 3) Current A-star and Ritz are based on previous Gen Swift which was launched in 2005 and in which the Fiat SDE debuted in Maruti lineup. The new A-star based on the current Swift platform is currently under going testing and IMO, another thread has the spyshots. So, the Ertiga is based on current Swift Platform, not the earlier one. The A-star and Ritz are based on earlier Swift platform. 4) The current Wagon R sold in India has no relation with A-star. The Alto in Europe and Alto in Japan are now not sharing common platform. This was the case earlier. With A-star, the Alto platforms for Japan and European market were separated. Similar was case with Wagon R also. The F10D wagon R was in India was also available in EU markets with different motor. But, with arrival of Ritz ( known as Splash in EU and badge engineered as Opel Agila ) the EU Wagon R was gone. So, for EU markets, most cars were based on Swift platform. After A-star (Alto for EU) and Ritz (Wagon R replacement in EU), the Japanese Wagon R/Alto platforms were discontinued in EU. | |
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![]() | #135 | ||
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
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ie., A-seg minicar and 7-seat MPV on the same platform. This will be a new technical breakthrough ! Last edited by Mpower : 16th August 2013 at 21:00. | ||
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