[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Wish there were a few more like you ,
I have mentioned this earlier in some other thread, repeating the same here . I have got into fights with fellow passengers , have been abused and asked to get off the bus and have been threatened by drivers ... All because I have asked the drivers to drive carefully. I have been told " people like you always piss off the driver " or " we are in a Volvo bus , nothing can happen to us in an accident " " don't act over smart , we will throw you out of the bus on the ghat " ....

I disagree when you call the drivers as idiots. All those selfish people inside the bus , who turn a blind eye and ignore rash& negligent driving are bigger idiots. I have taken videos of drivers and shared with operators even when I have been threatened by drivers. I remember a KSRTC Volvo driver who was driving at a max of 70 kph. As I was sitting tight behind him , I could hear the conductor / co-driver making fun of him when even 100 cc bikes were overtaking him. That was when he mentioned that he was beaten up by a car driver whom he narrowly missed crashing into at a blind corner on the NH48. It seems this car swerved off the road to avoid him and the took a u turn and caught up with him after 15-20 mins to bash him up. He was saying , it's better to reach 5 mins late than get beaten up like that on the road. If only passengers were more careful. If not for others lives , but for their own well being

While I agree with you that we shouldn't blame to drivers alone, they definitely share some part of the blame.

That being said, drivers of these buses (esp. the intercity private ones) operate under some serious stress and horrible working conditions. Long trips (sometimes without back-up drivers), back-to-back shifts, unreasonable time targets and what not.

That still doesn't excuse putting everyone's life at risk though, but that's the ugly side of business. One man risking life & limb (his and others') so another can profit from his investment. And the worst thing is, one man refusing to do it makes no difference. There are 10 more able and willing to do it, just to make a livelihood.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by ajay99

avira_tk, I am sorry to say that you have got many of your facts wrong.
..
It has nothing to do with ''socialism''or its hangover''
which is in any case much better than ''crony capitalism''

Multiple speed limits on a two lane road, that has been the case forever and achieved just about nothing. I guess you have the socialist hangover, one of the prominent expressway critics was telling us how awesome it was to travel on one. You see, being a champagne socialist, it was fashionable to object to it, then he went on one overseas(where else) and said Kerala should have planned it long ago. The average speed in Kerala is 35kmph, I don't think that has made travelling any safer.The NHAI is the biggest form of crony capitalism, but as Kerala hates that, it ends up with roads that look like river beds.

Originally Posted by SASproject

That is a clearly baseless assumption. Let me put down three points:
...
I may be wrong but it is not in the spirit (or rules) of the forum to encourage overspeeding.

1. I said plenty of forum members have justified their speeds, don't take it personally, did I name you?
2. Being a reckless driver without means will serve you well when caught for a serious violation, for example a truck driver running over an office goer - who will get no compensation and there will be loads of sympathy for the driver when the case comes up. Talk to someone who has been in such a situation.
3. Before cameras, overspeeding was a euphemism for give money now or pay your fine in court, that latter meant rash driving with a fine 5 times as much. The bus owner's reputation is not my concern, crooked or not, they are a life line in Kerala.

The forum doesn't encourage any stunts on the road, no doubts about that, but most would agree that 50 is an unreasonable speed limit on a dual carriageway.

Originally Posted by johannskaria

The so called merits and justifications you've quoted are really really lame!
Let me quote you a report for reply !
...
Try explaining to the loved ones of the family your merits and justifications.
And stop for one movement and think, what if it happened to our loved ones?

The bus service in question is a local service, the discussion is about interstate buses. The local buses get fined if they don't do a certain time and stop at all the places specified and carry students at subsidised rates. If this is a way to make life better, don't complain when things go horribly wrong. The MVD is responsible for this, how come no one has any objection to the current set up?

I dread the same happening to anyone, not just family,I am saying there is no need to hail the cops for doing their jobs.

Originally Posted by honeybee

@avira_tk, I am sorry about having to pay fine for driving at 53kmph when the speed limit is 50kmph. I am sure we al are supposed to know that if the speed limit prescribed is 50kmph it really only means we can only go upto 50kmph and not one or half kmph above it. That's something basic one must understand when getting a driver's license.

Here is what we all must keep in mind. I don't know if the new smartcards carry this message.

Please, you get caught doing 53 when you are on the left lane, doing 90 at the same time on the right side and not stopping has no consequence. My dad paid the fine, please read the post carefully, I have not managed to measure kmph with 0.5 or even 1kmph accuracy, enlighten me about how you do it with an analog speedo.- 5% variation has no consequences in Bangalore as per the traffic cops.

Its a licensed activity hence a privilege, well thanks for pointing out the obvious it might help some others on the forum.

[ayadalam]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

I don't think a bus of any type can do 150 kph.

I've had a personal experience a couple of years ago on the Bangalore-Chennai highway where the government bus I was travelling in to Sriperumbudur was so easily overtaking scores of SUVs.

Initially I thought that other vehicles were moving slow and I found it strange since it was broad daylight and the roads were clear with little traffic.

Later I was told by the folks sitting in the front of the bus that the driver was consistently doing 140 KMPH. The bus in question was from the Volvo stable. The drive was so planted that people sitting inside the bus had no clue about the speed of the bus. That's when I realized the power and the stability of Volvos.

There is little surprise that the bus held by a private carrier would not run faster. The new age Volvos I guess could be capable of doing better that what I experienced.

However, there is no discounting on the fact that it is quite unsafe.

[kphilip]

Just an update about an accident which one of my friend clicked today morning.

A Kallada Volvo was capsized near thrissur.No idea about the number of people injured.

[katchkamalesh]

I wish I could vote for increasing the speed limit, my concern is regarding the nut behind the wheel/handle bar. There are many show offs and retards who will match the speed limit without considering the environment.



I feel that the government could only control the speed and not the environment (Eg. Jay walking, motorists cutting across the road from left lane to right lane without any indication etc). I agree that with the advancement in technology, the stopping distance has been reduced drastically but that doesn’t mean that one could go fast. Imagine a situation where there is a 120km speed limit and the Volvo is doing 120 and behind it is an Amby doing 100. If the Volvo had to stop it would stop but whereas for the amby, it would not be possible and there is high probability of an accident.


On the other hand, People must be educated about the good driving practices and they should be deciding upon on optimum speed. There must be rigorous process put in place for obtaining licenses.



In this case fines are not going to affect the business in a big way; it is just going to be a number in the P&L account. If the driver was supposed to pay the fine, never in his life would he cross the speed limit.


But for now, speed limits are the only way to refrain at least the middle class and the poor from speeding (fines create a dent in the monthly budget).

[AstonMartin]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Multiple speed limits on a two ......

I don't understand what you are trying to prove here. Anyone, the bus driver, your dad, a minister, all should be slapped a fine as and when they are found violating rules. Law does not and should not differentiate between poor and rich.

Now if you have a problem with the law, the appropriate forum to find a solution will be the approach your MP so that he can take it up in the parliament or file a special petition in Supreme Court.

We live in a democracy and bureaucracy is part and parcel of it. So learn to live with it. Without those pillars, the system is called Anarchy.

This incident is a prime example of how a police force should function. Half truths and point less arguments cannot alter that fact. To sum it up, law is above petty interests.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by AstonMartin

I don't understand what you are trying to prove here. Anyone, the bus driver, your dad, a minister, all should be slapped a fine as and when they are found violating rules. Law does not and should not differentiate between poor and rich.

Now if you have a problem with the law, the appropriate forum to find a solution will be the approach your MP so that he can take it up in the parliament or file a special petition in Supreme Court.

We live in a democracy and bureaucracy is part and parcel of it. So learn to live with it. Without those pillars, the system is called Anarchy.

This incident is a prime example of how a police force should function. Half truths and point less arguments cannot alter that fact. To sum it up, law is above petty interests.

You must be aware that the laws exist only on paper and they do everywhere, its the implementation that differentiates civilized societies from failed states. Exceptions to the law exist, representatives are exempt from prosecution and bureaucrats can't be prosecuted without prior permissions. The post refers to multiple speed limits on a single lane road, that is on paper already, which has achieved nothing.

As for approaching an MP and the Supreme court, at that point, I wouldn't care, most people with that level of access don't care about speeding buses or traffic cops. The law is for the plebs, always was and will be, it could be termed unfair.

The law is created to serve petty interests, hyperbole doesn't alter that either, but anyway you have a lot of company when it comes to unrelenting faith in the government to sort out our problems. The police force is functioning well if they are to be judged on fine collection, but revenue generation should be left to the excise department, just my opinion.

[honeybee]

So you don't want to follow the example of the more civilized societies, but want to harp on the police when it hurts you since you broke the law?

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by honeybee

So you don't want to follow the example of the more civilized societies, but want to harp on the police when it hurts you since you broke the law?

I am not a great fan of a nanny state, you are, we are not on the same page here. If the Kerala police take on tipper lorries or autos with the same bravado, I'll believe they are changing, this one stand out example doesn't make me proud or optimistic.

[GunMo]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The truth is that speed doesn't cause all accidents, I have given two examples about bus accidents I was in, experience suggests that an element of unpredictability and recklessness over speed as a cause.

The dangers at night multiply 10 fold- probably true for Delhi and other major cities, in most parts of Kerala the roads are deserted at night. I know because I have done a lot of driving post 10pm and the only risk is with careless pedestrians and trucks with contraband, to which the police turn a blind eye. The KSRTC bus drivers get a for their driving, it's better than most private cars and taxis.

I don't understand how it is safe in Kerala to over-speed in night time. It is exactly of these reasons (in bold above) and more that one need to exercise caution.

Further, you may not be the only driver who is oblivious to similar kind that are racing down the roads. Somebody mentioned a truck zipping past an intersection at high speed at midnight that needed 3 cops to intercept. Lucky there wasn't another truck with a similar moron at the wheel on that intersection.

Regardless of location, night time driving always needs more attention and caution compared to day time. I understand one could do higher average speed in night on a same stretch than day, however, that can't justify breakneck speeds.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I am not a great fan of a nanny state, you are, we are not on the same page here.

I am sure the tipper drivers and auto drivers are poorer than the bus drivers. So now you will allow the cops to exploit these poor people?

[IronH4WK]

guys, please don't get carried away with your emotions; lets discuss the topic at hand objectively

and seriously, stop with the personal attacks. jeez!

[GunMo]

Originally Posted by ayadalam

..
Later I was told by the folks sitting in the front of the bus that the driver was consistently doing 140 KMPH. The bus in question was from the Volvo stable. The drive was so planted that people sitting inside the bus had no clue about the speed of the bus. That's when I realized the power and the stability of Volvos.

There is little surprise that the bus held by a private carrier would not run faster. The new age Volvos I guess could be capable of doing better that what I experienced.

However, there is no discounting on the fact that it is quite unsafe.

The bus being stable and planted on a straight line is one thing, any sudden maneuver and the consequences thereafter is quite another. Of course, the laws of physics will surely catch up!

Huge bus with full load of people and luggage adds (actually multiplies) a lot to the momentum. High speed only makes it worse, as you'll need a huge breaking force to arrest that momentum and need that in a shorter time if something untoward happens.

The shorter and shorter time this force is applied, the greater and greater it impacts the people inside the bus (and sometimes outside as well).

Remember, a crash is nothing but a force applied in a fraction of a second to bring that momentum to zero.

Here's a video that explains it beautifully (quite lengthy one, but worth watching):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpiV2I_IRI

Drive safe! Cheers!!

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by GunMo

I don't understand how it is safe in Kerala to over-speed in night time. It is exactly of these reasons (in bold above) and more that one need to exercise caution.

Further, you may not be the only driver who is oblivious to similar kind that are racing down the roads. Somebody mentioned a truck zipping past an intersection at high speed at midnight that needed 3 cops to intercept. Lucky there wasn't another truck with a similar moron at the wheel on that intersection.

Regardless of location, night time driving always needs more attention and caution compared to day time. I understand one could do higher average speed in night on a same stretch than day, however, that can't justify breakneck speeds.

So you partly agree with higher speeds, something I was advocating. I am not suggesting 150kmph through MG road in Ernakulam at 5:30 PM, but around 90kmph on the new section of highway post 10PM or so, when most establishments are shut, the new stretches have fences and markings.
Cops have a hand in the latter highlighted bit and the malaise runs deep and its off topic. Careless or any kind of pedestrian is rare at night in Kerala, but all over the place in TN, my experience, don't ask me for documented proof.
The biggest danger at night is lack of sleep, after a few hours the driver has the same level of coordination as a drunk.

Originally Posted by honeybee

I am sure the tipper drivers and auto drivers are poorer than the bus drivers. So now you will allow the cops to exploit these poor people?

The phrase "nanny state" doesn't have anything to do with cops exploiting poor people.

[GunMo]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

..Careless or any kind of pedestrian is rare at night in Kerala, but all over the place in TN, my experience, don't ask me for documented proof.
..

Avira_tk, Whether it is a rare occurrence or happens all over the place doesn't matter. What would happen when you run into that rare occurrence is the question!

Actually, the rarity itself presents a danger as it brings complacency to the driver whereas the same driver will be more alert in places you described above.

If I understood correctly, what you are advocating is safe speed, but somehow your posts aren't conveying it that way. However, what law understands of safe speed is very different. Moreover, your 'safe speed' could be different from "my" safe speed. So, what's the best way to handle these?

Actually your own safe speed could be lower than the legal speed if the situation so demands. The converse could also be true, however, doing it would invite ramifications like what we are discussing.

But if the law of the land prohibits something and the police is enforcing it (no matter how cheap it is), criticizing that act is not going to help anybody.

In fact, it would only encourage reckless driving by more and more people as they feel emboldened by the public sympathy.