[volkman10]

Originally Posted by amolbh

One important question/observation:

In the video of Polo with 2 airbags, does the driver side dummy's head rebound and hit the B-Pillar?

It seems to have been edited out to hide it.

No it doesn't, the NCAP test, from all angles, was aired on NDTV.

Cheers!

[Shortsell]

Not sure if anyone here covered this. But I just heard on NDTV that post the NCAP results VW has decided to make front airbags as standard on all it's polo! Well done VW now that is what I call customer orientation and market commitment. Got to hand it where credit is due.

[aaggoswami]

While I agree that GOI should come up with very stiff laws for new vehicles, there are a few points which might be of considerable concern:

1) How the law is implemented. We have a lot of norms for road and traffic, but how many are actually implemented effectively ? Lets take case of BS norms as highlighted earlier. Is the fuel quality still upto the mark ? Any ways to prove it ? A car with recommended fuel of 95 RON might be available in market, but is fuel available ?

On similar note, GOI must ensure that any law it puts forward is implemented effectively. A lot of study might be required for this, specially w.r.t structural design and integrity in case of a crash. Airbags do not mean a safe car. I will never opt for airbag in Alto 800 or Wagon R or i10. Reason : The structure itself is not strong. Chances of survival in a car with strong structure lacking airbags are more than chances of survival in not so structurally strong car with airbags. However, before airbags, what needs to be implemented is ABS+EBD.

I am not against safety features, but, on similarly serious note, GOI should have license policy and eligibility reworked. The tests for obtaining license are very lame, their execution/implementation, even more so.

2) Given the current scenario, it is not possible to have a 3 or 4 or 5 stars out of 5 cars across the price range. IMO, the data of margins manufacturers are having is absent among us and for all practical reasons, it might not be commercially viable to have airbags in all cars across the available range. This might not allow a guy on 2 wheeler to afford 4 wheeler. Alto 800, Nano, i10, Wagon R, etc. are all aimed at guys moving from 2 to 4 wheelers. Did I forget Datsun GO ?

What can be achieved ( and must be focused on IMO ) is better engineering and stronger structure. Then also, the economic POV has to be maintained. An individual travelling on bike with his wife and kids is safer/better in Alto 800/Nano/Wagon R/i10/GO than being in a Platina/Pulsar/CBZ/Discover/Splendor/Passion, or in 3 wheeler or even buses which are mostly the rigid truck chassis ( how about their crash tests ? ) driven by insane drivers.

3) As GTO mentioned, bull bars must be banned. They are very dangerous for other road users also. And the cars fitted with bull bars must be sent to these safety tests for better awareness.

4) The list has to be more elaborate and inlcude the cars like Innova, Liva, Etios, Amaze, Brio, City, Fortuner, Safari, Scorpio, etc. Basically all BOF cars and asia specific cars like Brio and Amaze.

[mnrvokk]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

You almost contradict yourself, don't you?

I don't think I did.

I am against mandating that all cars have air bags etc as a rule enforced by the Govt as suggested by some posters on this forum.

I am all for mandating that some basic standardized tests be applied for all cars being sold and having the resulting information available for the consumer when they shop for cars. Let the buyer see what rating the car they want to buy gets and make a decision.

The above two things are both regulations but the former forces a feature down the throat of all consumers where as the latter is providing information to the consumers.

[srinih75]

Has anyone tried to compare the test of a Nano car in below link with the one where its reported to have failed? In my opinion even if the car survived the impact, it kind of flew away into another side, which could be to the other lane and another major tipper lorry coming and crushing it from another side!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvbPgOavw1s

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Reason : The structure itself is not strong. Chances of survival in a car with strong structure lacking airbags are more than chances of survival in not so structurally strong car with airbags. However, before airbags, what needs to be implemented is ABS+EBD.

I agree, the i10, Alto 800 had the A-pillar bent in that crash test which is the worst that can happen leave alone absence of the 'Airbags'.

If the base is not strong no amount of artificial protection would help!

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

3) As GTO mentioned, bull bars must be banned. They are very dangerous for other road users also. And the cars fitted with bull bars must be sent to these safety tests for better awareness.

Wont the bull-bar damage the testing equipment?! (The blue square thing that the car collides replicating another car on the opposite side). NCAP guys will ban Indian made cars if they see bull-bars.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

4) The list has to be more elaborate and inlcude the cars like Innova, Liva, Etios, Amaze, Brio, City, Fortuner, Safari, Scorpio, etc. Basically all BOF cars and asia specific cars like Brio and Amaze.

Yes, this still remains my question as to why only the Nano, Alto 800, i10, Figo and Polo were chosen! Swift, Innova, City, Verna all sell much than these cars that were selected (Except Alto 800 that tops the sales chart). It kind of leaves a hollow kind of opinion to the whole test and doesn't give a fair answer. I see more of Swift and Verna than the Nano and Polo.

Hope we have more tests like featuring all our cars (base model ONLY).

Originally Posted by mnrvokk

I am all for mandating that some basic standardized tests be applied for all cars being sold and having the resulting information available for the consumer when they shop for cars. Let the buyer see what rating the car they want to buy gets and make a decision.

Can we know what could those basic tests be that can be applied to give a fair idea how the car will behave in the event of an accident?

Originally Posted by srinih75

In my opinion even if the car survived the impact, it kind of flew away into another side, which could be to the other lane and another major tipper lorry coming and crushing it from another side!

IMO, the speed of the test was a bit higher as seen in the video, I am not sure but it looks more than 64 kmph. The Nano is a tiny thing and will keep bouncy when it runs normally only the road so such crash tests will fling the car here and there. Though it is very dangerous as it will put some other road user in trouble too (For no fault of his).

Anurag.

[mnrvokk]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Can we know what could those basic tests be that can be applied to give a fair idea how the car will behave in the event of an accident?

Anurag.

I am not sure if you are just being snippy or genuinely asking for more details. I am going to assume the latter and so, here are two results from a google search for "basic crash test scenarios" -

http://www.euroncap.com/testprocedures.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_test

The second link is very generic but you could spend some time and learn about all the specific details.

The point though is not what tests are termed "basic" or not. The point is, this is not something that has never been done. No need to re-create the wheel. All we need is to apply similar rules but adjust the parameters to determine what can best simulate a generic Indian road accident.

Not to forget the recent news that the GOI is getting this system off the ground very soon.

[arunkrishnan4]

Originally Posted by nishantbhatia84

I'm quite surprised at the results for the Figo! I've been involved in a massive 6-car pile up with my mom's Figo Zxi (no airbags) and had crashed into the vehicle in front at around 60kph with a Swift crashing into me from behind at the same speed. My car suffered considerable damage however was nowhere as much as the one in the video. The engine was undamaged.

It depends on what you crash into. In your case, it was another car, so the impact would be lesser than say, a concrete wall, median, protruding barricade or worse a commercial vehicle. And, in case of an head-on collision with another vehicle, the net speed doubles up!!! Considering that we drive behind trucks with/ without under bars on highways, we should see this in perspective of hitting a block of iron, as shown in video.

[vsathyap]

One mystery is that the quoted speed of 64kmph is quite not what it seems. From some laws of physics, the force of impact is determined by the velocity of the vehicles and their masses.

As there is some discussion about head on collisions, and the force of impact, and whether the cars could suffer more damage or the same amount of damage in such cases, here's a video clipping of an episode of Mythubusters which deals with exactly the same issue.

Makes for an interesting watch and see and learn how the laws of physics come into play in such high force collisions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8E5dUnLmh4

Thankfully, a head on impact of two cars, each @ 32kmph does not translate to the carnage seen in the NCAP tests.

Mods: In case this seems to be off topic, please do the needful.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Yes, this still remains my question as to why only the Nano, Alto 800, i10, Figo and Polo were chosen! Swift, Innova, City, Verna all sell much than these cars that were selected (Except Alto 800 that tops the sales chart). It kind of leaves a hollow kind of opinion to the whole test and doesn't give a fair answer. I see more of Swift and Verna than the Nano and Polo.

It seems they chose the cheapest car from the respective manufacturers.
IMO the cars that clock the maximum kilometers should have been chosen, (eg. Indica, Swift, Innova, Scorpio, etc). In India the probability of an accident is directly proportional to the number of Kms clocked by a particular model. Eventhough Alto 800 is the largest selling car, the sum of total kms clocked by all the Altos on road now, will be much lesser than the sum of what all the Swifts or the Innovas would have clocked.

[drjanakpatel]

As for all things in India I think we have to fight with the government to wake it up. Members of this forum can meet the concerned minister and try to put pressure publicly. Such efforts have worked in the past as in the case of electoral reforms.

[mi2n]

I feel that we are somewhat jumping the gun here. Before we start craving for passenger cars with safety features(Airbags, ABS, etc) here in India and blame the Government and manufacturers for such blasphemous lapses, I think there are more basic/grass root level road safety features than we need to first implement. No these does not need any intervention from Auto makers.
It is mostly the road design and conditions that cause accidents here in India. Unscientifically laid roads, ill maintained roads, random embankments, unscientifically designed speed breakers, ill planned intersections, poor traffic management, errant animals and pedestrians on highways to name a few.

Then there are vehicles illegally modified into metal fortresses, age old commercial vehicles, poorly designed and overburdened. Your chances of survival on collision with a few decade old state owned bus might just be as good in an Alto as in any 5 star NCAP rated car. The torn ripped metal sheets hanging from these buses and trucks cannot possibly be taken into consideration while designing safer cars. On this account though, I strongly feel commercial vehicle manufacturers should have an in-house body shop and such a critical job should not be entrusted to road side garages.

Then there is the human error element, with most people oblivious about the capabilities and limitations of the vehicle he is driving.

[samyakmodi]

i really wonder how the fiat cars would fare in this test.

considering they are built like a tank, it would be interesting to see the results

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by samyakmodi

i really wonder how the fiat cars would fare in this test.
considering they are built like a tank, it would be interesting to see the results

I guess the base variants would have performed in the same way as the Figo or Polo i.e.; passenger cabin intact, but could cause injury due to lack of airbags.

[vasudeva]

On a different note, with the kind of slow moving traffic seen on India, one has a high probability of crashing at slow speeds into a cycle or bullock-cart or a motorcycle. If that is what a car is crashing into, then the passenger in the car is likely to be safe and one can award an Indian 5 Star Rating.