[printh]

Guys as some BHPian had explained already,rather than "stars ",the actual score in injuries pertaining to different aged humans and human parts matter. The 'star' is just over-generalisation.

[jetti]

Amit,
You are very optimistic. People are not spending even 20K extra for safety. Sales staff tell customers that airbags deploy only over speed of 120kmph
It has been a long journey to come to even the stage where we are getting 2 airbags coming as standard or option across variants. Getting to Euro standards is a distant dream. Progress is being made, but slowly.

Originally Posted by amitc7

Yes you are right and upon further digging, the rating is for Latin ncap and not euro ncap.
so I'll wait till we get the euro ncap results or equivalent rating, I'm expecting a 2* or worse in the Euro ncap as it does not have ESP nor curtain bags nor pretensioner belts and obviously collision avoidance is also not there.
The above equipment and safety features are available on basic cars in Europe, so why can't we have them? I'm sure everyone will spend an extra 100000 for safety rather then sunroofs and leather seats

Read the entire report here http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...yota-Etios.pdf
The car has pretensioners.

[E30_325iSport]

Can anyone please explain why manufacturers are being blamed for offering their products without airbags etc?
Is it the carmaker's fault that in India our attitude towards safety has always been lax? It is built into our psyche, offering 2 airbags in a shopping trolley Hyundai i20 or Swift is not going to change that one bit (except satisfy members of a forum). For info please see our films (drivers/riders wearing a helmet or seatbelt), our attitude to caring for our own homes (how many of us employ trained and certified electricians/plumbers) etc etc.

Think about this:
--Airbags can kill on deployment (basically it is a grenade going off in your face) if the occupant is not properly restrained by other means in the first place (seat belt)
--Airbags can deploy on improper handling (for example if fiddled with 10years after purchase by a roadside garage)
--An airbag will do NOTHING to protect the occupants if the impact is severe enough

Above all, car companies are not charities. They make the products to adhere to the law of the land. If the law does not require seatbelts or airbags or whatever then the carmaker has ZERO obligation to provide those items.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

Can anyone please explain why manufacturers are being blamed for offering their products without airbags etc?

It's like saying we should have let Maggi sell here with their high msg and lead content this is a country of illiterate fools who don't know what's good for them so bringing about the changes that they may not want, but actually need, is just part of what it means to live in a democracy

[rajess_in]

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

Can anyone please explain why manufacturers are being blamed for offering their products without airbags etc?
.....

Let me put this thing in a different perspective.

Ever heard the case of the Ford Pinto (Read this link: http://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-m...he-ford-pinto/)

Now knowing it & fully aware that the chances of mortality is high on a non-airbag vehicle and having the means / technology to provide them (albeit a increase in cost) Why should one say they can't?

In the end the customer is the one who makes the decision and the he is fully responsible for it. But at least he needs the choice to make one. But if the argument is on the price rise due to including those, then the question comes to 'Are they keeping the same prices after launch?'

It all comes to the question of ethics - Are we going to give what the customer wants, rather than what is good for him?

Can I not change a customer who cries for a small increment because I have added an airbag but spends a larger amount on other accessories (ICE, decals, chromes, bull bars, etc? Or at least make the effort, even there is a chance I might fail! This is were the question of ethics comes, are we going to do the crime since there is no law prohibiting it or someone watching over or just simply hold ourselves from crossing the line just because we are aware of it.

[E30_325iSport]

Originally Posted by rajess_in

Let me put this thing in a different perspective.

Ever heard the case of the Ford Pinto (Read this link: http://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-m...he-ford-pinto/)

The Pinto incident was one of gross mismanagement i.e wilful cover up of a design flaw. It is totally different to to what we are discussing here.

Let me come back to one of my original points:
--how many of us use child seats
--how many of us use trained/approved tradesmen like electricians and plumbers?
Let me take a wild guess and say less than 10% of us would do so.

It is EASY to blame a carmaker, that's why we do it. Path of least resistance, its what we all take.

I agree that customers should be provided the choice of products but there is no use of providing choice just for the sake of it.

Our energies as a community should focus on changing the law and legislation. It is the only way we can bring about true change. If the legislation changes so will our road infrastructure, which will then automatically impact everything else (this comment is aimed specifically at those who keep saying 'its offered in Europe so why not here', the average speeds in Europe are FAR higher than we can ever hope to achieve in India with our road infrastructure).

[groom]

Today Global NCAP released more crash test results for India Cars, the horror story continues.

http://www.globalncap.org/results/

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

.....Our energies as a community should focus on changing the law and legislation. It is the only way we can bring about true change........

Our country has possibly the most elaborate legal jurisprudence on the planet (there are laws against public urination too....), but it has not changed the ground level reality. Until and unless there is prompt & speedy implementation of the legal provisions for law-breakers, new legislation will just add to already overflowing waste-paper baskets. Crony-ism and nepotism is endemic, a way of life here. Unless that goes, it will just be a case of same old, same old. I know that's an awfully cynical view-point, but how far removed from facts is it?

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by shashanka

Our country has possibly the most elaborate legal jurisprudence on the planet (there are laws against public urination too....), but it has not changed the ground level reality. Until and unless there is prompt & speedy implementation of the legal provisions for law-breakers, new legislation will just add to already overflowing waste-paper baskets. Crony-ism and nepotism is endemic, a way of life here. Unless that goes, it will just be a case of same old, same old. I know that's an awfully cynical view-point, but how far removed from facts is it?

In spite of all the problems, we still love India and choose to live here. We owe it to ourselves, our loved ones and the future generations to try and make a better India in the future.

Coming back to automotive safety, we will not rest until we get world class automobiles in India which are in no way flimsier or unsafe than the same models sold in the developed world.

We will effect the change one day, sooner or later.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by groom

Today Global NCAP released more crash test results for India Cars, the horror story continues.

Thank you for taking the time to collate the results/screenshots. A couple of things that your post helped me visualize are:

a. Renault-Nissan seem to have some sort of institutional laxity with regard to safety. Notice now the floorpan/underbody of their cars crumpled. Very few cars (even the Eeco) seems to have that issue.

b. Protrusion of the frontal compartment into the passenger area is low in the products from Toyota and Ford (the Ford does very poorly w.r.t. the Toyota because of the lack of airbags).

In the other thread, @GTO mentioned that the only option for people seeking a safe car on a limited budget (<4 lakhs) remains a preowned car. He is right, but I am hoping that the appalling results will either spur the manufacturers (solely to avoid bad publicity, make no mistake, they'll penny pinch as much as they can) to change their engineering practices, or turn the wheels of bureaucracy to make ARAI crash testing standards similar to NCAP.

[Captain Haddock]

I think consumer awareness could be the key, it took a Ralph Nader to force Detroit to make safe cars. In India it's a bit Complicated because cheaper cars like nano or kwid replaces the family scooter, which is pretty unsafe than any thing on 4 wheels. I think good structural integrity should be made mandatory, airbags should be the next priority. ABS may not play a big role in lighter cars. It's quite strange that none of our legislatures are concerned about this, the auto manufacturers are a powerful lobby and unprecedented consumer action is needed to make our netas turn the screws on the auto Giants.

[blackwasp]

I think, the govt has a key role to play here. Just like giving tax exemptions to hybrid cars, why not give 1-2% vat waiver for cars meeting standard global norms?

This will give the manufacturer the motive to make safe cars.

[samaspire]

That is the old Figo in the tests. What is the point of testing that car, when it is no longer sold in India.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by samaspire

That is the old Figo in the tests. What is the point of testing that car, when it is no longer sold in India.

Those are images from the prior test. The Swift, the old Figo, the Etios Liva etc. are from that batch. I think it makes for a great comparison though (also for folks buying pre-owned cars).

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

...... It's quite strange that none of our legislatures are concerned about this, the auto manufacturers are a powerful lobby and unprecedented consumer action is needed to make our netas turn the screws on the auto Giants.

+1, I agree. I'd just like to add that in the first instance the netas should be made to see that it is in their long-term interest (and not the short-term benefits of sitting in the lap of of the industry lobby) to accept the view of the consumer fora, i.e. the public at large.
The worry is that our netas (the professional netas, that is) have had 69+ years to refine their technique of playing the industry against the public, & reaping the benefits from both sides - and once again laughing all the way to the money-laundering market.