[TheLizardKing]

Originally Posted by Tushar

However, they wear helmets at least to avoid a fine if nothing else.

I disagree slightly. Bike riders who are wearing a helmet just to avoid fines wear it only when they are approaching an intersection etc. where there is a good chance that cops will be present. Even then they just slip them on and don't tighten the clasp, which is as unsafe as not wearing a helmet at all. And how many of these helmets do you think are ISI compliant? I may sound heartless but if such a biker dies, I would say that he had it coming.

Safety awareness in India is low. That is a fact of life that no one can change. But using that as an excuse to not provide safety kit is plain ridiculous. The 1-5% of us who are safety conscious and willing to pay for it (and not for alloys and all the other fancy stuff) are the real victims here.

I should know. I have two cars and I had to buy the highest variant both times because I didn't want to compromise on safety. I am no Lord Falkland, and I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. But I am fortunate that I could afford the highest variant. There are so many who pay with their lives because they cannot.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

I think this poll is flawed. It is hard to believe that 2/3rd of cars here have airbags+abs. People driving cars without safety features would refrain from taking the poll itself. Very few would want to admit such things.

And yet almost 30% of the respondents have selected "Seatbelts only". If that is the state on a forum like ours, what do you think the number out there on the Indian roads is? 50%? 60%?

[jagzrk]

Originally Posted by TheLizardKing

And yet almost 30% of the respondents have selected "Seatbelts only". If that is the state on a forum like ours, what do you think the number out there on the Indian roads is? 50%? 60%?

I don't understand why it is shocking or surprising. If budget buyers looking to buy a car under 4 lac would have the option of ABS and Airbags under 25K which the real cost is without taking the additional load of accessories worth 1 lac they would have seriously considered it.

The manufacturers apathy over the issue should be shocking to us. Better, as i time and again suggest, lets start a thread by listing out safe cars which offer these safety features from base variant at a reasonable price. Why aren't we starting this? We should deem the cars unsafe if they don't offer safety packs at base variants. When one of the most esteemed automotive community in India starts doing this, I am sure, some one will take notice.

[Altocumulus]

I just got the delivery of my Ritz Zxi last week and one of the main reason for me opting for it are the safety features. Everyone asked me to go for the Swift however I was just getting a Swift Vxi at that price. The Ritz build quality seemed to be far better as well and the car also weighs heavier than the swift even though the dimensions are less.

Hopefully, the german genes in the Ritz will do better in the tests.

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by TheLizardKing

And yet almost 30% of the respondents have selected "Seatbelts only". If that is the state on a forum like ours, what do you think the number out there on the Indian roads is? 50%? 60%?

I look at it the other way. 68% BHPiens have checked the safest option which I feel is encouraging as against 10-15% (my guess) numbers on Indian roads having airbags + ABS.

[alpha1]

In real life:
1) almost no one has a long term vision and
2) almost no one cares about events that have very low chances of occurring

[Tushar]

Originally Posted by TheLizardKing

I disagree slightly. Bike riders who are wearing a helmet just to avoid fines wear it only when they are approaching an intersection etc. where there is a good chance that cops will be present. Even then they just slip them on and don't tighten the clasp, which is as unsafe as not wearing a helmet at all. And how many of these helmets do you think are ISI compliant? I may sound heartless but if such a biker dies, I would say that he had it coming.

True. Many of these helmets are essentially plastic utensils, but I'd like to think some, if not all two wheel riders are wearing decent quality helmets. The point being that many of these regulations start off as a law, but eventually the people themselves realize why they were introduced. Riders who wear helmets purely for the cops' benefit deserve whatever is coming to them *Natural selection*.

The government needs to be more serious with the issue. At the end of the day, Indian road accident statistics reflect badly on the administration. In all honesty, I personally believe a legitimate driver training program takes precedence over ABS or airbags when it comes to safety.

[TheLizardKing]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

This will make more sense if we had the option of (Seatbelts + ABS) as I believe most cars have ABS than airbags.

Please note that the mods have now added the "Seatbelts + ABS" option to the poll now.

[roy_libran]

Well, I voted for Option no. 4, and join the majority, so far.
In fact this was the single most important parameter for me, when selecting the Ecosport Titanium AT last year.

[Dr.Abhi]

no customer in India had ever demanded to ban Leaded Petrol or compulsion of Catalytic converters. like bharat stage 1-4 phased implementation, government should gradually raise the bar for safe cars like 1. safe body shell should be the first priority because even airbags are worthless in tin built cars. 2. then ABS and then 3. Airbags. and that should be the basic safety figment in a car. even my car is without any safety feature, but I didn't want to buy other geeky features available in high end variants along with ABS and airbags. if govt. makes safety features mandatory then car manufacturers will have no option and they have to provide it even on base variant.

[gops2009]

Really heartening to see a dedicated thread and so much of focus on safety, it is not too may times that such a discussion has happened on this forum with this level of participation. While I do see the perspectives and point of view of some of the BHPians the fact still remains that a majority of us, Indian's never look at the aspect of safety when planning to purchase a car. FE, Resale Value, Power, Looks , after sales service are the prime factors looked at. Not that these are not important, but if we were to evaluate these also keeping safety and build quality, would that not make more sense?

While this may not have been a very pressing topic in India ( is it now?)say a decade back, the increase in number of road users , better roads and higher average speeds make this a serious topic to address today. Building and selling safer cars is just one part of addressing this issue.

This needs to be combined with several other initiatives

Here are some thoughts, I would like to share with fellow BhPians and have comments and views on the same

• Safety features like seat belt, ABS and airbags should be considered basic hygiene factors, but even before that there needs to be a structural integrity rating, akin to energy efficiency ratings for appliances; provided for each model /variant introduced , this will make it easy
for the general public to understand and use when evaluating what to buy.

• Conduct road safety and safe driving skills workshop and certify drivers , this certification should provide owner- drivers some benefits like discounts in insurance premium ( for this to work) akin to discounts provided by insurers if one is a member of a body like AAI

• Only vehicles that have a structural integrity rating above a certain threshold are allowed to ply on expressways and toll roads, non compliance to which will attract severe penalties

• Excise duty and tax sops should be linked to safety rating and safety equipment on board the vehicle

• Vehicle insurance should have a component based on safety of the vehicle where the premium goes up exponentially where the rating is low. This with the point mentioned previously will ensure that the cost of ownership of a car with safety features will be close to or lesser than that of one with poor rating

• Acts like violation of one way rule, driving in the direction opposite to the oncoming traffic, Drunken driving and such willful offences should be treated as criminal offences and not under traffic offences

• All of these need to be enforced strictly and fairly without favor or discrimination ( this would be a challenge indeed)
While, I’m sure that there will be several questions on how this can be implemented or loopholes in the points mentioned above, with like minds we certainly can build on this to make this something far more practical and provide these as recommendations to the law makers from Team-BHP’s end

[zenren]

Originally Posted by Ricci

I'm also against the government enforcing things that affect only me, like helmets and seatbelt use. It's one thing to enact laws to compel manufacturers to provide seatbelts, another to compel me to wear them. It's not the government's job to save me from myself - only from others.

I had a lengthy debate on this with my brother and my dad a few months ago on whether the government has the right to intervene and force us to wear helmets and seatbelts in the interest of our own safety. What we concluded was that no individual is totally independent of the society, irrespective of how much we earn or are worth.

Here are a few points that came out of the discussion:

• Since suicide attempt is a criminal offense in our country, no individual has the right to take his own life. So the government has the right to intervene.
• In case of an accident where an individual is seriously injured, the government machinery related to public health is required to pitch in for providing necessary treatment and attending to that individual as an emergency case over someone else who is made to wait.
• The costs that would come to the government and insurance companies in terms of compensation would increase in case the injuries sustained are higher due to the absence of helmets or seat belts.
• Life and medical insurance companies in applicable cases would be required to pay higher amounts due to this, leading to increase in premium in future for everyone.
• The other driver that hit you or his insurance company would be charged more as third party insurance payout since you didn't wear seat belts and hence ended up getting serious injury instead of a few scratches. So it is indirectly impacting them too.
• In case you die in that accident, the case automatically gets a higher severity due to no mistake of the other driver. Even if he might have caused the accident, your injuries could have been much less sever if you had adhered to safety precautions. In that case, it would be unfair to hold him accountable for the serious injuries caused to you.
• If you die in the incident and you were the sole earning member of your family, the burden of looking after your family would become the responsibility of the extended family in particular and the society in general.

[gops2009]

Originally Posted by jagzrk

I don't understand why it is shocking or surprising. If budget buyers looking to buy a car under 4 lac would have the option of ABS and Airbags under 25K which the real cost is without taking the additional load of accessories worth 1 lac they would have seriously considered it.

Here too I would believe that it is a mindset similar to what prevailed when Ratan Tata suggested a 1 lakh car...safety equipment too can be designed and manufactured to make it affordable for every one without having to shell out a fortune if one were to take the frugal engineering path, the way Tata approached the design of the Nano

[zenren]

Originally Posted by TheLizardKing

And yet almost 30% of the respondents have selected "Seatbelts only". If that is the state on a forum like ours, what do you think the number out there on the Indian roads is? 50%? 60%?

The huge numbers I see in the ABS+2 airbags option only means there are a lot of members in the forum who change their cars every 4 years and buy a brand new car. For those who don't change their cars frequently, the safety pack would come only as part of the next upgrade, whenever it happens.

There are a lot of folks in this forum who keep their cars for a much longer period. In my case, the last new car purchase in the family was in 2008 and the Swift VDi with ABS was the maximum we could get, thanks to the absence of ZDi variant back then. i20, Punto and other cars that we see on road now were yet to be launched back then and there were no other options for a diesel hatch in those days, except Indica and Palio Stile which didn't have safety kit either.

Sedans like Dzire and Fiesta had these features but my dad was not comfortable driving a big-booted car and such a purchase would have meant a stationary safe sedan in the car porch while our Zen was out on highway doing long trips. So we had to make do with the ABS option.

Last purchase I did was a 2008 Swift VXi for myself in 2010 after searching around for over 6 months, where it had to be a used petrol hatch- used petrol due to low running coupled with huge resale value of diesel and huge depreciation for petrols, hatch due to parking constraints at where I stayed and resale value thanks to the potential for a relocation sale due to a move to another state soon and the complications of the road tax hassles for moving a new car across states. I looked around for a used ZXi to be available in used car market but couldn't find one even after 6 months.

Would I sell off my Swifts and buy a new car with safety kit now? No way. I'll probably wait till 2016 to see the crash tested and structurally safe options and then make a purchase. In case any of the cars start giving any problems, I'll probably go with a lateral upgrade and wait till 2018 - again there are very few options with the safety kit out there in the used car market.

[schakra]

Bought my first car last year, Wagon-R VXI. Always wanted to buy a car with ABS and airbags but the waiting period for VXI with these features was more than a month and with just driver side airbag; however we couldn't wait so long as we had planned a few short road trips. I repent our decision of not buying a car with these safety features till date but have decided that whenever I upgrade next, it will be a top end with all the safety features.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

I think this poll is flawed. It is hard to believe that 2/3rd of cars here have airbags+abs. People driving cars without safety features would refrain from taking the poll itself. Very few would want to admit such things.

I would think the results are more in line with the truth because :
1) Most cars coming out today have ABS/airbag variants available and with the crowd here being comparatively more aware than the layman, it would be logical for folks to opt for the more safer options.

2) And except for some snobs, I doubt people on a car-forum would be ashamed of admitting what car they drive, even if it is an M800. So why lie for a mere online poll ?

But what polls do not provide is info on the decision making process ie. how the safety features came aboard in the first place - did they come as a result of a conscious decision or was it merely incidental ? Did they come along because someone wanted the alloys/spoiler/steering-audio-controls available only in the top variant or the alloys were incidental since he was firm on getting safety features.

Eg. if a guy has a budget of 7lakhs he could either buy a new top-spec hatch (Punto / Swift) just because it has safety features or for the same money could buy a beat-up 2nd hand Civic just to show off that he is driving a higher segment car and end up getting abs/airbags in the process. Both can/will tick the "Two airbags + ABS" option in the poll, though the decision-making process was way different.