|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
![]() | #46 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,031
Thanked: 3,246 Times
| ![]() Quote:
Again irrelevant. I am not paying European price for any mainstream hatchback that is sold in India. Not all of them have compromised structural integrity. Then what is your logic? | |
![]() |
|
![]() | #47 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palakkad/Coimbatore
Posts: 1,185
Thanked: 929 Times
| ![]() Quote:
Lets say a model with creature comforts adds Rs. 20K and addition of safety features adds 20K. Now if a guy (from a place where no ABS or Airbags are required, as per your post) goes to buy the basic car. But looking at the creature comforts for another 20K, he decides to buy the model with creature comforts - My question is, would you tell this guy "no no no, you are supposed to buy only a bare basic car, no additional features are required by you!!" The argument may be convoluted - but think a little bit, this is what is happening. People are willing to spend more on other features at the cost of safety. We cannot differentiate between a guy buying a bare basic car and a guy spending a wee bit more, opting for comfort over safety Since the safety features like ABS and Airbags are already available and the extra cost is going to be the same as adding a power steering and air conditioner, wouldn't you think that the small risk of a cow jumping across a moving car and deploying the airbag a risk worth taking? The roads I drive (you must be very familiar with, for sure) see a lots of cows and other domestic friends moving around - am yet to encounter or hear a situation where a car hit a cow causing a fatal accident or making the airbags to deploy!!. (Camel falling on cars in Dubai or Moose falling on cars in Europe killing people are more common) No one is saying that we should forget about better infrastructure or better public transport facilities.But at the same time, why should we say no to a feature that is already available and is also proven to protect people? And what do you think the addition in EMI for an increase of 40K in the basic price would be? | |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #48 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: cochin
Posts: 1,196
Thanked: 979 Times
| ![]() For those of you who are wondering whether the addition of airbags etc make a variant prohibitively more expensive, here is a link to a thread discussing the same on this forum. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-debunked.html It would be an ideal situation where all cars are fitted with abs and airbags and structural safety not pruned down for India specific models. Will accidents still happen? Of course they will - people will still be killed or get injured. The roads will continue to be terrible - dangerous driving - barging two wheelers - cows - goats - hens will still be on our pock marked roads in many places. But despite all that I sincerely believe that some lives will be saved because of additional safety features on cars in spite of the badly constructed roads, the chaotic traffic, poor driving manners and all that. And I believe that every life saved is not just a statistic - definitely not to that person's family members. I might be called sanctimonious or 'self-righteous' but I would rather spend money on safety features than a super music system or alloys etc. ![]() As I said earlier on this thread - power steering and air-con were considered luxury not in the too distant past. Today even the Alto or a Nano has them. |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #49 | |||
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]() Wow! what logic Mr. RCB ![]() I'm at loss for words and others have already told what I needed to say Quote:
It wont make a difference to their views about safety(Clearly known with his comments), the quality of their cars(it may become more lighter, unsafe however) or their sales volumes! Quote:
Quote:
![]() Source: http://articles.economictimes.indiat...-suzuki-ambadi Last edited by hemanth.anand : 14th November 2014 at 14:31. | |||
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #50 | ||||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Coimbatore / MENA
Posts: 779
Thanked: 1,238 Times
| ![]() Quote:
Quote:
I'm not inclined to answer to such a tone. I could tell you to re-read my posts and deduce, but that would be rude and asking too much. Quote:
Maybe we can then start a thread on airbag deployment sensitivity in rural India. Quote:
Cheers | ||||
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #51 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 5,886
Thanked: 2,484 Times
| ![]() While I find most of your logic to be very strange and belabored I would like to respond to one of your very self righteous and indignant sounding question. This is often employed by people who otherwise have little to substantiate and want to cause confusion in the ranks. Invoke the poor, raise a stink talking about the downtrodden etc. As I see, here also people have generally given this question a wide berth. Quote:
You of course will throw all those consideration to the winds in the name of the empowered poor. In fact, I am sure you will also argue for planes with minimal seat but with maximum space for standees with hanging handgrips so that costs go down and more and more people can travel by air. Or you will also argue to get done with building doors for the houses as it is now proven that the best of locks can be anyhow picked by the burglars given a little time. Considering that leaves the doors then futile for real security it is always better to have houses without doors as that can reduce some costs. Do you agree? Or does my logic sounds incredulous to you? If it is the latter then believe me you are almost sounding the same to everyone else. As for pricing of the safety devices like airbag modules, ABS etc., nobody asked for a rockbottom price etc. That's you thrusting your logic unnecessarily on others. Pricing is always a factor of demand and supply. Today most of these modules are imported. If these get mass scale adoption sooner than later you will have multitude of manufacturers starting units in this country. Prices will anyhow come down. Of course, the volumes will anyhow drive down the prices further. | |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #52 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Coimbatore / MENA
Posts: 779
Thanked: 1,238 Times
| ![]() Quote:
Quite indignant of you as well. Quote:
Quote:
Incredulous part is how you have understood EVERYONE so well and so quick and you feel on posting on their behalf. | |||
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #53 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,260
Thanked: 650 Times
| ![]() While Bhargava's argument is disingenuous, I do think making cars safer is only one aspect of the broader issue. Adhering to traffic rules, dedicated lanes for buses and/or two wheelers and more traffic cops are all needed. I also agree that demand is so elastic at the entry level that the slightest change can skew buying decisions. MSIL should know - the best sales are of their entry-level and non-airbag variants. But then this is the same company that didn't think seat belts were needed until they were regulated. Unfortunately, as has been said many times before, this forum isn't representative of the common car buyer in India. |
![]() | ![]() |
|
![]() | #54 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 972
Thanked: 1,029 Times
| ![]() Personally I feel making ABS/Airbags mandatory is akin to putting a band-aid over a fractured arm. The main issue is the people's mentality on the roads and the severe lack of infrastructure. I am not talking lack of roads, but the potholed nature of the existing ones especially along with other issues mentioned earlier in the forum/thread. Another point is about how much it costs to repair the Airbags post deployment. If that is too high, then it is an obstacle as well. We already have members in the forum highlighting about how some cars which were repaired after a crash, were done so without proper fixation of the airbags. How are we going to control it? This is another knee-jerk reaction without proper research/trail just like the ban on sun-films by the SC. I am all for safety; if it means making ABS/Airbags optional across cars sold. I leave the choice to the buyer as to whether he chooses safety or equipments for his car. After all it's a free nation. |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #55 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: MH-04
Posts: 1,345
Thanked: 1,144 Times
| ![]() Very lousy statements by the top brass of MSIL. What are they thinking? Where they should have taken the onus of admitting their mistake by way of correction, they are busy criticizing some positive steps a responsive Govt. is taking towards road safety. In fact, a Rs. 30,000/-(yes, thats the incremental cost one will incur if a mass production car like Alto/Wagon R have compulsory airbags and ABS) is not more than the life of a biker. Consider this, 30,000 over 5 years will be 6K per year + 10% Interest on reducing basis. This is like 6600/year= Rs. 550/- per month. Lower than the price of a Meal for 2 at Dominos. So, Mr. Bhargava justifies that this Rs. 550/- will turn away motorists to buy a car. If A=B and B=C, it just translates few simple things:
Very disappointing approach!! |
![]() |
![]() | #56 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bombay
Posts: 325
Thanked: 135 Times
| ![]() Why does Maruti of Bhargava decide whether Safety is important of not. Have Airbags/ABS as optional package with every version and not restricted to top-end version. People can opt for Safety with Mid-range or low-range version as well based on their budget requirements. Give People the OPTION to CHOOSE.... SIMPLE !! But Mr. Bhargava there is no compensation for a inferior Chassis/Frame as detected in the NCAP Tests.. How do you answer that ? Cheers.. MKP |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #57 | ||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 5,886
Thanked: 2,484 Times
| ![]() Quote:
And I explained why... You deftly left all that part out and again decided to focus on an inane thing. Quote:
I think you can see who is thrusting what. When you are the only guy going when everyone else seems to be coming back then you are headed down the wrong side of the road. Quote:
![]() Quote:
I think you are getting the gist. This once you left all my queries related to similar logic around yours and again started talking on non issues. Next time around please be mindful when you unnecessarily try to drag in issues which are not relevant or are secondary or tertiary to the immediate issue at hand you will be challanged and you will need to substantiate those (in this case, it is the minimal safety requirements of modern cars; things like the poor and their right to drive etc do not at all come into the picture here). Hope that helps. Last edited by Zappo : 14th November 2014 at 18:27. | ||||
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #58 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() "Many people live in shanties which have no fire safety measures, so whats the point of mandating them in high rises". So what say? Pointless to have safety features in high rises because shanties do not have them? This is the argument Maruti Chief is making. IF he was a real estate developer, he would say "Lot of people cannot afford basic housing and live in shanties which have no fire safety. We should first give all of them homes, before mandating basic fire safety norms in high rises". You can give any justification. For example, a Datsun go is safer than a cycle or a bike. But does it matter? Just because in many places tap water is dirty, we should let bottled water companies sell you dirty water? Just because many vegetables in local market contain pesticides, we should let processed food companies sell rotten or expired food? Just because counterfeit medicines cause countless deaths all over the company, we should allow sale of drugs banned for inexcusable side effects abroad? This is the argument which he is making. Does not make sense to me. |
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #59 | ||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'd like to ask Bhargava for his comments on the poor crashworthiness of the Indian Swift. Shudder to think how their cheaper hatchbacks (WagonR, Celerio, Alto etc.) will fare in the same crash test. Leave aside airbags & ABS, how about making crash-worthy cars first? Or for that matter, equip your cars with good brakes? Remember the Swift L / V variant brakes? Oh, I'm sorry. That's going to cost you money too, Mr. Bhargava. Lastly, why not give customers the choice? Make ABS & Airbags available on each model & variant. Let the customers decide. And while you're at it, educate them on the importance of these features too (just like you taught us about the importance of fuel economy). End of the day, what can you expect? Maruti had opposed Euro emission norms in the nineties (which they eventually adhered to) and diesel engines (which they eventually got). Quote:
Safer cars are even more important in a country with poor road infrastructure. Quote:
| ||
![]() | ![]() |
![]() | #60 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 972
Thanked: 1,029 Times
| ![]() Quote:
While I am insistent that ABS/Airbags should be optional across range, I agree that the crash worthiness of the car should not be impacted. Maruti should make structural modifications or not make them (removal etc) inline with the European models. They have a stronghold over the minds of the Indian public with their sales/service exp. There is no need to feel insecure about their position and become defensive. Hope it happens. What it will also mean is that they sold sub par cars until now which might open them up to law suits. Wonder how they will tackle that ![]() If there is any regulation body in India for safety of cars, I wish they speak up and clarify the stand on the method of tests conducted for cars sold in India and if Swift has indeed been declared fit to be sold here according to regulations. All we have been hearing is from the Manufacturers and the Public but nothing from these bodies. | |
![]() | ![]() |