[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by GTO

The cost of airbags & ABS should be no more than Rs. 20,000, especially if volumes go up. I remember a BHPian who worked with the auto industry providing this number on another thread. That's less than 10% of the cost of the cheapest Maruti.

When NHTSA mandated side curtain airbags, the estimated cost increase to MFR was 33$ only

[rki2007]

Buying a car with ABS and Airbags or otherwise is the choice of the buyer. If he wants to risk his life, he can do so. It is just like doing an adventure without proper safety kit .No one is concerned about that. It is a well informed decision.

But the basic question here is the car built quality, the vehicle structure, the chassis quality of the so called great Maruti cars. The main concern is about the flimsy built quality of the chassis body.

There are some idiotic people in this Country like my friend who says " I will wait for the Swift, whatever is the waiting period or the cost". The reason is because, it is selling, so it is a good car

I can't educate these mad men. Maruti will outsell all other cars manufacturers and put their papad quality cars on road till they find a sensible, non-emotional, non-brand loyal, wise decision making buyer.

Clearly the statement of Mr. Bhargava shows his attitude and just money making mind. Utterly cheap!!!!

At 12.5 L odd on road price of Ciaz, the boot when closed, sounds like two pieces of lowest rated gauge of metal rubbed together. Thats all i can say.

[4x4addict]

Bhargava, the dinosour from the socialist days of Nehruvian India should be put to pasture immediately. Swift one of the most popular models in MSIL stable flunks the crash test and this is all this dimwit has to say??

Air Bags combined with ABS shouldn't cost more than 30K for a high volume manufacturer like MSIL. Someone of Bhargava's stature should be a flag bearer who should espouse the cause of making Indian cars safer. Hasn't he made enough money in corporate life? I am glad he is closer to the grave. I shudder to think of the state and safety of Maruti cars if this bozo was still in the peak of his career.

Originally Posted by gthang

Imagine any village in India. A guy with an Alto driving around in the backroads, and a buffalo/camel/donkey decided to bump his car with their behind. Will the airbags go off? Should it go off? What would he do if it went off?

Are you serious with this post? Please read up on how an air bag works. Forget a donkey, even if you get hit by a track from side, your front air bags are not likely to inflate.

I have a A-Star with Air Bags & ABS and have been using it many remote places. I haven't been lucky with Donkeys but a tree stump actually hit my bumper but Air Bags and ABS are still intact.

[rohanjf]

It is sad to hear such comments from someone whose employer has the biggest percentage of market share. I think it all comes down to psychology. As we grow old, we fail to keep up with ever-evolving technology.

I had an opportunity to work with an Indian steel major a couple of years ago, which has a sister concern in automotive industry. It was really difficult to show their employees (mostly 50+ years old) how latest Enterprise Resource Planning tools can easily automate their processes and make their work simpler. Every time we tried explaining the product features to them, they would compare it with Microsoft Excel. They even went on to show their business processes on Excel, and asked us to replicate that behaviour on SAP.

Maruti Suzuki is no different. The top management do not get a chance to educate themselves on latest technologies. They feel offended when someone half their age tries to teach them something. They have been in their profession for so long, and hold so much pride, that they treat constructive feedback as criticism.

[wilful]

Methinks the internet-social media are very important tools for airing and shaping public opinion in today's world. The common citizen (like me) has very little chance of airing his views to a corporate honco like Bhargava or being able to effect any kind of changes much as he would like to. This is a place where we can all express our different or similar views as the case may be. I am certain that car companies keep track on debates on well known forums like TEAM-BHP.

[Biraj]

Originally Posted by gthang

Whoa!! Before you guys think I am a Communist for making pro-poor statements, please realize I making statements in support of a Capitalist enterprise.

That's because I am a realist.

It's really not being pro-poor. When a car (Nano) was launched for the 'poor' (termed as the cheapest), it didn't sell. The difference between price of commuter segment bikes and entry-level hatchbacks is so high that an addition of 30-40 K wouldn't make any impact on purchase decision. Every year, the costs increase (due to inflation, steel price, etc). Do they think about people moving to two-wheelers before raising the costs?

This thread is about the same old attitude with which many babus in India work. They won't change till they are forced to change. The worst part is that they are trying to justify their apathy towards safety by stating weird statistics from EU countries. To me, the fact that the body-shell of the cars was found unstable is a bigger concern than the lack of Airbags and ABS. Fine, they don't want to charge people for additional features (which they do for stickers and music systems), at least offer acceptable quality ( of frame/steel/structure) for what people are paying.

[Nilesh5417]

Ridiculous argument from someone who belongs to the countrys biggest car manufacturer! He isn't doing India any service by providing cheap cars. That was Ratan Tata's vision and he sounds idiotic trying to hijack it and use it as a lame argument on the safety topic.

I would so like to find what %ge of people survive an accident in Maruti cars vs. the rest of the brands esp. europeans! Or atleast the %ge of fatalities in accidents for cars with or without airbags / abs? Maybe numbers will be the wake up call this guy needs?

And it sounds even more ridiculous for MSIL to talk abt cost increases when there is so much innovation happening to make technologies from luxury cars cheaper and more accessible. If MSIL can work towards rolling out the cheapest AMT car in the country, AMT really just being convenience, what stops them from working with airbag specialists to work out some innovation to make airbags affordable in even the bare bones variant? Also, given the size of the market and the number of cars MSIL themselves sells, airbags should become cheaper in a couple of years time due to increased production no? This is why all the social responsibility acts the industry puts up look like a sham cause once in a while, someone like Mr.Bhargava opens his mouth to show us how little they care about anything except money.

Governments & regulations seem necessary because if we leave the world to industry and businessmen, everything including human life will have a price tag.

[S_U_N]

So, is the conclusion that a Maruti is as safe as (or no safer than) a two-wheeler?

Then why put down 9 lacs on a Maruti Ciaz?
Just buy two powerful bikes and use the remaining money on safety gear and free fuel, no?



Guys buying the latest generation of Maruti cars should insist on crash test reports from the sales advisor.

Edit: I am curious, what is RC Bhargava's daily ride?

[ritz3645]

An example I wish to highlight is Smart Fortwo.

It is engineering with a focus on safety.

http://m.nydailynews.com/autos/lates...icle-1.1307474

[SS-Traveller]

5 pages and 70 posts later, what lessons do we learn from the discussions?

Those rooting for safer cars from Indian car manufacturers form one group; those that believe passive and active safety features are (at best) optional extras, or (at worst) not essential in the Indian scenario, form the other group.

Safety is not an option - anything and everything that improves the chances of saving human lives, has to be a non-negotiable factor. The loss of even a single human life is a non-negotiable tragedy.

Accidents need to be kept as minimal as possible - but in the real world, accidents cannot be made non-existent. Driving safe reduces the chances of accidents. But passive and active safety devices (whether in our cars or workplaces or homes or on the road) ensure a lesser impact in case accidents DO happen. Such safety devices have evolved and improved over the years as a result of some sort of past incident somewhere. The evolution of such safety devices is based on understanding the inalienable truth that is a combination of both “it can happen here”, and “it has happened somewhere”.

Concern for safety is a healthy concern perhaps a little short of paranoia, and totally excludes complacency or self-righteousness. Rules and regulations make sure that the agenda of safety is a non-negotiable one - because it is only human nature to sweep safety under the carpet until laws force best safety practices to the forefront. Not only safety devices, but devices combined with training people to follow safe practices together make for saving lives - and we cannot negotiate the exclusion of one (the devices) or the other (the training).

Ignoring safe practices cannot plead ignorance of the law; that is no excuse, and the government needs to implement laws that support safe practices. Fines and sanctions based on such laws can hurt the profits or put a company out of business; but that such action would decrease (though not completely eliminate) tragic circumstances that lead to human death and injury.

So safety awareness is a double-edged sword: putting in place the rules and knowing what needs to be done to promote safety can put economic or other burden on people concerned with its implementation, but in the end, if it saves even one priceless life, it is worth that price. And this is where Mr. Bhargava's comments and stance come across as ridiculous.

[Car Architect]

I didn't know this was a legal argument. Morally, I don't feel the manufacturer is responsible, but exceptions to the rule always exist.


You feel that the manufacture isn't responsible ?? Brilliant!!! If a given product doesn't work as intended then it's clearly a fault at the manufacturer, no two ways about it. But going buy your previous comment, you may well say that buyers should be aware that airbags don't work always, so putting your well earned money on safety features is useless and manufacturers should not be blamed as they aren't responsible for the products that they have manufactured.

Just by supporting capitalist doesn't make you a realist. For being a realist you just need to have common sense.

Sorry for being rude.

[tbppjpr]

Here is the full interview where Mr Bhargava expressed his opinion which lead into all the controversy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVSte9JXv78

During the first half of the interview, he doesn't come onto the subject. He tries to make the viewers feel scary about spare parts availability, genuineness, cost etc. When the same questions is repeated, he tries to divert the topic by talking about safety of two wheeler riders. What I feel is that he looks concerned only about Maruti's market share in India, especially he doesn't want to loose the grip in entry level segments.

Just talks like a leader of typical Maruti saleman.

But its not his fault, he is very experienced guy in the industry and very well aware of the fact that nobody listens when you want to sale a car by talking about toughness and safety. Here is one of the first advertisement of VW Polo telecasted in 2010 talking about sturdiness and safety, but look at the fate of the car today even after 4 years, it barely manages to sale in 2-3K units per month :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M05R1nh5Nts

[aerohit]

SchumiFan & StarScream - I agree with both of you.

Lets assume if the WEST had not implemented NCAP or Safety features over there, then, would people over here demand these features? Probably not. Lot of people these days watch clips on YoutTube from another part of the world and start acting and demanding stuff. Physically they are here, mentally they are in another part of the world. Really weird society I say.

There is nothing wrong with demanding and improving things for yourself but you need to look at the CONTEXT. Its like Indian men wearing imported jeans (in hot Indian summer) that dont even fit them properly- look at the buttocks and you will notice the loose fit and flabbiness. Clearly, it was never for local DNA.


Yes, I may be leaning towards philosophy here, but then philosophy is not taught in Indian schools, they just prepare people for the "Job Market".

Therefore, I agree with Maruti, the so called NCAP was not designed with India in mind. If you ever ask NCAP to draft a standard for India, they would probably advice mandatory HELMET and ROLL CAGE for you all CAR passengers in India.

Instead, I am ashamed that no one is making their voice heard about the SYSTEM. Its like you are saying - give us all the features so that we can mow down pedestrians and cyclists and protect ourselves while we overspeed in our cars! A lot of new cars in EU are designed like an egg with soft bumpers to protect the pedestrian. This is also a safety feature. Why dont you demand such a design? You guys would probably not give 2-hoots about this safety feature. You will be more concerned about scratch on your bumper, complain of poor build quality and bumper deforming and probably install a bull bar.

Indians are finding it harder to fight with the Government, so instead, they are targeting the Companies. Do not forget, if NCAP is there, its because their Government established it, not their car manufacturers.

[carwatcher]

I have something to say for the Bhpians awaiting Govt reaction:

I am personally waiting for the Govt's response on following issues since very long time:
a) Soft Drinks and their impact on health (JPC report was to be tabled)
b) Security Issues with BBM

and many other issues.

I wish to know the structural strength of Honda City vis-a-vis Ciaz as I am pretty sure both cars can outdo each other in that aspect. We even had an incident reported where actor Fardeen Khan's relative was killed in a road accident where he/she (I can't recollect) was occupying the back seat of a Honda City and was killed after other vehicle hit the car from the back.

I think MSIL is really playing with our lives if it is proved that their cars are structurally not safe.

Regarding SRS like Air-bags there are various options to be explored, only driver's side, driver and passenger, side, curtain. So we have posts stating that is co-passenger's life not precious that he/she is not provided Airbags. In practicality, most of the rear passengers don't wear seat belt. Pillion riders don't wear helmet generally. So, its all tricky situation for manufacturers.
I can see in the short-term that like tax benefits for sub 4m length cars, there may be tax incentives for providing additional safety features announced by Govt.

P.S.- Has someone got the data for structural strength of Innova as on Accidents thread I read many posts involving Innova.

[Arkesh]

Immature and ridiculous statements made by the chairman of India's largest automotive manufacturer. The whole world moves in one direction in terms of safety and Mr Bhargava tries to defend his brand and justify that global safety features are not meant for Indian cars. Time could come when such people could blame the Government for constructing expressways (causing high speed accidents) as their cars are not equipped with the required basic safety features.