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Old 7th February 2017, 20:43   #91
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Default Re: How to know whether airbag module is intact or removed?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
I got your point buddy, this happens for sure in used market. Functionality is difficult to confirm, but presence can be checked. Any mechanic / A.S.S could do that. Another way is through VAGCOM for VW family.


We live in a planet filled with greedy hearts. There are cases where used car dealers, sometimes sellers themself, middle men incase of assets recovered by finance institutions remove accessories and parts (including air bag, spare wheels) and sell them offline.


What if the lamp is disconnected / bulb removed / failed? This is another scam running in used car market these days (witnessed one of the flood affected car sale case)
Well said sir, i too thought same. If any quoted slightly low price (assume Laura) , in delhi and kerala, i can see lower priced, though it looks genuine due to 10 year ban rule, but my mind thinks otherwise. So to clear my doubt i had posted it here. Since if they sell off few important modules and parts, which we can not notice, But overall If we see the Laura L&K value, we fell to the trap. But may the seller also had made good profit by selling those un noticed parts.
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Old 11th February 2017, 12:48   #92
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

With increasing awareness about car safety, more and more customers are looking for cars with all types of airbags, as evidenced by the facelifted City, which has additional side and curtain airbags in the top variant.

I found this while going through the website of the European Commission about side airbags.
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Research to date is inconclusive about the performance of side air bags in crashes which are designed to protect occupants in side impacts. No studies to date show convincing evidence of major injury reductions and there are some indications of airbag induced injuries.
Link

Things like this maybe the reason why airbags are still not mandatory in EU. Nevertheless, most manufacturers provide all types of airbags in EU cars.
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Old 29th June 2017, 07:14   #93
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Crash video shows the difference between having airbags and not having them.

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Old 29th June 2017, 13:38   #94
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Crash video shows the difference between having airbags and not having them.
This is an incredibly misleading video (even if it's for a good cause).

The non-airbag and airbag cars being compared in the crash test are wildly different in terms of general safety rating (regardless of airbag).

The non-airbag car is clearly several generations older and suffers from huge intrusion into the passenger cabin. To compare, just keep an eye on the A-pillar during the crashes. You'll see the non-airbag car's A-pillar totally buckle and fold.
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Old 29th June 2017, 13:44   #95
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
The non-airbag car is clearly several generations older and suffers from huge intrusion into the passenger cabin. To compare, just keep an eye on the A-pillar during the crashes. You'll see the non-airbag car's A-pillar totally buckle and fold.
Not to forget the Non-Airbag car's driver's seat also sliding so much forward upon impact unlike the Airbag one.

Of course, Seat Belt with pre-tensioner will be at job but not to the extent that the seat will slide ahead that badly.

Obviously, 2 cars of the same make and model, with and without Airbags should have been compared.
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Old 15th May 2018, 12:49   #96
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Very informative thread.
One thing which are probably not directly listed:

Airbags have holes and start to deflate immediately after they deploy. The important thing is to time the event properly. The "start of deflation" MUST coincide with the passenger hitting the airbag. If the passenger hits the airbag while it is inflating, it may (Note: it MAY) cause more injuries than if the airbag didn't deploy, because the passenger will hit a faster object (rapidly inflating airbag) compared to the crash itself.
This is also visible in any crash test video in slow motion- When the passenger hits the airbags, the airbags are already fully inflated and started to deflate. in summary, it is not the inflation, but the deflation that actually cushions the passenger's momentum and reduces injury.

-Abhi
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Old 28th June 2018, 15:47   #97
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Hi Friends, a query on airbags.

I have a Honda City 2011 SMT model (with ABS & Airbags). I have a 3 year old who is very keen on sitting on the front passenger seat next to me when I drive.

If I'm travelling with my wife and kid, I usually keep him in the back seat safely strapped in his child seat with my wife also in the back seat and leave the front passenger seat empty. This usually works but he keeps complaining and trying to come to the front seat but it is kind of manageable.

Ths issue is when I travel with only him (without my wife), he absolutely refuses to sit in the back seat whatever I do. I end up having him sit in the front seat strapped on the child seat (front facing) and the seat moved back to the maximum extent possible.

Is this safe? I know it's not ideal, but in case of airbag deployment would he be safe?

Also is there any proper way to disable passenger side airbags on the car (Honda City 2011) ? Like an airbag disable switch? I checked with the service adviser and he showed me some jugaad by removing the cable that goes to the passenger side airbag, but that's hardly a proper method.
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Old 28th June 2018, 16:46   #98
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
Is this safe? I know it's not ideal, but in case of airbag deployment would he be safe?
I don't think there is any conclusive answer to this but please do not put the child in the front seat, especially in one with an airbag. If it deploys, even though you have placed him as far back as possible, there is no telling what might happen. Instead, give him a bribe (a chocolate, some rupees to put in hundi etc.) when you complete the trip. They will get used to it soon enough. Please be firm and they will get the message quickly
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Old 28th June 2018, 18:02   #99
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
Hi Friends, a query on airbags.

I have a Honda City 2011 SMT model (with ABS & Airbags). I have a 3 year old who is very keen on sitting on the front passenger seat next to me when I drive.
I face the same issue with my 2.5 years old daughter. She is always keen to sit in the front co-pax seat. But somehow we have to pacify her and settle her in the child seat in the rear. Plus, this warning on the sunvisor makes sure that it's the right thing to do:

Name:  airbag.png
Views: 333
Size:  548.3 KB

Please try to keep him at the rear only. Our roads are among the most unpredictable ones in the world.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 28th June 2018, 18:52   #100
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
Also is there any proper way to disable passenger side airbags on the car (Honda City 2011) ? Like an airbag disable switch? I checked with the service adviser and he showed me some jugaad by removing the cable that goes to the passenger side airbag, but that's hardly a proper method.
Do not fiddle around with the safety systems in a car. You might even end up triggering an unintended release. If you do not use the seat belt for that seat, chances are that your airbag may not activate.

I would advice you not to travel with your child on the front passenger seat, with or without a child seat. I do understand how difficult it is to reason with a toddler. Therefore, in such situations, when you have to travel alone with your kid, use an Ola/Uber. No risk is worth taking, when it comes to your little ones. Cheers.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:31   #101
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
Ths issue is when I travel with only him (without my wife), he absolutely refuses to sit in the back seat whatever I do.
http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choo...ing/faqs/#faq7

While it is technically possible, it might be a good time for a hard life lesson for the little guy that he can't always get what he wants. Plus putting him in the rear is definitely safer.
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Old 29th June 2018, 10:20   #102
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
I end up having him sit in the front seat strapped on the child seat (front facing) and the seat moved back to the maximum extent possible.
Please resist doing this 2/3 times so that he will not push again. Kids are very good at assertive persuasion, if they get a feeling that parents will give in to their demands, they continue to persuade. Don't start the car till he returns back to rear seat or perhaps warn him to go back to home/day-care and actually do it once. It may appear stern/rude to an outsider, however it's for good in long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
If you do not use the seat belt for that seat, chances are that your airbag may not activate.
Airbag would deploy (if it's meant to) irrespective of seat belt usage and in such a scenario, it's known to cause more damage to occupant.
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Old 29th June 2018, 10:30   #103
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

@McLaren Rulez, saket77, arvind71181, sukiwa

Thanks for all the inputs guys!! I got the message. It's not worth the risk.
Let me think of ways to get him sit in the back seat. I think being more stern and assertive with him(using some of the ideas you mentioned) and playing some of his favourite music on the car stereo might help in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choo...ing/faqs/#faq7

While it is technically possible, it might be a good time for a hard life lesson for the little guy that he can't always get what he wants. Plus putting him in the rear is definitely safer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Do not fiddle around with the safety systems in a car. You might even end up triggering an unintended release. If you do not use the seat belt for that seat, chances are that your airbag may not activate.

I would advice you not to travel with your child on the front passenger seat, with or without a child seat. I do understand how difficult it is to reason with a toddler. Therefore, in such situations, when you have to travel alone with your kid, use an Ola/Uber. No risk is worth taking, when it comes to your little ones. Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I face the same issue with my 2.5 years old daughter. She is always keen to sit in the front co-pax seat. But somehow we have to pacify her and settle her in the child seat in the rear. Plus, this warning on the sunvisor makes sure that it's the right thing to do:

Attachment 1775921

Please try to keep him at the rear only. Our roads are among the most unpredictable ones in the world.

Regards,
Saket
Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
I don't think there is any conclusive answer to this but please do not put the child in the front seat, especially in one with an airbag. If it deploys, even though you have placed him as far back as possible, there is no telling what might happen. Instead, give him a bribe (a chocolate, some rupees to put in hundi etc.) when you complete the trip. They will get used to it soon enough. Please be firm and they will get the message quickly
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukiwa View Post
Please resist doing this 2/3 times so that he will not push again. Kids are very good at assertive persuasion, if they get a feeling that parents will give in to their demands, they continue to persuade. Don't start the car till he returns back to rear seat or perhaps warn him to go back to home/day-care and actually do it once. It may appear stern/rude to an outsider, however it's for good in long run.

Airbag would deploy (if it's meant to) irrespective of seat belt usage and in such a scenario, it's known to cause more damage to occupant.
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Old 29th June 2018, 11:06   #104
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

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Originally Posted by sukiwa View Post
Airbag would deploy (if it's meant to) irrespective of seat belt usage and in such a scenario, it's known to cause more damage to occupant.
Most airbag systems are designed to inflate in conjunction with the seatbelt. For the airbag (SRS) to have the desired effect, the seat belt (PRS) has to hold you in a safe position. If not, the airbag inflation in itself is enough to cause serious (even fatal) injury. Imagine a collision at a slow speed, at say 30kmph, just enough to trigger an airbag release, and assume the passenger/driver is unbelted. He will surely get thrown forward, and may be, hit the windshield/steering wheel, causing some injury. However, in case of an airbag inflation in the same scenario, he is going to be thrown head first into an explosion which could result in a much more serious injury.

Besides, I am not sure if there is a monetary aspect to this as well. Just thinking out loud. Why pay for an additional airbag restoration if the driver was the only person in the car. So no seatbelts, no airbag inflation. I am talking of a minor collision where the car is not a CTL. You may argue that the weight sensor in the seat could trigger the airbag (which defeats the SRS/PRS function). And the fact that the car was moving, means there is a person in the driver seat. Am I making sense here? Don't think so. Not able to put my view across correctly.

Last edited by SCORPION : 29th June 2018 at 11:11.
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Old 29th June 2018, 12:29   #105
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Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukiwa View Post
Airbag would deploy (if it's meant to) irrespective of seat belt usage and in such a scenario, it's known to cause more damage to occupant.
I can recollect from my work related discussions with OEM when I was in the airbag cable harness team about 11 years ago. Some development steps that was shared by OEM were quite informative. Initial airbag designs were to open every time a crash happens irrespective of seat belts. Later on quickly this was upgraded and airbags opened only when there was a seat belt buckled in.

Further on they had incidents where when kids (Not infants) were buckled in, the airbag opened and caused severe injuries. Therefore an idea of pressure sensor integration in seat was thought of. So the airbag inflates only when a seat belt is buckled + the sensor senses a male sitting on the seat.

However, some drivers still had problem who complained that airbag inflated when they placed their office briefcase or any other weight. Then the OEM started working on integrating pressure sensors + temperature sensors in seat which senses that there is a defined load + the load is a human based on body temperature.

I am not sure how much of this tech is integrated in modern day car around the world.
For Indian market I hope OEMs have implemented a sync between airbag opening and seat belt buckling. I know many cases where airbags inflated at lower speed crash without seat belt and the driver/passengers lost of vision.

-UB
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