[XD2]

Folks, I am looking for some advice based on my recent experience with an accident victim. [No pictures, sorry - the situation did not allow]


First, the incident:

About two days ago when travelling back from my office in Manesar to Gurgaon (via a state road on the periphery) - there was a short traffic jam. There was a short dirt track on the left - so I took to that and in about a 100m came to halt as I could see a small crowd ahead.

I got out of my vehicle and walked to understand what the commotion was. What I saw then was a sad site of an accident. A motorcycle rider was lying between the first and second left wheel of a long truck. A crowd of concerned onlookers had gathered - but none actually approached the victim. I would guess the guy was overtaking the truck from the left and something went wrong.

The victim was in a terrible shape - his left leg and hand were about detached. And he was groaning - asking for help. One of the bystanders moved closer and asks people to help him. He looks around and sees my vehicle - and asks me to escort this guy to a hospital. I drive a Mahindra Thar with an open tub (no seats in the back) - so for a moment I am hesitant - this is not the best vehicle to transport this guy, I say. I look around and see if someone with a larger vehicle can help. I ask them if they called for an ambulance - but the folks gathered say it will take ages. With no one else volunteering, I drive up my Thar. A few folks gather around and pick the victim up and lie him down in my vehicle. I ask for a few people to climb in with him as he will need to be supported. Everybody dissipates quickly, giving reasons why they cant. One good samaritan though climbs in and mentions that I can move - and that no one is going to bother.

In a nervous 10 minute drive, the victim is groaning in pain. The good samaritan who volunteered to escort keeps reassuring the guy that all will be well. A few guys on motorcycles escort us - guiding the way.

We reach a small hospital on the outskirts of Gurgaon - the hospital staff comes by with a stretcher and as they were about to move the patient they notice his state and say we need to take him to a larger hospital. I ask about first aid or something - they shake their head and say we should move him to Medicity immediately. I ask if they atleast have an ambulance - an open metal tub isnt the most comfortable. They arrange for an ambulance and the patient is escorted to Medicity. On the behest of the victim, an injection is also administered before the ambulance leaves.

As they leave, I take some time to comprehend the entire scene. I drove to the next service station and asked for a quick was to drain out the blood, et al.

This was my first such experience and it was getting a little hard to get it out of my head - so I drive down to the hospital. I dont see anyone familiar - so I check by the emergency desk on the victim. The guy at the desk asks me the name - and I say I dont have it - but he was brought an hour ago with a severed hand and limbs - and he responds - not rudely - that there have been more than a dozen serious patients in the past hour - would be hard to figure. I find the ambulance driver though - and he says that the patient's family has arrived and he is being taken for an operation.


Now, my questions :

• Should I have disagreed to transport the victim - and waited for an ambulance instead - in which scenarios should you do this - and in which ones you should not ? My question is from a medical standpoint. I would not want to cause more hurt in a eagerness to help.

• If the victim does need to be moved with no immediate evacuation in sight - what should be the things we need to observe ?
In the city outskirts, I don't think even the ambulance guys care so much. I saw them move the victim from the Jeep to the ambulance - i did not see any precautions or any steps. The gathered guys picked him up and moved him to the ambulance.

• What precautions do you take before you lay the patient - any quick steps to clean/disinfect ?

This one sound a little silly, but:

• What needs to be done to clean your car after your transport an injured person. For me, it was simpler as I have an open tub - but other friends of mine did pose this question for their own vehicles - so is important I answer them. I have come to know that it is a deterrent to many a person who would have helped otherwise.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by XD2

Folks, I am looking for some advise based on my recent experience with an accident victim. [No pictures, sorry - the situation did not allow]


This one sound a little silly, but:
* What needs to be done to clean your car after your transport an injured person. For me, it was simpler as I have an open tub - but other friends of mine did pose this question for their own vehicles - so is important I answer them. I have come to know that it is a deterrent to many a person who would have helped otherwise.

First off, I guess we can say the victim if he pulled through, it was because of you.
The priority was to get him to a hospital as soon as possible . If there was a wait for a better vehicle for his transportation, that wait would have cost him his life.

As for removing the stains, a good car wash and scrub should help. If it was a car, it would been difficult.

[hserus]

Having seen this happen with a cut on the leg rather than an accident victim - blot up the blood spots asap, after that I think baking soda or similar should help. Though with extensive stains professional detailing will be required - and asap, because it is just not hygeinic and there's an infection risk, especially with accident contaminated human blood. DONT scrub it. Scrubbing will spread the stain even further.

Horribly difficult to remove especially from fabric or faux leather - which is why ambulances have waterproof rexine covering all surfaces, hose it off and that's done.

This article seems to be knowledgeable about it. http://www.detailxperts.net/blog/201...%99s-interior/

Also - congratulations on being a good samaritan - good samaritan laws aren't very common in India, and there have been previous stories of police harassment of any do gooder who helps an accident victim. Which is why the crowd was very reluctant.

[gabrielthomas]

It happened once to me when I was coming back from work and when I was almost nearing my house. There was a small crowd on the road - A lady and her husband had fallen off the bike. The lady was injured and was bleeding from the arms, her husband was not injured and appeared quite normal. Looked like the lady was not in a position to sit on a bike. They stopped me and requested me to take that lady to a nearby hospital to which i obliged. They opened the rear door and made the lady lie down on the seat. I informed them that I will be at the hospital that is quite popular in that area and started. All through the journey she was groaning with pain, I was actually feeling numb and just managed to say "you will be ok" it took about 10 mins for me to reach the hospital. By the time i reached, the lady's husband, their daughter and few of their relatives had come there. After she was taken into the hospital for further treatment, I bid them bye and left. I started for home - still numb though. As soon as I reached home, I just parked the car and went to bed. Next morning when i was cleaning the car, i saw dried blood stains on my back seat. My seat color was beige. I washed as much as I could, a small remant of the blood stain remained back and I left it as it is. it was too hard to be noticed by someone.

XD2 - You were just too awesome. Rather than the docs, you were the actual saviour!!

[FORTified]

Originally Posted by gabrielthomas

.
XD2 - You were just too awesome. Rather than the docs, you were the actual saviour!!

It is good to note that you took the initiative. I had seen many cases where crowd gathers around the scene, clearly see that the victim is in need of urgent help but nobody moves. May be due to collective shock of fear of the police procedures. HOWEVER, if some one takes the crucial first step and jumps in to help, there will be many to follow. i took that first step many a time and always, without fail, I got help from other.
On December 26th, 2014, I was travelling with family, from Udaipur to Chittour. we saw one truck going off road near a curve and going turtle, into a 20 feet deep trench. I stopped my cab and ran. 10-15 people came but we couldn't find anybody in the truck. Diesel was leaking and then I founf something moving. The wind shield broke, the driver was thrown out and the truck fall on him, Upside down!!My jaw dropped. The driver is sandwiched between hard rocks and the truck. I shouted for help. People were doubting what we can do. I asked them to help lift the truck - an impossible task. But, when i started, 15 joined and we could lift the truck by one feet and the victim was pulled out. But for those 15, he would have died right there, in front of our eyes. Ambulance came instantly [does this always happen in Rajasthan? never seen it happening anywhere else. So prompt] took him and two other victims found in nearby bushes.

SO, request to all the members of this esteemed group - Please take the first step when it is needed. It makes a world of difference to the victim.

[VW2010]

Should I have disagreed to transport the victim - and waited for an ambulance instead - in which scenarios should you do this - and in which ones you should not ? My question is from a medical standpoint. I would not want to cause more hurt in a eagerness to help.
* If the victim does need to be moved with no immediate evacuation in sight - what should be the things we need to observe ?
In the city outskirts, I don't think even the ambulance guys care so much. I saw them move the victim from the Jeep to the ambulance - i did not see any precautions or any steps. The gathered guys picked him up and moved him to the ambulance.
* What precautions do you take before you lay the patient - any quick steps to clean/disinfect ?

Considering the state of our hospitals and ambulance service you did the right thing giving the guy atleast a chance to see another day. Will there be nuisance from police and others, probably yes but these days they understand the gesture and provide help and assistance to bravehearts like you than make you go through an hassel.

Regarding moving the victim. This is a catch 22 here because it is better to have medical professional handle this movement as there is also a risk of actually putting the life in danger by simply moving the victim from the initial state.

We are yet to reach that stage where the ambulance and team of movers in ambulance are medically trained to assess and manage this situation. So what you did is fair and the right thing.

I always think about myself in that situation and how bad it would be if no one helped and i end up dying where i had a chance to live if someone helped.

Restraining movements is the most important step in moving a victim to avoid any damage to muscle, nerves or even tissues due to involuntary movement of the victim.

If you observe developed 911 like services, they take close to an hour to assess and make necessary decisions before moving the victim into even the stretcher. This is to understand the damage, create a plan to minimize damage during transit and preserve and provide as much chance as possible

At the same time there is definitely cases where you need quick transfer and even there secure and transfer is first priority while there is always a qualified doctor who administers the first aid, keeping the heart going and assessing damage and keeping the hospital informed so they can prep for a quick surgery to provide maximum chance for the victim.

In our country what you did is what most ambulance do. You did the best and lets hope he survives and you get a chance to meet him after he is all better.

[sjcherian]

Originally Posted by XD2

I drive a Mahindra Thar with an open tub (no seats in the back) - so for a moment I am hesitant - this is not the best vehicle to transport this guy, I say. I look around and see if someone with a larger vehicle can help. I ask them if they called for an ambulance - but the folks gathered say it will take ages. With no one else volunteering, I drive up my Thar. A few folks gather around and pick the victim up and lie him down in my vehicle. I ask for a few people to climb in with him as he will need to be supported. Everybody dissipates quickly, giving reasons why they cant. One good samaritan though climbs in and mentions that I can move - and that no one is going to bother.

Good to see your noble gesture and your Thar serving its part as well. Great Job !

[schakravarthy]

As a worst case scenario, what will the situation be if the victim passes away while in transit? Would the person transporting the victim face any legal issues? An unprofessional mode of transport may sometimes do more damage than leaving the victim at the accident spot for a few more minutes. Though the help is offered in good faith, theoretically, can a person be prosecuted if the death occurs during the transportation?

( this post is in no way meant to discourage people from helping out the unfortunate. Please do your might. My post is just me voicing my stupid thoughts aloud. )

[VW2010]

@schakravarthy

Actually a very valid point. It can create only hassle for the person trying to help. Think about it right. If the person is dead the guys who followed you would silently escaped, the good will who tried to help would have washed his hands of and you would have ended up explaining the whole situation.

that includes convincing that you didnt run over the person.

After reading this, it makes it very scary.

Thinking about it, thats the same reason i hardly take anyone else as pillion in bike to protect myself.

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by schakravarthy

As a worst case scenario, what will the situation be if the victim passes away while in transit? Would the person transporting the victim face any legal issues? An unprofessional mode of transport may sometimes do more damage than leaving the victim at the accident spot for a few more minutes.

Very valid point, especially if there is a cervical spine injury which is unstable. It might cause compression of Spinal cord leading to death/ disability to the injured person. There are specific ways to transfer an injured patient but with the available infrastructure in our country, its seldom followed. But still that does not mean that we should not help an injured person. I request everyone here on TeamBHP to just take a basic life support course or atleast just keep updated from internet.

[XD2]

Thanks guys - the encouragement is very helpful.

I would like to reiterate though, the hero of this story was this one guy (referred to in my earlier narrative as the 'good Samaritan') who drove everyone to result - including taking the decision of transporting the guy in an open Jeep. It was a sight to see as this guy thru the 10-minute grueling drive, kept reinforcing the victim with the thought that he would be fine. I recall at one point he says to this guy "bhagwan pe bharosa rakh" {keep your faith in God}. It is individuals like him that I would hope are around if I were ever to meet with an accident.

Now, going by the gist of what I have understood, in the event of facing with such a situation in the future, the best possible approach would be to transport the victim to the nearest hospital/ambulance on priority. Minimizing movement of the patient would be a 'good to do'.

Legal issues pose a separate angle - but when I am not at fault, I would put my faith in the officer investigating and hope he gets it. I'd hope to stick with this belief until I encounter the first incident where proven otherwise.

And for the stains, well, have explained to my friend the above. He's considering equipping his car with a plastic tarp - serves multiple purposes - including this. A human life will far outweigh a stained seat - but the plastic tarp will enable the 'intent'.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by XD2

Thanks guys - the encouragement is very helpful.

I would like to reiterate though, the hero of this story was this one guy (referred to in my earlier narrative as the 'good Samaritan') who drove everyone to result - including taking the decision of transporting the guy in an open Jeep. ...

Now, going by the gist of what I have understood, in the event of facing with such a situation in the future, the best possible approach would be to transport the victim to the nearest hospital/ambulance on priority. Minimizing movement of the patient would be a 'good to do'.

Legal issues pose a separate angle - but when I am not at fault, I would put my faith in the officer investigating and hope he gets it. I'd hope to stick with this belief until I encounter the first incident where proven otherwise.

First of all, hats off to you! What you did was amazing and actually a life saving action.

A few years ago, I witnessed, albeit in rear view mirror, a Nissan Micra crash into a truck. Did not carry anyone, but rather called 108.
I am fully aware that in such situations our ability to think fast or in a very focussed way might not be optimum. And the chaos people make just does not help.
But still would insist that in future if anybody is helping/driving somebody to help, make a call to 108.

108 Ambulances are stationed at various locations. There is a chance that an Ambulance could be present on the route to small hospital. Or 108 ambulance can reach the smaller hospital if its nearby the smaller hospital and take further care of patient.

If the Ambulance is not in nearby vicinity, you can ask location of a higher facility hospital when you make a call to 108. This helps one to decide on route to take injured person straight to a better hospital.

Last but certainly not the least, this call to 108 can help in legal issues also. This could prove to be a vital point that you made a call to 108 citing help of a victim which you had spotted. Such an immediate call can help in legal formalities if victim loses his life while being transported to hospital.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by XD2

• Should I have disagreed to transport the victim - and waited for an ambulance instead - in which scenarios should you do this - and in which ones you should not ? My question is from a medical standpoint. I would not want to cause more hurt in a eagerness to help.

XD2 - You did the right thing by helping, rather than standing around! Your story will also make others think twice, rather than just being "one of the crowd".

I'm no medical expert, but I would hazard a guess at two things:

1) Given the injuries you described, blood loss would be one of the top life-threatening factors for the victim. Every minute would count.

2) Care has to be taken for transporting accident victims mostly in terms of neck & back injuries, as if there is an injury there, further aggravations could lead to a more serious outcome.


Have you been back to the hospital or spoken to the family? Knowing the victim's current status might take some weight off your shoulders.

Either which way, thanks for what you did!

PS - I have been in a minor (self-caused) bicycle accident in the US, where i was lying in the middle of the road bleeding. No one came to help me, or even ask me anything. They just sat in their cars and called 911! My point? While that might have been the 'safer' thing to do, it definitely didn't feel like the right thing from my point of view. The accident victim in your story was asking for help, and you & the good samaritan did what you could

[humyum]

A girl in Mumbai died some days back because of a hit and run. She also died because she was lying on the road for half an hour and no one even bothered to take her to the hospital. I wish u you were around or people like you were around her.

I don't know much about the questions you have asked, but one thing I know is, you are a brilliant human being. Keep it up.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by XD2

Folks, I am looking for some advice based on my recent experience with an accident victim.

Morally and from a humanitarian point of view, what you did was exemplary, and I would like to congratulate you for gathering the courage to do it. You saved a human life, and no amount of thanks or awards from others can ever replace that inner feeling of well-being you have right now.

However, there's a reason why this happens...

Originally Posted by Rehaan

...i was lying in the middle of the road bleeding. No one came to help me, or even ask me anything. They just sat in their cars and called 911!

There are chances that a bystander untrained in basic life support and / or emergency trauma management can do more harm than good to the victim. Here in India (and esp. Gurgaon), if the victim did not survive by the time the good Samaritan transported him to hospital, what would be the likelihood of the victim's family hunting the good Samaritan down and charging him with murdering the victim in his attempts to do good?

This article is a good read for situations like these. And this one.