[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

, but even back then, I was thinking "well what if we fitted it with a roll cage?" Can any experts comment on this? How well integrated can one make a roll-cage for something like the Duster or any daily driver for that matter?

Thanks

I guess in these Monocoque cars it is pretty tough to retro fit a roll cage without doing major modifications which in themselves would cause the vehicle to become road-illegal.
Then there is the question of a badly constructed roll cage which will actually do more harm than good to the occupant in the event of a crash.
Personally I wouldn't care much to end up impaled on a roll cage spar, like a rabbit on a spit!

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Sorry, still disagree with a 5 point harness in a road car. If your hypothesis was right, why aren't supercars equipped with 5 point harnesses? Even the Nissan GTR comes with a regular seatbelt!

Lots of reasons, here are a few.
1.They don't have inertia reel, so you can't simply go in and strap yourself. It takes some time. If multiple users drive the car, it becomes even more tricky since each driver will adjust seat in different positions.
2.A 3 point inertia reel belt is self adjusting, does not require special seat holes and can cope (to some degree) with different seat angles.
3.Effectively using a 5 point harness in a road car would make the car a 2 seater only-as most cars in India have a bench seat in rear.
4.With a properly used 5 pt harness you will never get close to the airbag. It will deploy few inches in front of your face. All you'll get is a facefull of powdered catalyst and an echo in your ears.
5.Airbags are designed to protect people who don't wear seatbelts. Hence the 2-stage design. If you are wearing your belts you don't usually need the full force the bag can deliver.

The entire safety system in a vehicle is designed to work together. Belts stretch, pretensioners deploy to take out the slack, and the airbag keeps your face out of the windshield. But a Harness renders all of that useless as you're rigidly strapped into your seat.

Also 597bhp Ferrari 458 Speciale comes with 4 pt harness from the factory.

In frontal impacts, the airbag will act as a cushion between the steering wheel and you, thus minimising the direct impact you have to face. The structure remaining a constant, the airbag will definitely make a difference compared to no airbag!

Yes sir. The airbags cushion the impact of the driver/passenger since they (people) move forward. However please see my reply in above portion.

From wikipedia

A five-point harness is a form of seat belt that contains five straps that are mounted to the car frame. It has been engineered for an increase of safety in the occurrence of an automobile accident. As a result, this form of seat belt has been mandated in the race car competition of NASCAR.[1] This was an invention made mandatory to have due to the high velocities involved in the sport. Along with the design of the seat belt, helmet straps have been designed to increase the safety of the driver. This invention has also been used to secure infants and young children in child safety seats.

The five-point harness is also used to buckle up children in forward-facing and rear-facing seats. It is designed with the same concept of tightly holding the passenger to the seat with the use of five different straps but built for the young children. This form of seat harness for young children "should be a default standard" when children are present in a motor vehicle according to Phil Wilson.[6] The reason there have been a number of injured young children and infants in survivable accidents is due to incorrect use of the Child Safety Seat

Note to mods - If this thread is going OT, please post this in the appropriate place.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

...Airbags are designed to protect people who don't wear seatbelts...

...Also 597bhp Ferrari 458 Speciale comes with 4 pt harness from the factory...

I don't mean to be offensive here, but you really need to get your facts right. Airbags are NOT designed to protect people who don't wear seatbelt. Airbags are the Secondary Restrain System, the primary being the seatbelts. The airbags DO NOT deploy if the seatbelts are not fastened!

Airbags deploy at a speed of >300 kmph, so if you're not restrained with seatbelts, the airbags will smash your face or even kill you, causing more damage than a steering wheel would. Don't get fooled by the term AIRbag. Air coming at you at that velocity can be deadly.

Maybe a 458 Speciale comes with a 4 point harness because it's made mainly for the track. The regular 458 (not sure of the power figures) does come with regular seatbelts, so do a lot of other cars with more than 600 bhp on tap.

Harnesses are racing gear! It can't replace airbags in a passenger car! Apologies for straying off topic..!

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

I don't mean to be offensive here, but you really need to get your facts right. Airbags are NOT designed to protect people who don't wear seatbelt.

I agree. What I wanted to highlight that initially Airbags were looked upon as a replacement to seat belt. Only in recent times have they been looked upon as supplemental restraint system. This is my argument. If you are properly belted in, you won't need airbags. And now I rest my case.

Airbags for passenger cars were introduced in the United States in the mid-1970s, when seat belt usage rates in the country were quite low. Ford built an experimental fleet of cars with airbags in 1971, followed by General Motors in 1973 on Chevrolet vehicles. The early fleet of experimental GM vehicles equipped with airbags experienced seven fatalities, one of which was later suspected to have been caused by the airbag.

In 1974, GM made its "Air Cushion Restraint System" (ACRS) available as a regular production option (RPO code AR3) in full-size Cadillacs,[25] Buick and Oldsmobile models. The GM cars from the 1970s equipped with ACRS had a driver-side airbag, a driver-side knee restraint[26] (which consists of a padded lower dashboard), and a passenger-side airbag. The passenger-side airbag protects both front passengers[26] and unlike most newer ones, it integrated a knee cushion and a torso cushion, and it also had dual stage deployment which varied depending on the force of the impact. The cars equipped with ACRS had lap belts for all seating positions but they did not have shoulder belts. Shoulder belts were already mandatory equipment in the United States on closed cars without airbags for the driver and outer front passenger seating positions, but GM chose to market its airbags as a substitute for shoulder belts.

Some other points,
In 1981, Mercedes-Benz introduced the airbag in Germany as an option on its high-end S-Class (W126). In the Mercedes system, the sensors would automatically pre-tension the seat belts to reduce occupant's motion on impact (now a common feature), and then deploy the airbag on impact. This integrated the seat belts and airbag into a restraint system, rather than the airbag being considered an alternative to the seat belt.

In 1987, the Porsche 944 turbo became the first car to have driver and passenger airbags as standard equipment. The Porsche 944 and 944S had this as an available option. The same year also saw the first airbag in a Japanese car, the Honda Legend.

you can refer here for more info.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

[i]I agree. What I wanted to highlight that initially Airbags were looked upon as a replacement to seat belt. Only in recent times have they been looked upon as supplemental restraint system. This is my argument. If you are properly belted in, you wont need airbags.

Incorrect. Even a properly belted person's head moves tpwards the steering wheel in a crash. The airbag softens the blow to the head and the torso in such circumstances. In addition, the steering wheel can move inwards due to the impact as well. Just see some crash test videos and you will see that the dummy 's head hits the steering despite the seatbelt. I am not negating the importance of seatbelts. They are a vital safety tool. Airbags are an additional safety measure.

[Ferruccio]

Sadly the only AT in the list is the underwhelming Ford EcoSport AT. That is until the XUV500 AT makes its appearance. What's with the manufacturers that they shy away from offering AT on top-spec? IMHO a Creta top-end AT with the addition of a sun-roof would have been the largest selling variant!

[vinitbhavi]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Sadly the only AT in the list is the underwhelming Ford EcoSport AT. That is until the XUV500 AT makes its appearance. What's with the manufacturers that they shy away from offering AT on top-spec? IMHO a Creta top-end AT with the addition of a sun-roof would have been the largest selling variant!

Absolutely agree with you there. The xuv AT is eagerly awaited. Meanwhile IMHO the sun roof in the creta is a cosmetic addition and understand the need to shelf it for cost issues. The absence of 6 airbags on the AT is appalling and shows the cost cutting on a very important safely aspect.

[epuneet]

A Court in Assam has taken cognizance of the poor safety levels for the small cars sold to consumers by applying a blanket ban on small cars that don't meet crash-test norms in the state. Link

"...
The petitioners said crash tests such as the Global New Car Assessment Programme (NCAP), which are followed in Europe and developed markets, should apply to cars sold in Assam because higher safety standards are required in mountainous regions. Addressing the concerns raised, the high court on June 26 barred all manufacturers from selling cars that did not meet crash-test norms, affecting about 140 models.
..."

As expected car manufacturers are addressing the situation by pointing out the delayed timeline for rules implementation in India rather than trying to expedite the process to improve the safety levels.

"...
Companies have time till 2017, when India adopts these standards and all manufacturers would have to comply," said a senior auto executive, preferring not to be identified as the matter is sub judice. The next hearing in the case is coming up on August 27."

[torquing_points]

Time to update this thread. Here's the side curtain air bag status on a few cars I researched

AVAILABLE:
INNOVA: Only in ZX trim
Endeavour: Only in Titanium trim
Fortuner: In all trims
Jetta: All trims
Camry: All trims
Creta: Only in one variant, not available in Auto
Hexa


NOT AVAILABLE:
Corolla
Ciaz
City
Pajero Sport

[AutoSphere]

Here are some more of them in top variants

1) Ford Ecosport
2) Ford Figo - Hatch
3) Ford Figo - Aspire

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by AutoSphere

Here are some more of them in top variants

1) Ford Ecosport
2) Ford Figo - Hatch
3) Ford Figo - Aspire

Adding Hyundai Elite i20 Asta(O) & Verna SX(O) to the above list.

[arpanjha]

Hyundai i20 active SX both petrol and diesel come with curtain airbags.

[scythian]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Time to update this thread. Here's the side curtain air bag status on a few cars I researched

AVAILABLE:
...
Camry: All trims
Creta: Only in one variant, not available in Auto
Hexa
...

Adding more details on the availability of 6 airbags in the yet to be launched Hexa. Hexa XT, XTA, and XT 4X4 come with front and rear side curtain airbags (in addition to the dual front airbags). XTA and XT 4X4 may actually cost more than 15 lakhs (as these are the top 2 variants and Hexa's estimated cost is between 13 and 18 lakhs) and thus be out of scope as far as this thread is concerned, but XT may still fall within the Sub-15 lakh range.

[Simhi]

City ZX launched today joins the list with 6 airbags with ex-showroom Delhi price of 13.5 lacs approx.

[govigov]

What newer car comes with 6+ airbags and a diesel auto?