[IshaanIan]

Folks Please! Expecting a "mention" of certain cars just because they provided top spec safety features in the past, is not what this thread is about

It is about who seems to care about atleast offering top spec safety features on Sub-D-Segment cars, at the present moment. Ford has clearly made its intentions known by offering a variant with solid, higher than is the norm, safety kit, on every new car that they have launched. That IMO is a commendable thing.

I see no good in praising a brand just because it launched a small hatchback with six airbags in the past, but never bothered sticking to that tradition. The car came with stickers on the rear windshield proudly claiming its ENCAP 5 star rating even when the version we got here India was not quite as safe. In my opinion, it is clear that Hyundai offered those features accompanied by aggressive false advertising just to test the market's waters. The brand is quite obviously aimed only at maximizing profits where ever it is possible. Take the new Elite i20 for example; the car skips on discs at the rear and doesn't offer a variant with 6 airbags anymore (even though it is an entire generation newer) infact they have recently subtracted some standard features from the car as well. This is no award ceremony so why should we bother mentioning the brand when clearly the only commendable job they are doing is to offer cars that appeal to the majority of the market. Cars that sell!

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

In my opinion, it is clear that Hyundai offered those features accompanied by aggressive false advertising just to test the market's waters.

This sums up the attitude of most manufacturers towards safety. What customers consider most important, is what they want to sell. We, Indians put safety as last, and many of us believe accidents are something that happens in other part of the country, and our tin cans we drive will be able to keep us comfortable if we have the A/C, and power windows.
This mentality is what is reflected by manufacturers here. Hyundai is tasting huge success these days, along with Maruti, because they understand the pulse of the market. They give us all that glitters, such as auto folding ORVMs, nice quality sound systems with 4 speakers and 2 tweeters etc, while providing 2 airbags and ABS at the max for safety.
This also in my opinion is just for the sake of advertisement, as this clearly leaves out the rear passengers. They anyway, do not need airbags, as they don't even use their seat belts! Why bother increasing prices and lose business!!
Ford is changing all this, by providing all round safety equipment, at similar price points of other budget cars. This, if they continue to provide for a few more years, other manufacturers also will be forced to follow suit.
I am almost sure our Government norms, when they introduce, will probably only make driver + co-passenger airbags mandatory. But if the manufacturers are already giving 6 airbags, then the safety equipment provided by our manufacturers will be a notch above than that, due to the pressure from competition.

[VW2010]

This sums up the attitude of most manufacturers towards safety.

In developed markets having two front air bags is more than enough to pass safety test. Atleast the manufacturers should have the morality to say they are not selling any cars without Airbags.

Selling the Omni is a disastor or any cars similar to Omni offering absolutely no protection to anyone including the pedestrian.

Seat belts, air bags and head restrainer should be bare minimum and speed should be cut of on certain cars when none of these are available.

[Vigkey]

Kudos to Ford for the initiative it has taken up by providing 6 airbags in the Aspire - which is a sub 4m pseudo-sedan - a mass market product. The fact is NO ONE would have really cared if Ford did not offer this variant and also chose not to offer airbags in the lowest variant. However, they have set an example for companies like Maruti, Hyundai and Honda to follow. Especially Hyundai and Honda who are going backwards on their safety options.

• Hyundai deleted the variant with 6 airbags and 4 discs
• Honda which offered dual airbags in ALL variants of previous generation Jazz is not doing it anymore in any of its budget cars and premium offerings like Jazz and City

Maruti has done a good job on S-Cross offering dual airbags + ABS in all variants. However, I wish they take this forward to their budget offerings as well. IMO, as the biggest seller of cars in India, if they do it every other manufacturer will be forced to do it.

I also want to check on a different perspective. I hope experts can help me with this.

It is a known fact that front airbags can be dangerous and in fact can be fatal if deployed when the driver / passenger is not wearing seat-belts. How does it work with side and curtain airbags, if the rear passengers are not wearing seat-belts. In a country like India, where many drivers and co-drivers still hesitate to wear seat-belts, where rear passengers wearing seat-belts is as rare to see as a Bengal Tiger in Amazon forest - will side and curtain airbags act more as a danger and less as a savior?

However, I also realize that even in countries like the US, many rear passengers do not wear seat-belts and I think it is not mandated by law. So when majority of cars sold in the US has variants with 6 airbags and if it was dangerous, US would have already mandated seat-belts for rear passengers. Basically, I am really confused and need expert views to clarify my doubt

[RSR]

In this short video from 2008, a crash safety expert from the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS) describes the importance of side airbags & curtain airbags. Fatalities caused by side collisions have been significantly brought down in North America, thanks to these safety balloons embedded in the seats and pillars of vehicles:

http://youtu.be/6zlcEYCQBJY

It's very, very sad that life-saving side & curtain airbags are being mocked as being "marketing gimmicks", their effectiveness questioned, and what not in India.

In the meantime, in the developed world, they're moving beyond side airbags, curtain airbags and even knee airbags, by coming up with more and more innovative forms of safety. Rear seat side airbags are no big deal, here is the next level of safety that's taking shape in the developed markets:

http://youtu.be/EAEyOrjgq_k

[The Observer]

Originally Posted by hybridpetrol

This sums up the attitude of most manufacturers towards safety. What customers consider most important, is what they want to sell. We, Indians put safety as last, and many of us believe accidents are something that happens in other part of the country, and our tin cans we drive will be able to keep us comfortable if we have the A/C, and power windows.
This mentality is what is reflected by manufacturers here. Hyundai is tasting huge success these days, along with Maruti, because they understand the pulse of the market. They give us all that glitters, such as auto folding ORVMs, nice quality sound systems with 4 speakers and 2 tweeters etc, while providing 2 airbags and ABS at the max for safety.

To be frank i am having a very tough time convincing my folks to buy ( and pay) for a vehicle that has full safety ( 6 airbags not just 2) , for the exact same reasons you mentioned above.

My wife is just totally obsessed with the Jazz, i do not fault her, i too love the car but the absence of side impact protection on the jazz and the presence of the same on the Ecosport/Aspire makes me consider the Fords more than the Hondas. Now which one of the Aspire/Ecosport top ends? - that is another discussion IMO.

To make matters complicated for me - Jazz has better mileage, more roomy and spacious, has magic seats, has 2 airbags, my daily drive is through congested traffic and its a Honda. My folks have almost ruled me out as a "crazy" for wanting 6 airbags (i.e the Ford) when the Jazz VX iDtec is at least 1.5 lakhs cheaper than Ecosport Titanium O.

Originally Posted by RSR

In this short video from 2008, a crash safety expert from the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS) describes the importance of side airbags & curtain airbags.

It's very, very sad that life-saving side & curtain airbags are being mocked as being "marketing gimmicks", their effectiveness questioned, and what not in India.

In the meantime, in the developed world, they're moving beyond side airbags, curtain airbags and even knee airbags, by coming up with more and more innovative forms of safety. Rear seat side airbags are no big deal, here is the next level of safety that's taking shape in the developed markets:

Thanks a lot RSR for these informative videos.

I have tried showing my folks all the various videos regarding side impact protection, i will show them these too and i pray that i get my way

[drsingh]

http://youtu.be/KRcajZHc6Yk

Some fun with airbags.

Shows the speed of inflation and deflation.

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by The Observer

My folks have almost ruled me out as a "crazy" for wanting 6 airbags (i.e the Ford) when the Jazz VX iDtec is at least 1.5 lakhs cheaper than Ecosport Titanium O.

Here VFM rules the car market, and value is seen as equal to what is experienced on an everyday basis (like Driver side vanity mirror, even lights on the vanity mirror etc) and not just something that blows up in the event of a very rare accident. Why bother investing in airbags & host of other safety technologies which we cannot know for sure whether they will actually work when needed. After all we have heard so much of stories about airbags deploying at wrong times and non-deployment during the need to support our theory to consider them unnecessary.
This might be the counter reason offered to consider anyone who puts in extra lakhs for safety equipment.
Leaving aside latest safety equipment - just consider seat belts for a moment. We do have a habit of laughing at foreign returns who advocate the usage of rear seat belts, passenger seat belts etc, don't we? Why? We do not have any rules / police does not catch us if we do not wear them in our country. In a car if we see everyone in the family wearing seatbelts (have we seen such a family?!), we would consider them crazy or paranoids, afraid of death.
This is the mindset the government should battle, by making mandatory all round safety equipment in all the cars (yes, 6 airbags, ABS and others), along with passing the relevant NCAP crash tests to certify the structural integrity of the car. And a wide safety awareness program has to be started to educate that the airbags they have will never deploy if they do not wear their seatbelts, seatbelts for all occupants of the car to be made mandatory.
What do you think the effect will be, if policeman catches you not wearing seatbelt, and confiscates the driving license? Similar thing was done for helmets for two wheelers, and in Coimbatore, the usage of helmets have multiplied several folds.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by The Observer

To be frank i am having a very tough time convincing my folks to buy ( and pay) for a vehicle that has full safety ( 6 airbags not just 2) , for the exact same reasons you mentioned above.

I have tried showing my folks all the various videos regarding side impact protection, i will show them these too and i pray that i get my way

Appreciate your persistence on this. It is hard enough to convince family on the benefits of 2 airbags, leave alone 6.

But would not blame them also. We mostly have the attitude-'This won't happen to me', so to get the mind to accept a premium for something that we think 'I won't need' over something that is more daily use and useful is not easy.

Hope you are successful and able to convince the family.

[BUXX]

Looks like there is one car missing in this lineup..

The Nissan Micra comes with 4 Airbags (but yes, not 6) and should be about 7L OTR (Delhi)

https://www.nissan.in/vehicles/new/micra/features.html

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

...If on a budget, buy a car without airbags but instead retrofit a racing harness (4/5 pt seat belt ). The cost IMO will definitely be lesser than an airbag equipped higher segment car. Getting in and out will take you 5 mins more per ride, but won't that be more safer than 3pt belt + airbags? Why I mention this is because most motorsports do not use airbags as they are properly belted in....

Strongly DISAGREE with you here.

A 5 point seat belt may pin you better to the seat, but its not going to prevent the dashboard/steering wheel from coming and hitting you in case of a frontal impact.

Racing cars are fitted with roll cages, which improve the structure of the passenger cabin, preventing deformity in case of a collision. Your point will become valid if all passenger cars are fitted with racing grade roll cages and 5 point seatbelts, which will not make financial sense. Off road roll cages can cost upto 50k - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ml#post3773344 I imagine racing roll cages will cost at least double that!

[Hemicuda]

Well I had a similar dilemma when I was out to buy my first ride. As I wanted the best bang for my buck since I had not more than 4 Lakhs at my disposal the choices I had were very less considering .Safety was a very big factor for me. Obviously a new car was out of the question.
Went scouting at few dealerships and found a Hyundai Elantra GLS (Old) and got it for way under my budget. For safety it was fully loaded for a vehicle in those days dual airbags,4 disc brakes, ABS, Traction control and good solid build quality. It sold low numbers for a hyundai but never had any problems in terms of service and costs.
And the engine was a beauty, 1.8 lts could easily do 180 and when driven properly would fare as economical as my friends 1.6 ltr cars.

So my point here is we guys in India many times have this fixation of buying a new car which at times makes us overlook on safety features due to our budget constraints.Also the crook manufacturers who when offering safety features charge such a high premium for it making it out of reach of many first time buyers.
I think for the past 5 years or so we have had now in the market some pretty good cars and many of them are out there in the market for the change of hands which people should consider before compromising on safety and going for the low variant of a Hatch.
I am on my 2nd pre-loved car since then and it makes more sense to me than ever.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Strongly DISAGREE with you here.

A 5 point seat belt may pin you better to the seat, but its not going to prevent the dashboard/steering wheel from coming and hitting you in case of a frontal impact.

Racing cars are fitted with roll cages, which improve the structure of the passenger cabin, preventing deformity in case of a collision. Your point will become valid if all passenger cars are fitted with racing grade roll cages and 5 point seatbelts, which will not make financial sense.

My bad. Should have have posted all details about it. You are right, a seatbelt will only help in case of a strong structure. And this will require roll cages. But what about cars like the Punto (base model) and Polo (the old one without airbags) ? Surely they'll benefit from 5 pt harnesses.

Also regarding dashboard/steering coming at you an frontal impacts, even if a car is equipped with airbags it won't make a difference if the structure is weak.

[IshaanIan]

A while back my family was considering a Renault Duster. The AWD version makes a lot of sense and the rugged little thing is the only car in its segment fit to be called a mini-SUV. Magic ride and honest down to earth yet proportionate looks made me forgive the quality of the interiors (it excels in so many other areas) the only thing that held us back, was the pathetic crash safety rating it came with. ENCAP rating of 3 stars meant we squashed the idea before it grew any bit more and the car was immediately disregarded.

Wasn't planning on actually buying it and doing so, but even back then, I was thinking "well what if we fitted it with a roll cage?" Can any experts comment on this? How well integrated can one make a roll-cage for something like the Duster or any daily driver for that matter?

Thanks

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

But what about cars like the Punto (base model) and Polo (the old one without airbags) ? Surely they'll benefit from 5 pt harnesses.

Also regarding dashboard/steering coming at you an frontal impacts, even if a car is equipped with airbags it won't make a difference if the structure is weak.

Sorry, still disagree with a 5 point harness in a road car. If your hypothesis was right, why aren't supercars equipped with 5 point harnesses? Even the Nissan GTR comes with a regular seatbelt!

In frontal impacts, the airbag will act as a cushion between the steering wheel and you, thus minimising the direct impact you have to face. The structure remaining a constant, the airbag will definitely make a difference compared to no airbag!