[anand.shankar]

Originally Posted by i74js

I have checked it myself for Figo, though I not own one. It was there for a accidental repair while I was for a regular service of my ford. Only the dual airbag dashboard along with steering column was for 1.05. Labor extra, I am sure if not 1.5, it can surely touch 1.25 Lac and when this is part of a frontal collision, along with other repairs and replacements it can certainly exceed 1.5 Lac.

Mind it, companies will not sympathize with you when it comes to repairs and will milk money for the mistake.

Cheers !

True, but so does any accident which has frontal impact. Does insurance cover the airbag part ?

[i74js]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

True, but so does any accident which has frontal impact. Does insurance cover the airbag part ?

Yes certainly, but the reimbursement is based on IDV of the car. Therefore the older the car the less will be contribution from insurance companies. I need to check if it is considered at par with plastic parts and thus only 50% of reimbursement.

If that is the case for a frontal collision which has resulted in airbag deployment - 50k+ straight goes out of the owners pocket and allied contribution for other repairs alongside.

None the less, life is costlier against anything.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by i74js

I need to check if it is considered at par with plastic parts and thus only 50% of reimbursement.

Yes, they pay only 50% as per the rubber and plastic clause. Another loop hole exploit by insurance companies. It is really unfortunate authorities are not paying attention to these and amending rules accordingly. I am not sure about the the new bumper to bumper insurance schemes. I think the govt. if not manufacturers should do everything they can to motivate people to buy safer cars along with new crash test rules for product quality benchmark.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The variant tested was without airbags. That's a default 0 rating.

I wonder why they even bother with further tests. Any car sold in the indian /international markets without dual airbags is at rating zero.

That's not the case.

Adithya writes in with the following:

I was going through the thread "India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test ".

Just wanted to point out that cars without airbags doesn't mean a default "0" rating. Fiat Palio and Ford Ka still received a single star rating without having any airbag
http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/fiat-palio-elx-en.pdf (Fiat Palio) http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/ford-ka-en.pdf (Ford Ka)

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by GTO

That's not the case.

Adithya writes in with the following:

Hi Adithya,

Thanks and partially agreed. Why partially? Because technically you are right. However, if you analyze the bigger picture, the difference between the 1 and 0 star is purely mathematical!

I've tried to explain such scenarios in the thread- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-picture.html

Allow me to explain with one of the examples pointed out vs the car under discussion here. Fiat Palio v/s Hyundai Grand i10.

Hyundai Grand i10
Driver has no chance of survival since head protection is poor.
Co-driver has good head protection, marginal chest protection, marginal femur protection and marginal



Fiat Palio
Driver has no chance of survival since head protection is poor.
Co-driver has good head protection, marginal chest protection, marginal femur protection and adequate leg protection.



There is nothing much to differentiate between the co-driver injuries in both cases. Both fare equally good (or bad!). However, Palio offers better (weak against poor in the Grand i10) chest and femur protection for the driver (who is dead anyways from the poor head protection). The 1 star Palio without airbags may have the same results in a crash as the 0 star Grand i10 without airbags. Star ratings alone doesn't convey the exact picture IMO.

However, the main difference here evident from the analysis is that - Palio with airbags will fare much better than Grand i10 with airbags as the inherent integrity of the body structure is clearly evident in the results. If the grave head injury can be avoided with an airbag in the Palio, it is eligible to score a lot more points compared to the Grand i10. Now this is something not really evident from the star ratings though.

So mathematically, you are right. 1 star rating is possible for a car without airbags. But I still keep my view that both those ratings are irrelevant. Airbags and seatbelts are a must to have any decent chance of survival for the driver.

[Speed Pujari]

I am surprised that people wait for the star rating to ascertain safety of a car. The weak built is evident once u touch or drive any hyundai car.
I do not understand people blaming the government.
Its a matter of common sense that if you eat roadside food then there is a chance to get bad tummy. why not avoid taking chances and grab Safer food?
It was OK to blame the government in this case if better alternative wasn't available. U can't be dependent on govt for everything, sometimes common sense takes over herd mentality.

My colleague bought i10 grand sports even after I shared plenty of online references about Hyundai sub standard built quality. Till date he is unable to prove his point. He terms buying a Hyundai as 'investment'. This is nothing but utter lack of common sense.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

I am surprised that people wait for the star rating to ascertain safety of a car. The weak built is evident once u touch or drive any hyundai car.

Hyundai falls short of FIAT and Volkswagen when compared to build, but is actually better than other brands like Maruti Suzuki and Honda. A Grand i10 feels better built in terms of the feel of sheet metal as compared to the premium C segment cars like City and Ciaz.

The 'feel' you are referring to cannot be interpreted as safety. However, being the owner of both FIAT and Hyundai cars (and MS, VW cars in the immediate family circle) - I agree with you that the Europeans feel a lot better to use, even if it's just opening and closing a door!

[JonSnow]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

The weak built is evident once u touch or drive any hyundai car.

I don't think you can gauge the structural integrity by touch and feel. Note the crash test results of Toyota Etios. It scored a decent 4 stars even though it has a very light build and feels flimsy on touching. You can see in the video that the passenger cabin remains intact unlike the Swift and Grand i10. In fact, it scored slightly more than Volkswagen Polo in adult occupant safety.

[heavenlybull]

We also have the Grand i10 and the doors do close with a 'premium thunk' sound and not like the cheap 'clunk' associated with most Japanese cars. They don't feel overly light too. However all that false sense of security evaporated after seeing the crash results.

Looking at the video again and again, the car's metal crumbles really really bad after the A pillar. The driver's door can be seen bending a lot more than it should have (we have Indian Swift, polo and Figo videos as comparison). At the bottom, the crumbling continues all the way to the rear tire!

Someone has re-posted the Indian swift crash video in this thread, and I will have to admit that Swift contains the damage much better than Grand i10. No doubt about it.

I am not buying another Hyundai until crash tests become a law in India.

PS: Are we sure the Toyota Etios tested by Latin NCAP was made in India? I can't find a reference on their site regarding this. Even if its made in India but meant for export, we can't be sure that the vehicles sold in India and abroad have the same structural quality.

[Rev_That_V8]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Good point! We infact have heard of India-made Duster getting flak in the UK market for rusting issues.


That indeed is the sad reality. We have heard of 300+ changed components for the Ecosport exported to the UK. The Ecosport sold in domestic market is relatively safe, but it's still appalling that they have different production-lines. The Vento is another example - the Polo sedan in Malaysia gets three 3-point seatbelts for the rear occupants (see pic below), whereas for Indian customers that luxury is available in cars which will cost around 20 lakhs and above!

Attachment 1415043
Picture source: VW Malaysia

No personal attachment with Ford or Volkswagen(VW) vehicles. In my opinion DNA of the brand has an essential role to play.

The cost of an Ecosport in the UK roughly starts at 14000 GBP ex-showroom which is roughly 14lakh rupees. And in India it starts at roughly 6-7 lakhs ex-showroom. It's the buying capacity of the customer in play + taxes.
Yet the Ecosport (it doesn't have different production lines) is a safe car in India because Ford in its DNA has safety as a first priority requirement.

Additionally, in the Ecosport I don't see substantial differences between the entry trim for UK and the top trim for India on the safety fronts.
Same goes for VWs as well.

To play fair, from a manufacturer point of view it is appalling to ask for a car with 5* NCAP with all the features such as a thick steel body ,3+ airbags and price it at less than 10 lakhs, when the average customer in India is ready to buy a car with less safety features.

When a customer goes to the showroom he cannot "see" safety features whereas colorful stuffs like a cool ICE will attract buyers - this attraction is present everywhere but with a higher amount in Indians. That makes manufacturers skimp on features that cannot be seen.

You can beef up an Alto to meet 5* NCAP. But, at the price of 8+ lakhs no one/very few will buy it. Mass produced manufacturers want sales to be above par so that they can sell the product consistently at that price and see profits.

Some manufacturers skimp on safety and later end up with a 0 in the NCAP.

As many here said before, Its the average customer who should define the product and the manufacturer who should design the product and the government that should regulate the manufacturer. Any chaos here will result in a bad product.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Rev_That_V8

Yet the Ecosport (it doesn't have different production lines) is a safe car in India because Ford in its DNA has safety as a first priority requirement.

The problem is just that this statement above is an assumption. Just like every other car "built in India". A company having safety as its priority doesn't need so many structural changes to meet Euro NCAP norms, does it? So we can only assume that the cars are safe.

Same goes with any of the other made for India cars. Verna 4S, the original i20, the new Creta etc were launched with a special emphasis on safety. Does that make Hyundai any better?

I'd say - till we have an independent body in India assessing these cars for crash worthiness- all that we are doing is to hope against hope!

[JonSnow]

Originally Posted by heavenlybull

PS: Are we sure the Toyota Etios tested by Latin NCAP was made in India? I can't find a reference on their site regarding this. Even if its made in India but meant for export, we can't be sure that the vehicles sold in India and abroad have the same structural quality.

No there's no reference that it's made in India and we can't be sure if the vehicles sold in India have the same structure. My point was just that we can't judge structural quality by touch and feel and that it's possible to have a light car with good structure. Only a crash test will reveal the truth but unfortunately we don't have that process in place.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Rev_That_V8

To play fair, from a manufacturer point of view it is appalling to ask for a car with 5* NCAP with all the features such as a thick steel body ,3+ airbags and price it at less than 10 lakhs, when the average customer in India is ready to buy a car with less safety features.

Who's decision is it to produce a mini SUV at under 6 lacs?
If given a chance, won't Ford or vw produce the same under equipped, safety wise, car in Europe?

[Rev_That_V8]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The problem is just that this statement above is an assumption. Just like every other car "built in India". A company having safety as its priority doesn't need so many structural changes to meet Euro NCAP norms, does it? So we can only assume that the cars are safe.

Same goes with any of the other made for India cars. Verna 4S, the original i20, the new Creta etc were launched with a special emphasis on safety. Does that make Hyundai any better?

I'd say - till we have an independent body in India assessing these cars for crash worthiness- all that we are doing is to hope against hope!

Structural changes unless we point where the changes were made and how they affect safety for Indian roads - fingers crossed and Ford-India made its debut into Europe exports with the Ecosport so this is not a surprise that they changed some components for EU and changing components to fit market needs will happen in case of any global platform.

What I am trying to say is that if both UK and India pay the same price and receive a relatively less safe car then there's something fishy, but here the implied need of the customer has less points for safety so we ourselves give the manufacturer the upper hand to reduce safety is what I am trying to emphasize.
In the above case for VW and Ford the customer is protected so its fine.

As far as Hyundai is concerned I fear the situation as the ratings doesn't look like it makes a huge difference in India, we have had swift and Datsun Go receive 0 ratings at Global NCAP last year and yet Swift is topping sales charts with no visible changes to its structure. Datsun Go is also doing decent numbers.

Boycotting will teach them a good lesson as a Bhpian pointed out here.

Government should make safety features as a legal homologation requirement (at least they are making airbags as standard now which is a good sign).
Its also worse that manufacturers point >2 airbags, ABS + ESP + EBD and TCS as a special feature whereas, these are standard in EU, US, etc. as a part of their homologation requirement.

Our country has few regards to individual organizations but, you're right! having one will help people like us who are safety wary. Its better if ARAI considers testing & making manufacturers print crash ratings under the fuel Km/l label/card.

[Rev_That_V8]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Who's decision is it to produce a mini SUV at under 6 lacs?
If given a chance, won't Ford or vw produce the same under equipped, safety wise, car in Europe?

It is competition and Ford's decision to make an entry price at 6+ lakhs. It's also the conscious decision of the buyer to get a safer trim option. If no one bought the less safe trim it wouldn't be there on charts.

"If given a chance, won't Ford or VW produce the same under equipped, safety wise, car in Europe?"

Maybe ill rephrase this. if market(average of us)+regulations(the govt.) want such an equally safe car as its European counterpart then we can make Ford/VW produce the same over equipped car for Indian market at a higher price.
After all it's we customers who define the product. Like swachh bharat , we may need a gaadi suraksha campaign to educate people on choosing car safety needs instead of audio systems or some other electronic witchcrafts