Team-BHP
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Road Safety
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https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-safety/)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850355)
Why is the onus on the owner? It should be on FORD. Who do you think is more capable of a full expert analysis on what actually happened here?
Why the heck can't Ford do a proper analysis on what exactly caused this failure and tell the owner? What have they got to hide?
End of the day, it's the customer who pays 10 lakhs to Ford. This is the least that Ford can do. Ford NEEDS to provide answers to the owner. Ford is ANSWERABLE to the owner.
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Agree with you. The failure is not small, whatever the cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 3850492)
There is no onus on the owner,just that the OP could clear a few things out and provide a little more clarity so that discussions are relevant.
A few more pictures wouldn't exactly be traumatising. Some people have presented some excellent theories as to what could've happened( both in favour of ford and against) and throwing a little more light may be of further help here.
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Never thought that I will mention this, but the way wheel has got inside the body, its as good as what happens during offset crash testing. I am sure we all have had a look at those NCAP crash tests.
A bit of my story, but related to damage that can be caused and associated failures.
Attached herewith are a few images of my Wagon R which my sister managed to crash quite a while ago. It was early morning, very less traffic and all of a sudden a newpaper/milkman decided to change lane on a downward slope of a flyover.
To avoid hitting the individual on two wheels, my sister crashed the Wagon R into divider ( which is visible in one of images in a small way ). Car went onto divider, RHS side, but as it was end of downward slope, the distance between left side wheels and road increased, the car ended up on LHS side and was dragged a bit. No human injury or anything, only damage to machine.
You can see that even when a "Tin Can" Wagon R hits divider on its RHS side, and there is visible damage to chassis, WHEEL HAS NOT FALLEN OFF. Lower arm is damaged, so is the tie rod, and even apron was a bit out, but the wheel did not get dislocated neither did the wheel end up damaging body. All this on a small car doing around 60-65. The point of impact is below headlamp to the point where headlamp meets grille.
So how can a Ford Ecosport, which is obviously is better built than a Wagon R, suffer this much damage. Even if its a tyre burst, such structural damage and dislocation should not happen. My friends have suffered tyre bursts on expressway ( NE-1 ) at 110 in Swift Dzire, Swift, Innova. But in no case did the wheel come off or damage of lower arm, tie rod.
There is no Frontal impact to Ecosport and any damage to under-body should not have resulted into so much damage. Even one recovery bottle can be seen to be dismounted from its original location. There is something more than just a tyre burst. And, if a Wagon R, even after crashing into divider, so much that it toppled on left side, dragged, did not have such serious damage to wheel, drive-shaft, EcoSport, under normal circumstances cannot have so much damage.
The cases of Wagon R and Ecosport mentioned here can have multiple differences and many factors, but in general damage to ecosport should not be this much without any external impact.
@Mods : Sorry for writing down my own story and getting a bit offtopic, but I could not find any other way to indicate that Ford atleast owes a proper investigation to owner.
For the Wagon R, its still with me, has better part throttle responses than my Swift and Waggie after repairs still brakes in a straight line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusticnomad
(Post 3850711)
While statistical sampling (to avoid each and every item from the batch being tested) for testing is true for less critical nuts and bolts for example, but for critical parts each one of them goes through non destructive tests like ultrasound, dye penetration tests etc to ensure that no defective part goes through to make it to the vehicle.
Also, parts like axle and shaft etc go (should go) through a robotic/automated testing too -- not sure if they went in this case.
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Thank you rusticnomad for the info. Yes ford should do a proper investigation, just putting the blame on tyre burst is not going to help them in the long run. Regarding quality tests as you say if such processes are there its unlikely to be skipped whatever be the production pressures but it could have definitely been rushed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami
(Post 3850797)
...
So how can a Ford Ecosport, which is obviously is better built than a Wagon R, suffer this much damage. Even if its a tyre burst, such structural damage and dislocation should not happen. My friends have suffered tyre bursts on expressway ( NE-1 ) at 110 in Swift Dzire, Swift, Innova. But in no case did the wheel come off or damage of lower arm, tie rod.
There is no Frontal impact to Ecosport and any damage to under-body should not have resulted into so much damage.
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The last image shows skid mark stretching back to the culvert. My guess is when turning near the culvert, the tyre caught something at speed, which turned the LHS tyre almost 90 degree, causing all the subsequent damage. Now, the Camber force angle on wheels is normally -5 to +5 degree. Imagine the LHS tyre turning perpendicular. The camber force angle will be 180 degree (1/2 the circle). All other 3 wheels are traveling horizontally. LHS tyre alone is perpendicular. So what happens? The inertia of 3 wheels against a complete stop of one wheel results in downward speed vector. The resultant force slams the car body downwards with great force, which caused all the damages. An offset frontal crash would have caused less damage than this sudden turning of one wheel.
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850965)
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident. Attachment 1441212
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Have been following this thread for a while and am so happy and glad to hear that Ford has finally launched an investigation into the incident.
Good to note that Ford is ready for investigation. Any which way, this is good for Ford; if there is a QA QC problem, corrective actions can be taken by Ford, if the customer is at fault, well the insurance will cover the repair (with goodwill from Ford, as stated in the communication) which presents a case for good customer care.
Is there any timeline given for investigation? Where and how it will be carried out? Will there be someone from Ford US truck centre participate - I understand it was designed there in 2001-02 and launched in Brazil in 2003?
I am hooked to this thread.
Good luck !
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850965)
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident. Attachment 1441212
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Glad to hear Ford has finally agreed for an investigation. This will help building Ford's commitment towards satisfying its customers. clap:.
Was it media pressure that made them do so? Discussions in this thread should have contributed to that, I am sure.
As a Ford customer, I feel a bit relieved to hear this.
Hooked to the thread. The attitude of most of the companies in India is not helping at all, and to top it all we dont have strong laws protecting consumers.
The news of investigation comes as a relief, now looking forward to what results Ford's Investigation throw and what course of action Ford takes next.
All the Best!
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh
(Post 3848986)
This is scary and as an ecosport owner I'm worried. I've sent a mail to custmail@ford.com quoting this tread and expressed my concern.
Going through the components which attributed to 2.9L I noticed front speakers, entire dashboard etc.. in the list too which is kind of surprising. I seriously think that these guys extrapolate the figures by including all the unnecessary stuff and rip-off insurance companies
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As mentioned I too sent a mail to ford quoting this incident. This is the response I got from ford
Dear Akhilesh Khurana,
First of all, thanks for giving us an opportunity to address your apprehensions on our quality products. I hope by the time you end up reading this communique, we would have reinstated your faith and earned your confidence in Ford products.
Concerning the incident referred in your mail, let me clarify that our dealership team along with third-party insurance and supplier have found the incident to have caused due to an external impact. It is not remotely reflective of the product quality.
Given that such incidents /accidents do not fall in under warranty, we have already intimated the customer to initiate an insurance claim. We are committed to customers and are providing all the necessary assistance so that this vehicle can be repaired and delivered at the earliest.
Please be assured that Ford vehicles are built in line with our global standards and offer world-class quality and safety. Knowing you are safe means a lot to all of us at Ford.
I hope we have been able to address your concerns. Do feel free to write to us for anything else we can assist you. We look forward to welcoming you to the Ford family.
Kind Regards,
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850965)
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident.
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About time! If Ford engineers have even an iota of curiosity, they would be falling over each other to investigate this interesting (sorry if that sounds insensitive) case. Hope the thread is updated with Ford's conclusions after investigation is completed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850965)
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident.
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What I like is the quick turnaround by Ford - within 1 week we have gone from an insurance quote to an investigation! Now eagerly waiting to see the official diagnosis and hope all ends well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 3850965)
Poornima got a conference call from Ford. Ford experts are launching an investigation into this incident clap:clap:
Finally - look forward to the root cause of this accident.
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This brings joy to my heart. I would like to appreciate the response of Ford albeit a bit late. I hope Ford learns from this incident and establishes a new benchmark in customer service in India. I would also like to thank TeamBHP for highlighting this issue. The important lesson learnt is "Yes We Can" !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_rider
(Post 3847355)
I suspect the steering tie rod on passenger side
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi
(Post 3847469)
The Tie rod is cheap but super critical. Would be interesting to know if they recently aligned the car and the Jam nut on the tie rod was not torqued properly. It takes a lot for the tie rod to break.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs
(Post 3848166)
One can just look at the tie rod end, and you can make out of its sheared off, or the nut just came loose.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit
(Post 3848915)
I believe this is a classic case of Tie Rod failure
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I hope the owner has taken pics of Tie Rod End and Tie Rod Joint also.
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Went through the pictures again.
Look at the encircled part of attached image. Tie rod looks bent. If tie rod end had broken or somehow come off from the knuckle, tie rod would have been hanging loose, which its not. Its bent, which means it was very much connected as the wheel turned perpendicular to the direction of motion, and was still in place after the mishap.
I am with the people who think the wheel hit that culvert, and the rest of the car somehow just glanced/avoided it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_rider
(Post 3851393)
Went through the pictures again.
Look at the encircled part of attached image. Tie rod looks bent. If tie rod end had broken or somehow come off from the knuckle, tie rod would have been hanging loose, which its not. Its bent, which means it was very much connected as the wheel turned perpendicular to the direction of motion, and was still in place after the mishap.
I am with the people who think the wheel hit that culvert, and the rest of the car somehow just glanced/avoided it.
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Have to agree with your observation. :thumbs up
Also, it's good from FORD's part to hold an inquiry into this incident and hope it is transparent and ethical enough to come up with the exact cause so as to avoid unwarranted frustration at the owners and the future owners of this good car.
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