[maddy42]

To add to the misery when a Engineer from IIT leads to decisions like Ban of 2000 cc and CNG, then god save this country. We thought educated leaders mattered sometime back. Guess not anymore.

Maddy

[deehunk]

The reality is, all OEM fitted CNG and LPG kits is an outsourced job and just carries the approval from a car manufacturer. The small rectangular metal plate near the fuel gate has the information about external company which installs the LPG or CNG kit.

[drmohitg]

This is just like the Sun film or diesel ban. Its not about AK. Its about the overall government and now Judiciary's new found self realization that they can play havoc with the citizens of this country. So right, left and centre, they are coming up with these judgments and rules where the easiest way is to Ban things completely without addressing their shortcomings or assessing why things are wrong and where are they wrong.

[amrisharm]

India is really going overboard with the idea of "Banning" things when there are already rules in place to monitor things.

1) Car Tints Banned

Well there was a perfectly good law in place that said if a tint provides 70% visibility to the insides of any car then it would be legal. But instead of implementing that rule, the authorities decided, 90% visibility or 20% visibility, just ban it all!

2) 2000cc or above diesel engines, 15 year old cars banned in Delhi and Kerela.

Well all states have rules that state that every car should have a pollution certificate. Here in West Bengal your pollution certificate is valid for 6 months. So there is already a perfectly good rule in place. Whether your car is 20 yrs old or 4000cc. If your car passes that pollution test then it should not matter. If Pollution centers are giving out fake pollution certificates, then the govt should be cracking down on such pollution centers. But no. Instead what do the authorities do? Ban 2000cc and above diesel vehicles. Ban 15 yrs or older vehicles.

3) Now Ban Non-manufacturer fitted CNG kits.

Ok I understand the safety aspects of it. But what the authorities Should do is check and prosecute non authorised workshops that fit these kits. Regulate and put a system in place so that authorised fitters can maybe provide a govt. approved certificate that they can give to the customer to prove that the CNG kit was fitted in an authorised center. But instead, the authorities decided to just BAN the whole thing.

My apologies if this post comes off too strong, but this "Banning" culture is getting to out of control.

[CarJunki]

This is a step by elitist government.
Ban CNG conversion, who is impacted people who drive smaller petrol car for city commute or commute to offices. It seems that extortion mechanisms are not delivering enough money to politicians so Delhi govt comes out with a temporary BAN, then bring odd-even and run a scam for the sake of making additional buses available.

If the government is not good at increasing the size of pie, this is the kind of scam that is designed by them.

[sgiitk]

@maddy42; Literacy and Education are different issues. So he is literate but not educated.

Populism get you so far and not further. Now that odd-even had crashed this is the new joke.

[apachelongbow]

The people have voted for the leader that they deserve!! One one hand the supremely holy NGT is pushing private car owners to go green by banning so called old cars and 'highly polluting' >2000 cc diesels, and on the other hand the divinely talented great leader feels that converting a 'polluting vehicle' to a green one via CNG is a colossal waste of resource. Any simple mind can also understand that its better to green an existing 'dirty car' than scrap it and build a new 'green car', the carbon footprint of a new build increases pollution exponentially, but I am sure the IIT educated holy soul must know better.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by amrisharm

India is really going overboard with the idea of "Banning" things when there are already rules in place to monitor things.

1) Car Tints Banned

2) 2000cc or above diesel engines, 15 year old cars banned in Delhi and Kerela... If Pollution centers are giving out fake pollution certificates, then the govt should be cracking down on such pollution centers...

3) Now Ban Non-manufacturer fitted CNG kits... the authorities Should do is check and prosecute non authorised workshops that fit these kits...

the authorities decided to just BAN the whole thing...

I completely agree with your thoughts. The situation is becoming increasingly frustrating. Not only politicians, but the so called educated and full-of-wisdom judges are behaving in insane manner.

In case of sunfilms, the main concern was visibility inside the vehicle. But at the same time judges should have understood that sun-films (or equivalent heat control methods) are vital in Indian conditions. More than comfort, they reduce the total heat load on vehicle's AC systems and help in saving the precious fuel.

If there was no control over the sun-films, so while banning them judges should have directed all the manufacturers to adopt proper heat control glasses with high levels of IR rejection and still maintaining the VLT levels as per existing laws across variants (not the shoddy tinted glasses as currently marketed on higher variants as 'features').

As per my friend in glass industry, the glass manufacturers have capability and technology to make such glasses, only if vehicle manufacturers place orders for the same. Infact the net price-up will be less than the add-on sunfilm that customers get in aftermarket.

But then who can teach the judges, politicians and authorities. While vehicle manufacturers wait for their bean counters to say yes before they take first leap !!!

[nitrogary]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Also, implement Euro 6 norms immediately. Almost all engines today can meet high emission norms if you add certain components. (eg. DPF)

I can only laugh at this statement. You need to do some more research on Euro 6 and DPFs / SCRs.

You need to change almost every performance related component - pistons, rings, fuel systems, turbos, EGR, oil, engine calibration, etc. to meet euro 6 from a euro 3 / 4 engine.

The amount of work which it takes to meet emissions is also huge.

I don't know much, but whatever I do is from spending 10 years of my professional life working exclusively on diesel engines, turbochargers and fuel injection systems to meet emissions, durability and performance requirements.

[su1978]

As someone mentioned in his posts, it is a result of some very severe lobbying by the directors of Maruti Suzuki India Limited. By the virtue of them holding some very influential position either in Govt of India or by serving as directors of some other very big companies, they are very easily manipulating the market. Let me list them down one by one.

1. Mr R.C. Bhargava-Indian Administrative Services (1st in batch), Joint Secretary, Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India. Other companies where he is also serving as director-Dabur, IL&FS, Polaris, RCB consulting, Thomson Press, Ultra tech cement

2. Mr Amal Ganguly-Member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales, Member of the Board and Chairman of the Audit Committee, Maruti. Other companies where he holds some very prominent positions are AIG, Aricent, Century Tiles, HCL technologies, Huges Communication, ICRA, NDTV, Tata communications to name a few.

3. Mr D.S.Brar-Held various positions such as Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director, President / Senior Vice President, General Manager and Business Development Manager at Ranbaxy Laboratories Limited. Member of the National Council of the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII). Member of CII's Indian MNCs Council. Served as Director of Reserve Bank of India (RBI)

4. Ms Pallavi Shroff-Independent Director, Maruti Suzuki India Limited. She is the lead litigation partner at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co., Advocates & Solicitors, New Delhi. As a member of several high-powered committees appointed by the Government of India, she has been associated closely with several important commercial statutes. Other board membership includes indusInd bank, Juniper hotels Pvt ltd, Kotak Mahindra.

All the above information is available on the website of maruti Suzuki India limited

If we see, the Japanese directors are involved in production and other departments but marketing and sales involves only Indians. These directors hold such strong positions that they can change any corporate decision and influence lawmakers in our country

We all know that Delhi/NCR accounts for maximum vehicle sales in India. And under the current setup in Delhi(odd-even), to boost sales of company fitted CNG powered vehicles- currently being sold only by MSIL, these directors keep on manipulating those in power. This is causing great inconvenience to we common people. One cannot imagine a person who has bought a second hand alto/maruti 800 for few thousand rupees to get it CNG fitted by spending almost the same amount again from some Authorised service station. The excuse is the safety and security of after market CNG fitments. If authority is so concerned, then why do they not enforce ABS and airbags in all the vehicles sold in India. Secondly, if they intend to control pollution, then why do not make all pollution testing centres online. Only those vehicles with proper pollution under control certificate would be given fuel.

The truth is that the Govt is trying to earn money by trying to force common man to buy company fitted CNG vehicle which is costlier by around 50000/-. This currently is being sold only by MSIL or Hyundai. Please note that these companies are already #1 and #2 in terms of passenger Vehicle sales. Since MSIL does not make any goods vehicles, hence mahindra/piaggio & other companies are allowed to make CNG vehicles.

Just Speculating, any other company which tries to bring in those vehicles may either not be given permission or legal obstacles would have got created.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by nitrogary

You need to change almost every performance related component - pistons, rings, fuel systems, turbos, EGR, oil, engine calibration, etc. to meet euro 6 from a euro 3 / 4 engine.

I know a man who told me that this is the case for Honda. He knew a couple people in the R& D. Their diesel engine in India was a stripped down version of the European model.

Also, to save costs, the components are the same throughout the world across the same generation engine.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

... diesel engine in India was a stripped down version of the European model... Also, to save costs, the components are the same throughout the world across the same generation engine.

This is the important bit that you left out in the earlier post and hence got subjected to over-the-top sarcasm.

In the scenario, if an engine is already developed for Euro6 compliance then it takes much less time, cost and effort to make it work with Euro 4 (or BS 4) compliant fuel. But even in this case, thorough validation needs to be done.

If an OEM doesn't already have a Euro 6 compliant engine and package protected zones (for additional components as mentioned by nitrogary), then the amount of work needed is huge.

Speaking of this, all the OEMs who are selling vehicles in Europe have Euro 6 compliant engines in their portfolio. Hence, they have the necessary know-how and experience for making BS-VI engines for India market. This provides an edge to such OEMs. It is primarily the Indian OEMs (who don't export to Europe) who will face the steepest challenge. Also, the supply chain for BS-VI specific components is not yet well established in India.

Originally Posted by nitrogary

You need to do some more research on Euro 6 and DPFs / SCRs.... You need to change almost every performance related component... The amount of work which it takes to meet emissions is also huge...

While I agree with your point and feelings, the sarcasm was unnecessary. We are enthusiasts and may not necessarily be conversant in technical aspects, so we are bound to make wrong assumptions/ statements. In such instances we hope that we will be corrected on this forum and will have opportunity to learn.

Moreover, apart from changes in engines, the additional components needed for Euro6 / BSVI may not be packagable in existing vehicles. So in many cases, the existing vehicle may be stopped and new product is launched.

[dZired]

Delhi Government to revoke ban on CNG retrofitment

The Delhi Government had recently put a ban on after-market CNG kit fitment in 'in-use' cars, citing safety related issues. This decision was condemned by car owners as well as fitment centres. Now, the State Transport Minister, Satyendar Jain has indicated that the Government is planning to lift this ban, after taking strict steps to cure the earlier issue.

As a result, the Delhi Government will soon be issuing an official order to all Motor Licensing Officers (MLOs) in the state, which will allow them to restart registration of cars that have been retrofitted with CNG kits.

On June 20, the Government instructed all MLOs to stop registration of cars that have after-market CNG kits. This ban was ordered after the state government received many complaints regarding various unauthorised and uncertified CNG kits being installed, which was a huge safety concern. As a result, a temporary ban on retrofitment of CNG kits was enforced, until further orders.

The Government now claims to have taken strict steps against the unauthorised kits, and thus has decided to lift the ban.

Source: PTI

Link to Team-BHP News

[sgiitk]

After all this hullabaloo about pollution. I have one simple question - how often do they check fuel quality (esp Diesel) at the fuel bunks, and how many pumps has action been taken over the past year. I guess this is more a matter of 'hafta'.

Just see the number of threads here on 'Reliable fuel bunks in abc'.

[nitrogary]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

While I agree with your point and feelings, the sarcasm was unnecessary.

Moreover, apart from changes in engines, the additional components needed for Euro6 / BSVI may not be packagable in existing vehicles. So in many cases, the existing vehicle may be stopped and new product is launched.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I know a man who told me that this is the case for Honda. He knew a couple people in the R& D. Their diesel engine in India was a stripped down version of the European model.

Also, to save costs, the components are the same throughout the world across the same generation engine.

Landcruiser123 - I apologize. No disrespect was intended.

Maybe for petrols it is possible to install an upgrade purely from an emissions perspective. An SCR makes sense but is quite difficult to execute in India.

Packaging is indeed a constraint and there can be significant differences in some parts making it a challenge to have common parts. A trade off on this is also going to be optimization of performance.