[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Airbags, seatbelts, ABS - these are still deemed as useless stuff for a car, unfortunately.

A huge, roomy cabin, dollops of chrome inside and outside, plethora of features and a giant boot - these sell a car. Nothing else matters.

Can't blame Renault for shortchanging the entire market with a compromised Kwid, because it is here to make profits. When other companies continue to sell much higher segment cars without airbags and questionable structural rigidity, why should a 3-lakh budget-segment car be singled out?

Well Said Sir. As long as the market laps cars without sub-standard safety features, manufacturers will continue to sell us death traps. Only the Central Govt can step in and make them comply with crash test norms and safety features.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by ramharis

Iam not sure why people are blaming the government and car manufacturer.

Originally Posted by deevee

One thing for sure I will not buy a Renault car for certain.

Originally Posted by puneeth2

Yes, isn't it better not to have a variant without these safety features?

Three differing points of view here, one where the people should bear responsibility for their choices, another where an informed choice (though overzealous) is made, and the last where legislation is believed to be the answer and possibly responsible.

Instead of lamenting the choices of Indian customers, let us understand the Indian customer.

• They are generally poorly educated on how to drive, leave alone safe driving
• The vast majority of them do not know how a car works
• There are a few clear priorities/driving factors in the purchase of a car, status being quite high in the list followed closely by value for money. Safety isn't even on that list

Tackling the pathetic illiteracy of our drivers should be the first priority, and that should include ones own and the safety of others on the road.

Given that we are illiterate, I think the government should understand that and make minimum safety features a requirement to protect us from ourselves at the very least.

We then move on to the safety of others - pedestrians, smaller cars and two wheelers.

A point to note is that most of us have pointed out the poor protection of passengers within the car, but the Kwid that deforms like a packet of chips will probably save the life of a pedestrian in an accident.

What about underrun protection in trucks and buses? I still don't see them in a large number of trucks.

While we can joke about our belief as a nation on karma and the afterlife, the truth is that we are like the private contractors hired to build a complex piece of equipment for the government - We will buy something that looks good, fits the minimum requirements, and costs as little as possible. If the minimum equipment list didn't specify it, it isn't there.

The Kwid as an example fits right into that slot, and until legislation or public demand doesn't force a manufacturer to change, they will keep selling such cars. People have a long way to go, so I hope the government comes up with a stronger law than the proposed one where airbags are still optional.

PS. I know I've been pretty harsh here, but it is time to call a spade a spade. We are responsible for the cars sold to us, be it due to lack of awareness of safety or just plain apathy.

[puneeth2]

Originally Posted by VeluM

Tackling the pathetic illiteracy of our drivers should be the first priority, and that should include ones own and the safety of others on the road.

Given that we are illiterate, I think the government should understand that and make minimum safety features a requirement to protect us from ourselves at the very least.

That's again back to the governing authority. First safety feature in a car is the driver himself. Yes, it's time majority of Indians are taught how to drive. I see people driving with headlight in highbeam for crying out loud. Don't even get me started on lane discipline, overtaking, taking a turn etc. There should be a stringent requirement to get a drivers' licence. We already have enough morons on road.

Originally Posted by VeluM

A point to note is that most of us have pointed out the poor protection of passengers within the car, but the Kwid that deforms like a packet of chips will probably save the life of a pedestrian in an accident.

Yes, it should crumple to a certain level to absorb the impact. Not so much that it deforms the cabin. That in no way a good sign.

[anjan_c2007]

Cattle class due to our policies. Even if a less developed country like Brazil gets superior cars, we need to condemn our system created by the government that breeds such decisions by companies. It is evidently the tax quantum that the companies cite, which make them unaffordable to the pockets and this is why such disparities occur. That is if these Brazilian safety features are added on the Indian Kwid, its price may reach that of the higher B segment cars like the Swift/ i 10 Grand/ Micra and so on. What sort of tax policies are we following even after 25 years of liberalisation and globalisation ?

We need to be totally ashamed of the tax disparities and the import duties as far as the automobile sector is concerned. Neither the bureaucrats nor the politicians have any firm grasp of the complicated automobile tax structure that is a great deterrent here. But the same struacture is made even more complicated every year.

Just when the Swift and DZire scored a NCAP ZERO STAR , the British market's Swift had four stars. And India provides the bread and butter for Suzuki Motor Corpn.

Shame for the world's fifth largest global car maker.

The link shown by carmayogi in his first post here on this thread is not activating. I traced this link working as of now:

http://indianautosblog.com/2016/07/r...heavier-237155

[saion666]

The Indians buying Kwid are mostly first time car buyers or buying it as a second car for errands.
Now the point to consider over here is that Kwid is being compared to a two wheeler in these cases. The kwid replaces the two wheeler or the auto in most cases, hence people are least bothered about crash test results.

[Nissan1180]

I read the Foreign Market Access Report from Brazil.

2.4.3 Front Airbags in Vehicles
On March 19, 2009, the Brazilian federal government announced that President Luiz Inácio da
Silva had signed an bill, requiring that front airbags be installed on all the motor vehicles placed
on the Brazilian market, be they domestically produced or imported. According to the Act, except
vehicles destined for export, all the vehicles manufactured in Brazil must be equipped with front
airbags, and this rule shall be phased-in to apply to vehicles already sold in the Brazilian market
within 5 years.

So the Brazilian Government understands the value of life and ensures that its citizens are safe. Even ABS is mandatory for cars sold there. The reverse is true in India-cars made for export markets are better equipped than the cars sold within the country.
But I really think the discussion should proceed beyond airbags. It cannot be that airbags are a substitute for a good construction. There is currently no metric to justify how strong a car is, except anecdotal evidence from owners who have faced accidents in cars without airbags and emerged safe.

[Lazy Driver]

In a market where people drive on the wrong side on an expressway, it is not cool to blame the manufacturers for not providing the safety systems.

They are here to do business and make money. However rude/shallow it may sound but the fact remains that most Indians (despite the ones who are reading these kind of threads) give two hoots about safety systems. The picture of a god on the dash and lemon-chilli on the bonnet will keep them safe is what they believe. Asking such people to shell extra money for an airbag is quite a task isn't it?

The age old thing here- government's intervention should do the trick. Make airbags compulsory, furore for a few months and then things will be back to normal.

But what use an airbag will be when someone will drive his or her Bolero at 100 KMPH on the wrong side of a butter smooth expressway, is something only the god on the dashboard can tell.

[jetti]

Originally Posted by Lazy Driver

In a market where people drive on the wrong side on an expressway, it is not cool to blame the manufacturers for not providing the safety systems.

They are here to do business and make money. However rude/shallow it may sound but the fact remains that most Indians (despite the ones who are reading these kind of threads) give two hoots about safety systems. The picture of a god on the dash and lemon-chilli on the bonnet will keep them safe is what they believe. Asking such people to shell extra money for an airbag is quite a task isn't it?

This is true, and it is because of such people that safety features are even more necessary. To protect the poor victims of these idiots who were driving along carefully and were hit for no fault of theirs.

The age old thing here- government's intervention should do the trick. Make airbags compulsory, furore for a few months and then things will be back to normal.

Agree.

But what use an airbag will be when someone will drive his or her Bolero at 100 KMPH on the wrong side of a butter smooth expressway, is something only the god on the dashboard can tell.

It may not protect him but it can protect at least some of the victims of such stupidity.

Originally Posted by puneeth2

That's again back to the governing authority. First safety feature in a car is the driver himself. Yes, it's time majority of Indians are taught how to drive. I see people driving with headlight in highbeam for crying out loud. Don't even get me started on lane discipline, overtaking, taking a turn etc. There should be a stringent requirement to get a drivers' license. We already have enough morons on road.

Yes, it should crumple to a certain level to absorb the impact. Not so much that it deforms the cabin. That in no way a good sign.

Correct. And we'd still need airbags and other safety features. Accidents and fatalities still happen even in those countries with strict driving tests and rules enforcement. Humans (and even self-driving technologies like Tesla's) are not perfect.

[ramharis]

Everybody talks about safety ratings and crumple zones, why hasn't anybody talked about the speed at which the cars are tested. I believe all crash tests are done around 60 to 80 kmph (please do correct me if Iam wrong).

Can anybody here honestly tell me that they stay within the speed limit of all roads ?
Yes there are no signs on highways, but even considering that fact, how many of us obey those rules. We are car enthusiasts, we are all passionate drivers, but do we really follow all the rules. I have driven a Fortuner from Myles cars with a speed limit of 100kmph, I know how frustrating it was, especially on that car.

Even if a car passes the crash test, does not mean its safe at higher speeds. Lets say a car passes the crash test at 60kmph, even NCAP guys will not guarantee the car will be safer at 120kmph. We know a car is safe at 60kmph, with the knowledge, do we stay within that speed ?

I know that people would say the police officers will have to do their job correctly, NHAI needs to mark the speed limits for highways etc., India's population so huge and this police force is negligible when you compare the crores of offenses that happen every minute. What I say is they are not the only ones to be blamed.

Somebody quoted Henry Ford, why a foreigner. Let me quote,
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

If you need to blame, blame yourself first.

[shankar.balan]

India is all about compromise and price.

Strangely, even these "US Returned" types, come back to their home country India and then go and buy cheap cars with none of the safety kit that they have actually been used to in the US itself.

It is like having one set of standards when one is outside India and a completely different, compromised set of standards when back here.

Just the same as our "Domestic Quality" vs "Export Quality"!

This country has skewed and strange priorities and evolved consumers will simply have to stump up the big bucks if they want peace of mind in terms of safety and security and technology etc.

[tushky]

Originally Posted by ramharis

Everybody talks about safety ratings and crumple zones, why hasn't anybody talked about the speed at which the cars are tested. I believe all crash tests are done around 60 to 80 kmph (please do correct me if Iam wrong).

Can anybody here honestly tell me that they stay within the speed limit of all roads ?
Yes there are no signs on highways, but even considering that fact, how many of us obey those rules. We are car enthusiasts, we are all passionate drivers, but do we really follow all the rules. I have driven a Fortuner from Myles cars with a speed limit of 100kmph, I know how frustrating it was, especially on that car.

Even if a car passes the crash test, does not mean its safe at higher speeds. Lets say a car passes the crash test at 60kmph, even NCAP guys will not guarantee the car will be safer at 120kmph. We know a car is safe at 60kmph, with the knowledge, do we stay within that speed ?

I know that people would say the police officers will have to do their job correctly, NHAI needs to mark the speed limits for highways etc., India's population so huge and this police force is negligible when you compare the crores of offenses that happen every minute. What I say is they are not the only ones to be blamed.

Somebody quoted Henry Ford, why a foreigner. Let me quote,
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

If you need to blame, blame yourself first.

I had asked the same speed related question to one trainer of Volkswagen india. And he said even if you are driving the car at the speed of 80/100kmph , in case of accident you apply the breaks and during the collision the speed reduces to 60/70kmph. Hence automakers crash test the cars at these speeds.

[octane_100]

I am not surprised. They will always get away saying "our product conforms to local standards". It is the public who should be more aware and who should shed the "chalta hain" attitude. I know a very affluent friend (and who is well educated) of mine who doesn't believe in paying more for ABS and airbags, so it is an attitude issue and not just that of affordability.

This (kwid example) is precisely why I recommend friends who are on a tight budget to instead go for used, better specced cars.

[ramharis]

Originally Posted by tushky

I had asked the same speed related question to one trainer of Volkswagen india. And he said even if you are driving the car at the speed of 80/100kmph , in case of accident you apply the breaks and during the collision the speed reduces to 60/70kmph. Hence automakers crash test the cars at these speeds.

He is right, you do apply brake few seconds before crash which reduces the speed. Please ask the same trainer if the car would hit 70kmph or lesser give the same scenario but you are doing upwards of 120kmph ?
Not to mention the brake efficiency changes when the brakes are not at optimal temperature.

Oh and he is only mentioning about the the circumstances wherein the the car is about to collide with a stationary object. Situations are way different when the car has under run problems like going under bus or lorry. Have they crash tested their cars for that ?

Another point of view, when there is a head-on-collision, do you know that the speed of impact increases tremendously, basic calculation is car A's speed + car B's speed during the time of impact. So if car A is at 60 and car B is at 70 then the speed of impact is 60+70, which is 130kmph. That is also a possibility, has anyone crash tested that (please correct me if my calculation is wrong)

All the crash test data means that you are safe in the car when you are travelling at or below the speeds they have tested. Beyond that nobody can guarantee anything.

[da_lowrider]

Originally Posted by ramharis

Another point of view, when there is a head-on-collision, do you know that the speed of impact increases tremendously, basic calculation is car A's speed + car B's speed during the time of impact. So if car A is at 60 and car B is at 70 then the speed of impact is 60+70, which is 130kmph. That is also a possibility, has anyone crash tested that (please correct me if my calculation is wrong)
.

Lemme try having a crack at that one. This seems to be more of an infrastructure thing, if a road is giving the confidence to a driver to do these ridiculous speeds i.e. in terms of the width, straight portions etc., ideally it should have separate carriageways with adequate central dividers to prevent what you have described. More and more we are seeing this happening with modernization of highways and with the construction of newer expressways in the country. Yes there are still large portions of national highways that still need to incorporate this, but again, that, is an infrastructure thing that needs to be resolved ASAP.

[RavenAvi]

Spot the differences?

(Source)

1) Delectable Orange shade (same as the Duster?)
2) Extremely nice-looking brushed matte-finished multi-spoke alloys
3) Rear windshield wash and wipe
4) No gaudy, oversized checkered stickers on the lower part of the doors
5) Sitting a wee bit lower than it's Indian counterpart. Heavier?

Anything else you can spot which makes you feel short-changed as an Indian Kwid owner?


Autos Segredos