[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Correcting you since you are wrong. This is a myth, airbags do deploy when seatbelts are not worn, in fact they even deploy if no one is sitting in the seat. ....

Not only will the airbag deploy, if there's an unrestrained passenger in the said seat, he or she risks being seriously injured by an airbag that basically explodes in their face. This is why an airbag is called SRS airbag - supplemental restraint system airbag - it supplements the seat belts in restraining and protecting the passenger.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by sourav9385

... ... ...And then, disaster strikes! But the airbags won't deploy, obviously? Because, let's face it, they hadn't put on the freaking seat belt! So what's the point in making air bags mandatory?

In fact, the worst case is that airbags can cause serious injury without seat belts

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

To be honest, apart from issuing penalties for the violations & advertising at signals and highways, the govt. cannot spoon-feed people into fastening the seat belts.

It can be done. I know, because I come from a country where it has been done, and attitudes to seat belts (and alcohol+driving) have [been] changed entirely during my lifetime.

Originally Posted by Sahil

Correcting you since you are wrong. This is a myth, airbags do deploy when seatbelts are not worn, in fact they even deploy if no one is sitting in the seat. For example, if you are driving alone and someone smashes into your passenger side door without any occupant, the airbag for the passenger door will deploy.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Not only will the airbag deploy, if there's an unrestrained passenger in the said seat, he or she risks being seriously injured by an airbag ... ... ...

I was collecting the quotes to answer. You are there ahead of me!

Let me just add (repeat) think of the effect of an exploding air bag on a child sitting on a front-seat passenger's lap.

Perhaps we should be asking if India is ready for airbags?

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by VKumar

October 2016 sales figures say that a total of 2,76,990 cars were sold in Indian market as per T-BHP Octbober 2016 car sales figures which can be found here.

...
Hence proved, many can afford the safer cars but they don't have safety at the top of their priority list.

It is fallacious indeed to conclude so much from one month's sales data. I suggest that you do a comparison of the number of cars on the road as well as their age to determine ownership patterns. Remember, not everyone is buying a new car.

This is indeed where the govt needs to work - on the drivers.

My sentiments exactly. Rest was explained very nicely by Eric in his post after yours.

With due respect; and even more, Yamuna expressway already has a speed limit of 100 kph and Govt. is planning to further revise it. So your first statement holds no water on this one. How many times you, yourself drive under 100 kph on an empty 4 lane highway? Let's not be ideologists and discuss what we and other road users in our country actually do on the roads. That is exactly where my argument makes a case for itself.

With equal regards, the number of skid marks ending at the median I saw when I travelled by that road in the winter of 2015 was unnerving. As far as I am concerned, a couple of highway trips has convinced me enough to not exceed 80 kmph under any circumstance. As for those who do exceed speed limits, harsh punishment is the only solution, not safer cars. FYI, speed limits within Delhi are being capped at 50 kmph rather than the 70 kmph we had earlier.

I guess you have been unable to make the difference between what I wrote and what you interpreted, maybe my poor communication skills are responsible for this. So let me put it down in a single line for you, with a word of apology for not putting it down in right way previously:
"An alert driver with trained reflexes is the key to safety, a novice driving a car with ABS has a lesser probability of avoiding an accident as compared to an alert and trained driver. This is where airbags make a stronger case for themselves as compared to ABS, because no matter the person behind the wheel is an under age, over age, novice or expert; if the airbags are functional then they will perform their task".

Hope it is a 5'9'' tall male with medium body weight. Women be damned. Why? Just read this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/07/ga...void-them.html

Then suggest the approach with a thorough analysis. I promise to make sure that you get an appointment with Mr. Gadkari.

Thanks a lot for your most gracious offer, but most of what I have to say I myself have learnt from a police officer who is now retired. All of his recommendations are with the government. Any minister or official is free to act on them.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by fighterace

Hope it is a 5'9'' tall male with medium body weight. Women be damned. Why? Just read this article.

That's a lot of restraint in your reply, several months worth

Sorry, no offence meant - just a poor joke.

While I agree with most of your views, I think your conclusions are a bit extreme.

I agree that air bags can kill as the article you've quoted mentions, but again that is only if seat belts aren't worn as also mentioned in the same article. It also clearly states that airbags have saved a vastly higher number of lives than they've taken. So airbags then are like friction - a necessary evil.

That brings me to two other and far more important of your points, ones that I agree with whole-heartedly. Structural strength is a prerequisite, and driver education is of paramount and urgent importance. India is a country where driving is a skill passed down from father to (mostly) son, or worse still friends to a peer. Illiterate drivers are the bane of our roads, and no amount of legislation can replace basic driver education.

Airbags are good, but an idea like the UP CM'S (no political support, just a good idea) to make driver education a part of the school curriculum is really desperately needed.

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by VeluM

That's a lot of restraint in your reply, several months worth

Sorry, no offence meant - just a poor joke.

While I agree with most of your views, I think your conclusions are a bit extreme.

I agree that air bags can kill as the article you've quoted mentions, but again that is only if seat belts aren't worn as also mentioned in the same article. It also clearly states that airbags have saved a vastly higher number of lives than they've taken. So airbags then are like friction - a necessary evil.

That brings me to two other and far more important of your points, ones that I agree with whole-heartedly. Structural strength is a prerequisite, and driver education is of paramount and urgent importance. India is a country where driving is a skill passed down from father to (mostly) son, or worse still friends to a peer. Illiterate drivers are the bane of our roads, and no amount of legislation can replace basic driver education.

Airbags are good, but an idea like the UP CM'S (no political support, just a good idea) to make driver education a part of the school curriculum is really desperately needed.

No offense taken, from your little joke. I'd like to state my take on this issue in brief-

Stringent licensing is the most important aspect of road safety. As of now, it is a joke in this country. As for father to son transmission of driving skills and etiquette, I am really lucky to have been tutored by my father, although others may not have been as lucky.

Given the general lack of resources in this country my order of precedence for safety measures would be:

1. Rigid passenger cell
2. ABS
3. pre-tensioner seatbelts
4. airbags

The government should make 1 and 2 and perhaps 3 mandatory in all cars. 3 & 4 should be made an optional extra in all models and variants. Let the customer decide for himself.

[4x4addict]

Wow, I am surprised that with the knowledge available, people still think that they can pump the brakes faster and more efficiently than an ABS system.

Hats of to you quick guns man. I have been driving for many, many years, but would still prefer to have ABS to help me out in an emergency braking situation in wet conditions.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Wow, I am surprised that with the knowledge available, people still think that they can pump the brakes faster and more efficiently than an ABS system.

They are convinced of it. We have a considerable number of members who are certain that EGO can stop a car faster and under better control than ABS.

There are situations in which ABS does not work very well, and they are not obscure hard-to-find cases either, eg driving on gravel. But mostly, it works.

I'll make another unpopular statement: only a bad driver will frequently experience ABS functioning on their car. Many people claim that they regularly do. I have only done it by setting up a situation in which I knew I would skid at very low speed (on ice, with room for things to go wrong, single-digit speed) and not more than one or two times in "real life." Anyone who feels it in the right foot regularly must be doing very heavy-footed emergency braking in non-emergency situations.

All that aside, I think it is wrong to have one safety device competing against another. They stand on their own merits, and perform their own functions. It is true that ABS might prevent an accident, but there will still be accidents even when every car on our roads has it.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Wow, I am surprised that with the knowledge available, people still think that they can pump the brakes faster and more efficiently than an ABS system.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

We have a considerable number of members who are certain that EGO can stop a car faster and under better control than ABS.

Hilarious!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'll make another unpopular statement: only a bad driver will frequently experience ABS functioning on their car.

I am a relatively careful driver, and maybe that is why have only on one occasion experienced ABS in operation.

I know of a person who considers ESP to be a "feature" to be used when driving far too fast around corners. Yes, they live and drive amongst us.

Making airbags mandatory is welcome, but it must be agreed that it isn't the end of it. Seat belt enforcement, driver education, and licensing reforms are equally important IMHO.

[nagateja]

On a relatively related side note, should the size of the airbags not be moderated/enforced in the wake of Duster's example for it having smaller sized airbags?

[im_srini]

Came across this tired, old, Top-Gear clip from 1991 on Air-Bags.
So, I'm guessing we're about 25 years behind the European market in terms of safety tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdsCqizfSqU

Originally Posted by nagateja

On a relatively related side note, should the size of the airbags not be moderated/enforced in the wake of Duster's example for it having smaller sized airbags ?

At 2 mins & 35 secs into the above video, there's an interesting bit on the size of air-bags.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by VeluM

I agree that air bags can kill as the article you've quoted mentions, but again that is only if seat belts aren't worn as also mentioned in the same article. It also clearly states that airbags have saved a vastly higher number of lives than they've taken. So airbags then are like friction - a necessary evil.

That brings me to two other and far more important of your points, ones that I agree with whole-heartedly. Structural strength is a prerequisite, and driver education is of paramount and urgent importance. India is a country where driving is a skill passed down from father to (mostly) son, or worse still friends to a peer. Illiterate drivers are the bane of our roads, and no amount of legislation can replace basic driver education.

Airbags are good, but an idea like the UP CM'S (no political support, just a good idea) to make driver education a part of the school curriculum is really desperately needed.

Even above driver education come fundamental civics lessons and learning; we Indians simply don't learn in schools AND by example the basic respect due to the rights of our fellow citizens. It is all me and myself, and then my family and my home. The rest be damned.

Once this learning is in place, driver education is just a technical layer. Without it, the technical layer does not have a base to survive.

Unless we start paying enough attention to foundation building, NOTHING will significantly improve in the country, except at a rate as slow as evolution.

On the airbags mandate, my one problem with it is that airbags can kill if seatbelts are not used. And using seatbelts needs a conscious user act every time, while the airbags will deploy automatically. So we need a way where unless the seat belts are used for seats where airbags are in place, the car won't start.

[sgiitk]

Good idea. Some will cry since there may be a 5k or so impact on the new car prices at the entry level.

[condor]

Considering that airbags are now mandatory, and our streets so choked, the chances of an air bag deployment due to simpler incidents is high. Like may be even a mild rear-ending that impacted precisely at the air-bag sensor position. One such incident and the owner is set back by a good amount.

In this situation, insurance companies could offer separate packages to cover for airbags.

Any thoughts ? or are such packages already available ?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by condor

Like may be even a mild rear-ending that impacted precisely at the air-bag sensor position. One such incident and the owner is set back by a good amount.

Generally air bag impact sensors are placed well inside the crumple zone and not at the outer edge of the bumper. Hence, generally the impact has to be big enough to reach the impact sensor.

Originally Posted by condor

In this situation, insurance companies could offer separate packages to cover for airbags.

It is silly of Insurance companies not to cover air bags. However, with the Insurance getting more and more competitive, hopefully this will force them to give cover for airbags as well. Hope the govt also makes it mandatory for the Insurance Companies to cover air bags. Maybe we need a campaign on change.org at that time.

I also think that for many lower end cars, if Insurance doesn't cover air bags, the owner maybe forced to just repair/re-assemble the car without the replacement air bag installed if he is unable to get a claim for the air-bag.

[Tanmay K]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

On the airbags mandate, my one problem with it is that airbags can kill if seatbelts are not used. And using seatbelts needs a conscious user act every time, while the airbags will deploy automatically. So we need a way where unless the seat belts are used for seats where airbags are in place, the car won't start.

AFAIK cars don't deploy airbags unless the passenger is wearing the seat belt. What is mighty dangerous, however, is the fact that some people use seat belt buckles to mute the seat belt alarm in some modern cars. Things like these:



These make the cars think the passenger is wearing a seatbelt, when in fact they're not. People have no idea that using things like these can possibly be worse than not wearing a seat belt.