[AutoSphere]

Originally Posted by blackasta

A top down solution to a problem that should have been solved bottom up.
The first and the most important thing that needs to be standardized and enforced rigidly in India today is driver's education, proper training and proper licensing.
In most of the cases of people not following driving laws, they simply don't know them because no one taught it to them in the first place, and neither were they tested to check if they know the laws.
More than half of the problem would be solved with educated drivers. If required - launch recertification for ALL drivers a la 500/1000 rupee note exchange.

Spot-on.
And this is where like-minded auto-manufacturers can come together (??) and sponsor some traffic rules/safety related educational series on the TV. Because, I believe the RTO authorities/police are neither capable nor interested in addressing this important lacuna.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by naikameya

Why not introduce tax exemptions (not complete) on cars with more safety features?

Not tax exemptions, lowering insurance premiums will be good to promote the use of safety features.

Originally Posted by blackasta

A top down solution to a problem that should have been solved bottom up.

Agree, but slightly disagree too. Introduction of airbags will reduce fatalities but not accident rates. It'll solve 1/4th the problem.

Driver education is the next major step. It's important that all new drivers get a proper education and examination before they are issued a license. This should apply to renewals too.

I'm sure many pockets of people will oppose this move as many drivers who drive commercial vehicles are illiterate.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Anand3553

, I am not sure if it is practical but I always thought that the seat belts in Indian cars should be redesigned in such a way that one cannot keep it buckled close to the seat and sit on top of it. And then set up a continuous alarm which cannot be turned off if seat belt is not buckled.

There is a rich person in my neighbourhood who has several seriously high end cars (Beemers and Mercs and Fortuners and suchlike). When the lady of the house drives any of those cars and blunders around the neighbourhood, she usually has her paws fixed solidly on the horn so there is a blast of sound always preceding her. Most disconcerting.

I ve always observed her to be sitting on the car's seat belt which is permanently buckled up but not across her. She apparently believes in the "freewheeling' belt-less" lifestyle! Just hope she doesn't bump into someone or something and find out the consequences of not wearing the seat belt, the hard way!

[vivee90]

That is very positive to have such mandatory rules. All these safety features are good solutions but don't address the root cause. Traffic discipline and Road rules framework are the building blocks going ahead with our ever increasing traffic and congestion. Hope we get that right soon too.

I didn't see any rules regarding Child safety in car. Because I think that aspect is one of the most sensitive choice. Mandatory Isofix or booster seat for children because airbag deployment could be fatal to children seated and secured with seat belt. Of course, carrying an infant on one's lap is beyond any safety system.So, there should also be rules governing this.

[rlvl]

Good move by the Government! It's about time we made these as mandatory on new vehicles.
I was initially concerned about the 100kph warning system.. but it's probably for the best... Although your car may ease past 100kph and even have the capability to survive a 140kph crash, others on the road may not be able to do so. Hopefully the government will figure out a foolproof way to enforce it

[motorhead16]

I wish the government would show crash test videos as a PSA on TV channels. Many people seem to be completely unaware of the effects of a small overlap even at low speeds.

[John Jacob13128]

Originally Posted by AutoSphere

Spot-on.
And this is where like-minded auto-manufacturers can come together (??) and sponsor some traffic rules/safety related educational series on the TV. Because, I believe the RTO authorities/police are neither capable nor interested in addressing this important lacuna.

Totally agree ! Driving on roads today is a increasing experience. Majority don't even know the basic rules , let alone road courtesy. It becomes very difficult to maintain your cool when you come across such "people".

The best solution is to strengthen the rules and make licensing process very strict. Like USA or Dubai. You need to pass the very strict test to be eligible to get behind the wheels.
In India its the reverse. In my own experience, I just sat in the car engaged 2 gears and was asked to park. Because i "Passed" ! And as for my 2 wheeler license it was a joke.

[fighterace]

We'll soon see more deaths when unbelted passengers meet the bursting air-bag of a structurally unsafe car. Lets face the fact: we aren't as resource rich as the Europeans and have to spend wisely. Better structural rigidity is any day a prerequisite to air-bags. And ABS is a better investment than air-bags any day when cost is a restraint. Also, in a country where saving the plastic bumper cover takes precedence over crash safety, what utter rubbish is the government coming up with? Get rid of the metal bull guards and you will reduce pedestrian casualties even without a reverse camera.

[Midas]

Originally Posted by fighterace

We'll soon see more deaths when unbelted passengers meet the bursting air-bag of a structurally unsafe car.

Doesn't airbag in most cars deploy only when the seatbelt is fastened?

More people will start saying that airbag will result in injury and it's a disadvantage. I have come across many people who don't wear seatbelt and give this lame excuse "What if I get into an accident and get stuck in the car if I fail to unbuckle seatbelt"

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by fighterace

Better structural rigidity is any day a prerequisite to air-bags. And ABS is a better investment than air-bags any day when cost is a restraint

With due respect, I would lke to put my view on the 'underlined' part. IMO a better structure + airbags combo is what we need more. Now someone may come up and jump on me saying "ABS avoids the accident". Well, God bless you brother and I wish you never have to face a truck changing lane suddenly or crossing the highway while doing 120 kph on an ABS but no airbags equipped car.

What we do while testing a car for review or TD is called 'controlled environment braking' where we drive to 100 kph and apply brakes as hard as possible in a straight line. Sorry, that doesn't apply in real world when you are already doing 27.77 meters per second and a truck appears from the gap in median 40 meters away from you. You spend one second (Your reaction time + hydraulic force transfer time) in braking and the distance is already 12.23 meters when you actually start braking from 100 kph. This time if you can't steer clear (I tell you, you won't until you have practised it a lot) and there are no airbags in your car which is structurally strong;the situation will be grim.

So my take is simple, an alert driver with trained reflexes is what we need in an airbags equipped car and the road deaths toll is bound to come down. I am not against ABS but I am against the fact that having ABS is enough, if the driver can't steer clear then ABS is not going to serve any purpose (I am open for a calm debate over this with any expert). So the government better spread awareness and implement these rules, else the result will be more or less zilch.

Originally Posted by Midas

Doesn't airbag in most cars deploy only when the seatbelt is fastened?

That is only in the case of SRS airbags. And there are several cases where they have failed to deploy despite of the seat belts being fastened

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by VKumar

So my take is simple, an alert driver with trained reflexes is what we need in an airbags equipped car and the road deaths toll is bound to come down. I am not against ABS but I am against the fact that having ABS is enough, if the driver can't steer clear then ABS is not going to serve any purpose.

Unfortunately not everyone can afford a structurally well built European car.

The reason many advocate for ABS over Airbags is, the presence of ballons on a structurally weak car(IMHO anything less than 3-star in GNCAP/Euro NCAP) is of little significance. Either ways the passengers are bound to get crushed. Whereas, the presence of ABS atleast gives the driver a slim chance to avoid the accident, even if he is unskilled to steer away. Fragile cars like Alto, Eon, Kwid should mandatorily be equipped with ABS and an unhackable overspeed alarm/indicator.

ABS may not serve its purpose in some cases, if the driver cannot safely swerve during emergency.

Off-topic: How does one learn the art of safe high-speed swerving/steering during emergencies by reflex?

[Turbohead]

With respect to the airbags vs ABS discussion, I think some of you have pointed out the right answer!

My brother had a crash in his Grand i10 (with airbags,no ABS) today afternoon. What basically happened was that an Alto came in his track on a two lane highway for no reason. It was driven by a lady along with his son. They seem to have been distracted by something which we don't know about. It was a relatively straight road and my brother presumed that they will get back on their track since they weren't overtaking any vehicle. They didn't until it was too late. My bro braked late too. It all happened in 2-3 seconds.

My brother and his colleague were belted up while the driver and the passenger of the Alto weren't. They had to be rushed to the hospital just for a checkup. My bro and his colleague had no bruises save for some burns around the shoulder and chest because of the seatbelt-way more desirable than a broken nose!
The airbags didn't deploy since the impact was around 30kmph. What did matter was that everyone was safe. The lady seems to have internal bleeding at the knee( or so they claim)

However, this incident could have been avoided had the other party been more careful behind the wheel. We've learned our lesson too- if something seems fishy, it's because it is fishy! And that's the problem with India- nobody gives a hoot about safety until it matters!

So is ABS or airbags more important? I think both are equally important but common sense and general safety is way more important. We definitely need to improve our testing procedures. I feel it's high time we start an online petition on this to reduce and nullify avoidable casualties.( OK, I maybe overreacting)

Drive safe guys!!!

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by Midas

Doesn't airbag in most cars deploy only when the seatbelt is fastened?

More people will start saying that airbag will result in injury and it's a disadvantage. I have come across many people who don't wear seatbelt and give this lame excuse "What if I get into an accident and get stuck in the car if I fail to unbuckle seatbelt"

Well, depends whether the seatbelt buckle has a sensor or not. The point is that without improving basics like unauthorised modifications to cars (like bull bars which effectively deactivates multiple safety features), improving driver behaviour (lane and headlamp discipline etc.) and improving structural rigidity (which is MUCH more difficult to achieve for a any chassis than putting a controlled bomb in front of your face, perhaps made by Takata) these measures are useless. Air-bags are also known to have killed people in perfectly survivable crashes due to poor design.

Originally Posted by VKumar

With due respect, I would lke to put my view on the 'underlined' part. IMO a better structure + airbags combo is what we need more. Now someone may come up and jump on me saying "ABS avoids the accident". Well, God bless you brother and I wish you never have to face a truck changing lane suddenly or crossing the highway while doing 120 kph on an ABS but no airbags equipped car.

What we do while testing a car for review or TD is called 'controlled environment braking' where we drive to 100 kph and apply brakes as hard as possible in a straight line. Sorry, that doesn't apply in real world when you are already doing 27.77 meters per second and a truck appears from the gap in median 40 meters away from you. You spend one second (Your reaction time + hydraulic force transfer time) in braking and the distance is already 12.23 meters when you actually start braking from 100 kph. This time if you can't steer clear (I tell you, you won't until you have practised it a lot) and there are no airbags in your car which is structurally strong;the situation will be grim.

So my take is simple, an alert driver with trained reflexes is what we need in an airbags equipped car and the road deaths toll is bound to come down. I am not against ABS but I am against the fact that having ABS is enough, if the driver can't steer clear then ABS is not going to serve any purpose (I am open for a calm debate over this with any expert). So the government better spread awareness and implement these rules, else the result will be more or less zilch.


That is only in the case of SRS airbags. And there are several cases where they have failed to deploy despite of the seat belts being fastened

Given that the maximum permissible speed limit on Indian highways is 80 kmph, I would like to know where you did your braking tests. Also, going by your logic, the best thing to do is to limit the speeds of all vehicles sold in the country to 60 kmph. Dangerous driving is the biggest cause of accidents in this country. And also keep in mind that most fatalities on the roads happen OUTSIDE cars, not in them. How does air-bags deal with that?

As for meeting a truck while driving at 120 kmph, even a Mercedes S-Class can't save me or you or anyone else, forget about an air-bag equipped Alto. There is an entire thread in this site devoted to such an accident. The best defence in such situations is either to drive a truck or to drive slower. Take your pick.

In the end, I would like to say that even a flimsy car is safer than a two wheeler, and any changes that make cars prohibitively expensive will result in more fatalities, not less. It's one thing to spread awareness and set standards, but mandating certain components by law is stupid. Theoretically, it is possible to have five star safety ratings in cars without air-bags or pre-tensioners: rally cars have neither. We need to take a India specific approach rather than do the bidding of foreign component suppliers.

[guptad42]

Considering the overall effect on people's health, maybe we should also make HEPA mandatory in car ACs.

I doubt if anyone has done a detailed study on the people inside cars, but the exposure to elevated levels to pollutants like very fine particulate matter is a very large, silent killer.

So far, even the cars that have cabin air filters don't have HEPA H11 or H13 Certified filters. So they only filter out largest dust and fibres. The air still choke full of particulates at very small size that do the most damage to our lungs and heart.

[PCS]

What will happen to maruti omni?