[Samurai]

Originally Posted by binand

Cities don't count when it says "National Highways in the state"? Then maybe. Perhaps all that money was spent only on the 5% or so of NH that are outside of any corporation/municipality etc. of KA.

It is not may be, or even 5%. Why all this conjecture? This is the main contention of this thread, reality vs conjecture.

I already gave you the fact that city corporations and metros maintain the roads within their jurisdiction. Confirmed by a PWD engineer. Cities are heavy users of such roads and they collect enough taxes. Village panchayats don't maintain the SH/NH roads because they are no heavy users.

Now let's look at your 5% comment. You guessed that 95% of the NH in KA falls within city limits.

But what is the fact?

A total stretch of 6,572 km national highway runs through the state of which 858 km national highway passes through the cities and towns.
source

Which translates to just 13% of NH falling with city limits. NHAI maintains 87% of NH. So the KA government wants to denotify the 13% that is not maintained/funded by NHAI.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Now let's look at your 5% comment. You guessed that 95% of the NH in KA falls within city limits.

I actually guessed that 95% of NH falls within some local body's limits (not just cities). If what you say - that only village panchayats don't pay for their maintenance - then it is possible that what you say is correct.

[Samurai]

Now the KA liquor lobby wants even parts passing through panchayat areas to be denotified.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/59303960.cms

This is counter-intuitive for couple reasons.

The very logic of KA government's denotification action is as follows:
1) NHAI doesn't pay for maintenance of NH within city limits. So center shouldn't care if it is denotified.
2) Most customers at these city bars are locals, they don't contribute much to DUI on NH.

The latest demand by the liquor lobby fails on both counts. NH passing through panchayat areas are maintained by NHAI. And these bars cater primarily to highway travelers, they even admit it.

Bar and restaurant owners argue that unlike shops on highways passing through a city or town, those operating in rural stretches depend excessively on customers from the highway.

I doubt KA government will even consider this latest request, because it totally contradicts their current position.

[Samurai]

As it turns out most of the famous bars, restaurants and star hotels of Bangalore fall within 500m of national highway. Who knew...!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/59332097.cms

That means Windsor Manor, Ashoka, Taj (residency & vivanta), and numerous other star hotels have to shutdown their bars. Most of their business depends on MICE (Meetings, Incentives, Conferences, and Events ) and foreigner tourists, who will mostly avoid these establishments in future. Expect most of these hotels to shutdown now. If 19 star hotels are at risk, what will be left?

The iconic Koshy's restaurant on St.Mark's road, famous for its breakfast will shutdown, because even the breakfast place can't survive without the liquor revenue. They have been around for 72 years, run by the 3rd generation of the founders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zqaV3ZvvYA

Now most of the these bars will try to sneak into residential areas. The state government is being very co-operative, even slashed the re-location fee by 50%. Also, expect house parties to explode all around the city, bringing the crowd and noise to homes.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Samurai

The iconic Koshy's restaurant on St.Mark's road, famous for its breakfast will shutdown, because even the breakfast place can't survive without the liquor revenue. They have been around for 72 years, run by the 3rd generation of the founders.

I always felt that Koshy's run afoul of the proximity to place of worship (St. Mark's Church), educational institution (Stracey Memorial) or government office (Sub-Registrar's office) rule and is running illegally anyway. Or is there some special exclusion, given the number of booze places in that area and in general in Bangalore seemingly violating this rule?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by binand

I always felt that Koshy's run afoul of the proximity to place of worship (St. Mark's Church), educational institution (Stracey Memorial) or government office (Sub-Registrar's office) rule and is running illegally anyway. Or is there some special exclusion, given the number of booze places in that area and in general in Bangalore seemingly violating this rule?

Isn't that just an 100 meter rule? Also, I don't think it applies if the place of worship/education came later. Near my home, a new college came bang opposite a liquor shop. Both exist now.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Isn't that just an 100 meter rule? Also, I don't think it applies if the place of worship/education came later. Near my home, a new college came bang opposite a liquor shop. Both exist now.

Yes, the 100m rule. But why fall into the trap of conjecture? Here's a judgment by Karnataka high court:

https://www.legalcrystal.com/case/37...ation-vs-state

"In cases where there are liquor shops located already and religious institutions, educational institutions and offices have come up later or whether the Rule cannot be worked out for any City crowded with such institutions, are all matters to be considered by the concerned authority in individual cases and due action taken, but these circumstances cannot invalidate the Rule in any manner."

(the Rule is the 100m rule).

In any case as per Wikipedia St. Mark's Church has been there since 1812.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by binand

Yes, the 100m rule. But why fall into the trap of conjecture?
.
.
In any case as per Wikipedia St. Mark's Church has been there since 1812.

And it is more than 100m away from Koshy's. And Stracey Memorial is also more than 100m away. (according to google Map)

[binand]

Originally Posted by Samurai

And it is more than 100m away from Koshy's. And Stracey Memorial is also more than 100m away. (according to google Map)

You reckon so? Are you using the concept of "proximity" or that of "motorable distance"?

(The former can be measured in Google Maps by right-clicking and selecting "measure distance")

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by binand

You reckon so? Are you using the concept of "proximity" or that of "motorable distance"?

I don't recon so. I have actually seen excise official in Manipal measuring the distance from the highway using measuring links. It based on motorable distance and not as crow flies.

All this debate is moot now. Ideologues have won and hospitality industry will soon witness 1000s of cases of loan defaults and NPAs. It is a crazy co-incidence that liquor ban and 28% GST takes effect on the same day, at least in KA. Very few will survive this.

[Samurai]

The theme remains that same... liquor keeps most restaurants viable.

But when I started the outlet, it was not a bar but a restaurant serving Mexican food. In 1989, convincing the people of Bengaluru to eat Mexican food was a difficult job. I used to spend all my days and nights at the restaurant, trying to save it from crashing.”

The restaurant eventually turned into a pub, thanks to a customer, who suggested that Timms serve beer. Timms took the suggestion on board as a solution to a sinking ship.

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article...me-court-64445

[Nissan1180]

What is happening is sad. While it is true that a lot of drivers buy Alcohol from the roadside on highways, I don't think this rule will prevent anyone from doing so in any case- they'd just get it from home. Worse, there would be hole-in-the-wall operations that sell alcohol to regular drivers at a premium (have seen this happening near Kharagpur).
It would be interesting to see if there's any macro change in accident statistics in this year, after liquor is banned. If there isn't any change, I believe that in the future, there would be petitions against this in the court and the law would be reformed due to political compulsions to protect livelihoods. Lets hope that day is not too far ahead.
I don't drink but I know how bad the effect will be on small scale businesses like hotels. More than the owners, it is the workers who would be affected.
On another note (and this may be deleted from TeamBhp if considered inappropriate)- I have seen government officials having alcohol on highway bars in many states. They do not even pay their bill and just drive away in their beacon flashing cars.

[sdp1975]

Denotification of highways falling inside cities may be spared by the Supreme Court.

http://www.livelaw.in/highway-liquor...ghways-punjab/

[sgiitk]

I think we are missing the main point. We, as a nation, are unable to drink responsibly. So in the interest of safety alcohol at or around highways MUST be banned. Our enforcement mechanism is also bent!

[TorqueyTechie]

Supreme court today has said that the government can denotify roads inside cities as highways and allow bars to run. This move will benefit many state governments as it had caused lot of grievances to both the state exchequer as well as the owners, workers in the industry.

Source : TOI