[akhil994]

Originally Posted by ayankm

What I do not understand here is, how the presence of 2 airbags can push the rating from 0 to 4? The cars used for the tests are structurally same in every aspect except for the presence of dual airbags. And that pushes the rating to 4.



Looks like just having air bags is enough for a car to be called safe or am I missing something here?

Because this test is essential a passenger safety test where it tests how safe the occupants might be in the event of a collision. Without airbag and with a weak structure it is sure shot death of the occupants. Two front airbags keep people relatively safer , i.e prevent fatality to a certain extent whereas 6 airbags can hence prevent it further. That is how these tests are scored.

[arighna.dutta]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Any guesses as to what this actually means -

- Bodyshell Unstable
- Will not be able to withstand further load

3 stars is standard these days for cars equipped with dual airbags & ABS. How did Figo achieve 3 stars if bodyshell was unstable? Perhaps it means Figo/Aspire has been specifically designed to pass the NCAP test at 64 kmph, but not at higher speeds?

"Bodyshell Unstable"
Means the BiW/chassis part of the passenger shell did not remain intact for the specific test. might be the floor pan ruptured or the pillars failed or the firewall collapsed.

That means Figo/Aspire have failed the structural test even at 64 kmph.

[Swarit19]

Will VW take advantage of this to promote the diesel Ameo? That's what came to my mind first when I saw the results in my subscription box (yt). That is if their vehicle truly can outperform Aspire like Polo does in the test. Mildly disappointed but it also makes sense given it never felt as good as the older Figo.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by smartcat

- Bodyshell Unstable
- Will not be able to withstand further load

Using the exact words from the ASEAN NCAP Assessment Protocol manual, there are multiple scenarios in which a car passenger compartment can be declared as unstable -

1. "When the passenger compartment becomes unstable, any additional load can result in unpredictable excessive further collapse of the passenger compartment. When the passenger compartment becomes unstable the repeatability of the car’s response in the test becomes poor and confidence in the car’s performance is reduced"

2. "Rupture of the footwell exposes the occupant to additional dangers. Objects outside the passenger compartment may enter, parts of the occupant may contact items outside the passenger compartment, there is a risk from exposed edges and the structure may become unstable."

3. "If during the forward movement of the head its centre of gravity moves further than the outside edge of the airbag, head contact is deemed to be unstable."

4. "If for any other reason head contact on the steering wheel is unstable,
such as detachment of the steering wheel from the column, the modifier is also applied.

Originally Posted by ayankm

What I do not understand here is, how the presence of 2 airbags can push the rating from 0 to 4? The cars used for the tests are structurally same in every aspect except for the presence of dual airbags. And that pushes the rating to 4.

Looks like just having air bags is enough for a car to be called safe or am I missing something here?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-picture.html

I had created a thread sometime back for a similar question I had in mind. Star ratings don't reveal the correct picture most often. You need to analyze further on the test results.

In a car without airbags, most likely the head will come into a fatal collision with the steering wheel, resulting in a zero rating for most cases. Zero rating here is a capped rating - meaning that the head injury was so bad that the person would not have survived, even though all other body parts were not injured.

Which is why a simple addition of airbag sends the rating high, for some cars. Airbags alone won't help though, as they can't help protect anything if the body shell itself becomes a crushed ball under impact.

Originally Posted by arunphilip

If the base variant of a car does not come with airbags as standard, the star rating is immediately set to zero, irrespective of how it actually performs in a crash test.

Small correction. The car would MOST LIKELY score a zero if airbags are not standard. This is because of a fatal impact on the head in most cases. However, nothing is 'set to zero' and a car can get better ratings IF it manages to avoid a fatal injury to the head with just the seat belt pretensioners.

For example - Fiat Palio (2010 - Latin NCAP) and Ford Ka (2011 Latin NCAP) still received a single star rating without having any airbag

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

What is disappointing is the fact that the body shell integrity has been rated as unstable and not capable of withstanding further load, which is definitely a step backwards as compared to the earlier generation Figo.

So true! This is what happen when a manufacturer forego its virtue and create a model to cater the so called market demands. Ford went by the logic of ‘if you cannot beat the crowd, join them’. They got lost in the crowd is another matter; the last two mass-market models which stayed true to the Ford identity (the Ecosport and prev. gen Figo) was probably a bigger success than the current Figo twins.

[scarlet.fever]

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[McLaren Rulez]

With the Figo, you can see the A-pillar bending slightly in the middle. Presumably, this is what is meant by unable to withstand further loading as the pillar is close to collapsing at this speed.

Disappointing, particularly since the older Figo with two airbags is probably safer.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Disappointing, particularly since the older Figo with two airbags is probably safer.

Also considering the fact that the new Figo, is way faster than the earlier version - especially in the 1.5 diesel and 1.5 petrol DCT versions.

[bhpfaninblr]

Ford Aspire got only 3 stars in NCAP. This compares to the 4 stars that Suzuki Ciaz got, 4 stars that Suzuki Ertiga got and the 4 stars that Suzuki Baleno got. Not to forget the 5 stars that the Suzuki S-cross got
Note that Suzuki uses the same chassis and metal frame nowadays in India and abroad

Note: I purposefully excluded Swift from above analysis as the Suzuki Swift build quality/chassis/body in India and abroad is different

I think the Korean and Japanese manufacturers are mocked at for build quality but they make pretty safe cars

Ford needs to improve the quality of their cars in India - the 'thud' is not enough. Stable chassis, body structure and crumple zones are the key

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

Ford Aspire got only 3 stars in NCAP. This compares to the 4 stars that Suzuki Ciaz got, 4 stars that Suzuki Ertiga got and the 4 stars that Suzuki Baleno got. Not to forget the 5 stars that the Suzuki S-cross got

Crash test performance of cars sold in India cannot be compared with the ones sold abroad. This has been proven time and again. Aspire's cousin Ka+ sedan got 4 stars in Latin NCAP and had a stable structure.

Note that Suzuki uses the same chassis and metal frame nowadays in India and abroad

Source please.

I think the Korean and Japanese manufacturers are mocked at for build quality but they make pretty safe cars

Again, source please.
From what I have seen, cars like Swift, Grand i10 (tested by Latin NCAP and performed poorly, safe to assume that Indian version wouldn't be any better) etc. disagree.

Ford needs to improve the quality of their cars in India - the 'thud' is not enough. Stable chassis, body structure and crumple zones are the key

The old Figo which had a 'thud' had good structure as per the crash test. The new one doesn't have thud and doesn't have good structure too. But, yes, I agree, Ford needs to improve the structure of their cars going forward.

[bhpfaninblr]

Here are the sources:

Suzuki Ciaz got 4 stars in ASEAN NCAP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7joVWm9q1I

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/st.../1/682387.html
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...sean-ncap.html

Ciaz India got re-inforcements to ensure that the latest batches of Ciaz are crash compliant as well
http://www.financialexpress.com/indu...-tests/562972/

From the source:
“The state-of-the-art crash lab facilities and proving ground at Rohtak, together with the capability of its engineers, have enabled Maruti to meet advanced safety regulations in these five models, ahead of schedule,” the company said in a statement issued on Wednesday

More sources: The Baleno from India has the same sheet metal and chassis exported abroad. So Suzuki is giving us the same safety as abroad in many of its cars

Originally Posted by theredliner

Crash test performance of sold in India cars cannot be compared with the ones sold abroad. This has been proven time and again. Aspire's cousin Ka+ sedan got 4 stars in Latin NCAP and had a stable structure.



Source please.



Again, source please.
Swift, Grand i10 (tested by Latin NCAP, but Indian version wouldn't be any better) etc. disagree.


The old Figo which had a 'thud' had good structure as per the crash test. The new one doesn't have thud and doesn't have good structure too.

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

Here are the sources:

Suzuki Ciaz got 4 stars in ASEAN NCAP
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=H7joVWm9q1I
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/st.../1/682387.html
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...sean-ncap.html

Like I said, results of ASEAN NCAP do not necessarily apply to cars sold in India.

Ciaz India got re-inforcements to ensure that the latest batches of Ciaz are crash compliant as well
http://www.financialexpress.com/indu...-tests/562972/

From the source:
“The state-of-the-art crash lab facilities and proving ground at Rohtak, together with the capability of its engineers, have enabled Maruti to meet advanced safety regulations in these five models, ahead of schedule,” the company said in a statement issued on Wednesday

So, basically they're admitting that they were selling cars with poor structure till now (if they had to make so many modifications to meet the highly watered down Indian safety regulations). Also, we will not know how safe the newly reinforced cars perform until they undergo a crash test, that too GNCAP tests.

Once the crash test regulations kick in, it is highly likely that all manufacturers will start strengthening their models. Also, the crash tests in India are set for 56 km/h and are a lot more watered down than Global NCAP's 64 km/h test.

More sources: The Baleno from India has the same sheet metal and chassis exported abroad. So Suzuki is giving us the same safety as abroad in many of its cars

The fact that Indian Baleno supposedly passes India's crash test (does not really mention if it is BNVSAP) does not mean it will pass the much more stringent Euro NCAP. It also does not say that Baleno has same structure or metal at all. It is just assumption

[bhpfaninblr]

The 5 models of Suzuki cleared the NCAP tests in India already. So they are already in vogue
http://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/...ry/246835.html
The grapevine is that there were some re-inforcements and they are in the new models. It is not fair to assume that they would have got 0 stars without the re-inforcements

Maruti's state of the art facility in India for crash testing at a cost of ~1900 Cr. They are genuinely serious about safety in India
http://overdrive.in/opinions/is-a-ma...ki-safe-today/

Do not want this to get into a Suzuki vs. Ford thread. Just wanted to make the point that while Japanese/Korean manufacturers are maligned, they make good safe cars as well and have shown serious commitment to safety standards in cars in India.

Originally Posted by theredliner

Like I said, results of ASEAN NCAP do not necessarily apply to cars sold in India.



So, basically they're admitting that they were selling cars with poor structure till now. Also, we will not know how safe the newly reinforced cars perform until they undergo a crash test, that too GNCAP tests.

Once the crash test regulations kick in, it is highly likely that all manufacturers will start strengthening their models. Also, the crash tests in India are set for 56 km/h and are a lot more watered down than Global NCAP's 64 km/h test.



The fact that Indian Baleno supposedly passes India's crash test (does not really mention if it is BNVSAP) does not mean it will pass the much more stringent Euro NCAP. It also does not say that Baleno has same structure or metal at all. It is just assumption.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

Maruti's state of the art facility in India for crash testing at a cost of ~1900 Cr. They are genuinely serious about safety in India

Why weren't they serious when Swift and Alto failed spectaculary?

Simple. It's becoming a rule soon, and they can't sell their cars without the safety aspect meeting the requirements. It is just good business sense to make the models compliant to the norms now. They still sell the Omni, for all their seriousness.

That said, they claim that their cars have been upgraded to meet the required norms coming as part of the Bharat New Vehicle Assessment program, but have they ever mentioned the build is same as international ones? That is just our assumption. And going by their past, such an assumption can't be made without even an iota of doubt.

I would wait and watch till these models for the Indian market are tested.

[Arjun Reddy]

Guys, haven't really been following the thread. Pardon me if I haven't read through the entire thread.

Do we know if the Indian crash test standards are on par with the Global NCAP or the ASEAN NCAP regulations ?

For example if Maruti says they are clearing our regulations for crash testing , will the same car get similar results in the Global NCAP ?

So if it doesn't , we will still get the watered down versions ? 'Teek hai , pass ho Gaya', kind of attitude.