Team-BHP - How safety has evolved! ANCAP crash test of 1998 vs 2015 Toyota Corolla
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-   -   How safety has evolved! ANCAP crash test of 1998 vs 2015 Toyota Corolla (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-safety/186968-how-safety-has-evolved-ancap-crash-test-1998-vs-2015-toyota-corolla.html)

Airbags are now commonplace, while safety structures have greatly improved. As expected, the 2015 Corolla crushes the 1998 model which is completely destroyed!

You're a lot more likely to walk out of a crash in a modern car than an old one. A good reminder if you're still driving a model from the 90s, or thinking of getting one used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxDHuthGIS4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azrpgvbOMq4

This testing clearly shows the world has moved a long way with regards to vehicle safety. But the Indian car industry seems way behind.
Even now, we see lots of cars without even an airbag! Waiting for the day when the government ensures each car and each model will have at least some basic safety equipment.

Firstly, cheers to the engineers! They probably have prevented more injuries and saved more lives then any other profession! :thumbs up

The slow motion video shows the new car intruding into the older car's cabin. The newer car's cabin is secure with minimal intrusions. This, I believe shows that it is important to have a structurally solid car before having airbags. Not sure how much airbags would help in a car which is structurally weak to bear an impact.

Another question would be, what if two new Corollas crash into each other in this test. Will both of their cabins be intact? I would assume so, but still could be a good demonstration of how modern structures work to distribute force of impact around the cabin and trying to keep occupants safer.

Came across a similar crash test video between the outdated Nissan Tsuru and the modern 2016 Nissan Versa. The Tsuru was on sale at Mexico and the Versa was on sale at the United states. Both are cheap sedans but the Versa is a much more modern engineered car than the Tsuru.

The modern cars have much better safety devices-
Keeping airbags aside what we see from both the video's are, in the modern cars the cabin remains intact. The crumple zone works much better and the roof of the car does not cave in. Over all the structural integrity of the versa fared much better just like the new Corolla compared to the 1999 Corolla. Its amazing how safety has evolved over the years. Most modern cars with air bags and abs are really safe, we could just hope its driven by a sane guy to make it safer!

The good thing from Nissan is after this test they stopped selling Tsuru in Mexico.

The video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85OysZ_4lp0

On the same lines, Toyota stopped selling the Echo in MENA (Middle East and North Africa Region) and replaced it with the Yaris. The Echo was one of the worst cars as far as passenger safety was concerned.

This video highlights one of the main reasons that I moved from the 1st-gen City Vtec to the Civic. Just wasn't confident with the Vtec on highway runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106 (Post 4200215)
Even now, we see lots of cars without even an airbag! Waiting for the day when the government ensures each car and each model will have at least some basic safety equipment.

That day isn't too far away - Indian cars will soon be crash tested and have airbags as standard.

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Originally Posted by OrangeCar (Post 4200316)
They probably have prevented more injuries and saved more lives then any other profession!

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I believe shows that it is important to have a structurally solid car before having airbags.
Well said!

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Originally Posted by GTO (Post 4200501)
That day isn't too far away - Indian cars will soon be crash tested and have airbags as standard.


Apart from testing the cars , educating the consumer should be taken care off. I have noticed in a lot of car showrooms the customer is just not asking the right questions on safety. The talks that I have overheard is mainly on mileage, touch screen infotainment with navigation and now the latest one is drls.

Once the mandatory crash tests are in place the government should make it mandatory for the car companies to put a crash rating sticker on the car, Just like we have power consumption ratings on white goods. At least then, the consumer will start asking about the ratings and the manufacturers will surely be embarrassed to display stickers with low safety ratings on their cars.
Imagine Renault trying to sell their solid looking duster with a zero star or a 2 star safety sticker pasted on the front windshield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALTIMAed (Post 4200366)
On the same lines, Toyota stopped selling the Echo in MENA (Middle East and North Africa Region) and replaced it with the Yaris. The Echo was one of the worst cars as far as passenger safety was concerned.

Talking of the Yaris and ANCAP safety ratings on the same page, reminds me that I need to pen down my thoughts and research while buying a car for our daughter in Melbourne last month.

I wanted a car with ANCAP 3.5 stars or 4 stars, but nothing seemed to fit into our budget. A 30% increase in the budget was required. ANCAP 5 stars was not affordable - these are cars sold from model year 2011 onwards, with at least 6 airbags, ESC, traction control and rollover mitigation (compulsory in Australia from 2011).

So we shortlisted a few makes and models, with ANCAP 3.5/4 stars, and these included:
The Alto, from model year 2011 (now discontinued), was ANCAP 4 star, but Suzuki recommends 93RON (or above) petrol for it. One gets 91RON and 95 RON, but not 93RON - and Suzukis don't take E10 petrol (the others in the list do). 95 RON being a fair bit more expensive, we decided against the Alto finally. But then, these Manesar-built Altos come with 6 airbags, ABS, EBD, traction control, ESC, cruise control and rollover mitigation (to go up to ANCAP 4 stars). That list of safety features is unheard of in MSIL cars sold in India!

The Yaris, especially the 3 door version, on the other hand, is built strong. With 2 airbags, seatbelt pretensioners, ABS and EBD, it scores a respectable ANCAP 4 stars - take a look at this page: https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-rati...a/yaris/c5db36, and the video (with 6 airbags):

How safety has evolved! ANCAP crash test of 1998 vs 2015 Toyota Corolla-yaris-ancap.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9daW5j_ZXOQ
The bodyshell integrity is impressive, and we put a 2006 model with almost 250,000 km on the top of our list because of the price; went & saw it the first day we landed there, and were so pleased that we bought it right then!

How safety has evolved! ANCAP crash test of 1998 vs 2015 Toyota Corolla-yaris.jpeg

Now, as ALTIMAed mentioned to me in off-forum discussions, it's a 11-year-old car with lots of mileage, and he hoped I'd gone over it with an electron microscope before buying! Well, I checked it out reasonably closely, and the engine and mechanicals were fine - but the government checked out a lot of other stuff for me, because the car had to clear its Certificate of Roadworthiness (RWC) before I could register it in my daughter's name. Read more about it here: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/regi...roadworthiness.

Now, with the RWC, the car gets a complete check of multiple systems, including safety systems, and the check report is valid for 1 month. In this month, I, as the buyer, can point out to the dealer (and VicRoads) if there are any deficiencies related to the RWC, which were not corrected before he sold the car to me, and the RWC tester can be heavily penalised for missing out on these - so the RWC tester makes triple sure that everything is in order before issuing the certificate.

So what do they check?
Quote:

  • Wheels and Tyres
  • steering and Suspension
  • Brakes
  • Seats and Seat Belts
  • Lamps, Signals, Reflectors etc.
  • Exhaust and Emission Controls
  • Windscreen and Windows
  • Windscreen Wpers, Washers etc.
  • Body and Chassis
  • Engine and Driveline
  • Other Items

Details are available in this document:
RWC.pdf

I could therefore buy the car in peace, and over the next week or so, check out at leisure if everything was all right - and if not, I could go back to the dealer and point out problems. Such as, the parking light switch had gone kaput (he had it replaced free of charge).
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO (Post 4200501)
That day isn't too far away - Indian cars will soon be crash tested and have airbags as standard.

Allow me to be very sceptical here. The testing standards would be nowhere close to global standards. Car makers will lobby to lower the crash test parameters, and airbags will continue to be nominally fitted and designed not to work at critical times, even as multiple reports pour in even now about shortcuts being adopted for airbags, and how they refuse to activate or protect occupants. And something like the RWC would not happen in any stringent fashion, in my lifetime.

This is the reason for me to get rid of my wonderful Ford Ikon 1.6. An awesome driving machine with zero safety features - not at all ideal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samba (Post 4200330)
Came across a similar crash test video between the outdated Nissan Tsuru and the modern 2016 Nissan Versa. The Tsuru was on sale at Mexico and the Versa was on sale at the United states. Both are cheap sedans but the Versa is a much more modern engineered car than the Tsuru.

On this note… It will be interesting if Toyota try a similar test between their new Corolla and the India-specific Etios!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 4201018)
A 30% increase in the budget was required. ANCAP 5 stars was not affordable - these are cars sold from model year 2011 onwards, with at least 6 airbags, ESC, traction control and rollover mitigation (compulsory in Australia from 2011).

Quote:

The bodyshell integrity is impressive, and we put a 2006 model with almost 250,000 km on the top of our list because of the price; went & saw it the first day we landed there, and were so pleased that we bought it right then!
If safety is a top priority, it's best to buy used :thumbs up. Go certified if peace-of-the-mind is mandatory. Whatever the budget, you can buy a safer used car than a new one.

Quote:

But then, these Manesar-built Altos come with 6 airbags, ABS, EBD, traction control, ESC, cruise control and rollover mitigation (to go up to ANCAP 4 stars). That list of safety features is unheard of in MSIL cars sold in India!
Hate these double standards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vb-san (Post 4201099)
This is the reason for me to get rid of my wonderful Ford Ikon 1.6. An awesome driving machine with zero safety features - not at all ideal.

Not only the absence of safety features, but the poor braking ability alone makes the Ikon 1.6 a dangerous car.

Five-star safety ratings at risk for dozens of models.

Five-star safety ratings for some of Australia’s most popular new cars are at risk of being erased as Australia’s crash-test authority issues expiry dates for older models – to make it easier for consumers to compare like-for-like scores.


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More than a dozen popular models such as the Toyota Prado, Mitsubishi Triton, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, Mitsubishi ASX, Nissan Navara, Mazda CX-3, Mazda2, Suzuki Vitara, Volkswagen Amarok, and Volkswagen Passat are at risk of having their five-star safety ratings erased at the end of this year – unless they are replaced by new models, or undergo a safety upgrade and a new round of tests.

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Another dozen or so popular vehicles – such as the Hyundai i30, Kia Rio, Kia Stonic, Mazda CX-9, Mazda MX-5, Jeep Cherokee, Jeep Compass, LDV T60 ute and LDV D90 SUV – also risk being stripped of their five-star scores by the end of 2023 or 2024 unless they too are replaced by new models, or undergo safety upgrades and a new round of tests.
Under previous crash-test rating guidelines, car companies were allowed to advertise a five-star safety score – even if it was up to, or more than, a decade old – despite the vehicle being unlikely to earn a five-star score if assessed against recent criteria.
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However, they don’t have the same advanced safety aids and occupant protection as recently-introduced rivals – which have been tested against more stringent crash test criteria.
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Some five-star scores for vehicles still on sale today – such as the Fiat 500 – date back to 2008. The five-star scores for other vehicles, such as the Mitsubishi ASX and Mini Cooper, date back to 2014.
Link

Volkswagen's Passat will be without an ANCAP safety rating at the end of 2022, owing to new rules from the crash test authority.

How safety has evolved! ANCAP crash test of 1998 vs 2015 Toyota Corolla-minimumrequirements7_2021.jpg

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the Government-funded independent crash testing authority announced a six-year expiry date for its star ratings, meaning any vehicle which hasn't been re-tested since 2015 will have an 'untested' label applied at the end of the year – with the current generation Volkswagen Passat one of those in the firing line.
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Last tested at launch in 2015, the Passat scored a five-star rating, despite safety equipment such as adaptive cruise control, rear traffic alert, front assist, lane assist and side assist being optional on the base variant – although each of these features became standard when the model was updated in 2020.
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Despite more safety tech including 360° proactive occupant protection, manoeuvre braking, travel assist, emergency assist and pedestrian monitoring being included in the 2020 update, ANCAP doesn't count the addition of this equipment as enough to warrant a reissuing of the Passat's five-star rating.
As a result, VW has hit out at ANCAP's decision to apply the six-year rule to the Passat, joining calls from those who question the relevance of the organisation.

Link

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkman10 (Post 5263446)
As a result, VW has hit out at ANCAP's decision to apply the six-year rule to the Passat, joining calls from those who question the relevance of the organisation.

VW has been complaining about ANCAP for a long time now, even questioning the results altogether because they use LHD Euro NCAP results on RHD cars and then do an audit once in a while revealing differences that "emphasise the importance of local testing".

I can't find the exact link at the moment but I'm sure I read something about Volkswagen in particular having an issue with this.

That said, Euro NCAP has already implemented the rating expiry system and VW seemingly had no problem with that.

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It doesn't mean the result will be removed, it just means Volkswagen won't be able to use it in communications without a retest under the newer protocols. And I don't see a problem with that because ANCAP would have to test those updated systems on the Passat to verify their performance.

The rating expiry makes sense because a 2014 test was a lot less comprehensive than a 2022 test and it might be unfair to an OEM with a 2022 five star rating to have a competitor advertising a much older rating, even with the date stamp attached. It doesn't mean a rating will expire every time the protocols change, because the result can be advertised for some years along with the date stamp.

That sais, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't hard to compare most NCAPs' ratings, eg. is a 2019 5-star Euro NCAP car better than a 2020 4-star car? (or, how would the 2020 car have performed if tested in 2019?) In terms of pushing the industry forward it's a good idea, but for consumers it's confusing. Only the IIHS has been able to get it perfect so far, assign a rating for each individual test that doesn't change over the years (and hence can be compared), and update the criteria for the Top Safety Pick Awards (which are published with their datestamp) every year. It's a very transparent system: I can compare the moderate overlap performance of a 1995 car with a 2021 car and not be confused.


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