Team-BHP - One-Way Spikes to prevent wrong-side driving?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sameer 26 (Post 4379698)

Think it's too much asking army to manage traffic? There is predefined task for armed forces and requesting them to manage daily traffic is not right. please:
We have separate department to manage traffic and we should think about empowering them with right power and manpower would be right approach.

No, see all I have written; the army will have to be there only in the background - just a few soldiers armed with one machine gun is all it takes, to ensure that the traffic police are not lynched while impounding vehicles. It could even be some other force, that knows and is visibly seen to know how to handle automatic weapons.

The actual enforcement job would be carried out by the same cops that do it today.

There may also be a video cameraman attached to this roving unit. To keep the cops on their toes.

We can talk empowerment and manpower till the cows come home; the fact is that Indians respond only to severe punishment threats.

No offence @Sawyer. Apologies but I still feel army should be left out of this mess (managing tasks that they do best).
Even if you keep one armed person at each junction, it would mean keeping few task forces out of real action that they are designated.
Although I agree with having camera recording of all junction (think it's already in place at few junctions) and penalise offenders.
Once people start getting penalised, they would think twice next time they broke any rule.
Another point would be removing political cover for such offenders. Many times people don't care about rules, just because they know some 'xyz'

How do you propose to protect the policeman who on the spot impounds the two wheeler or car that is proceeding down the one way in the wrong direction? How will you ensure he or she isn't assaulted - you do know that cops are getting run down by offending cars in India?

And Pune needs just one roving unit with a cameraman; not one on every one way. Rove around on a surprise basis for a month and see how people will be too scared to go down the wrong way. And repeat this once in while.

Indians follow traffic rules all over the world except in India. Why do you think that is?

Expanding this, the entire traffic mess can be easily sorted with draconian strictly enforced financial penalties in less than a year. If there is the will to do so. But none of us want this, we will just go on adjusting till there is nothing left to adjust.

To the title thread: among other issues there is the one that these will disappear as they are laid, overnight.

Indians remove heavy stones in median strips at night and break down built up concrete walls to be able to insert their two wheelers at their convenience from one side of the road to the other because they can't be bothered to drive another 400/800 metres to use constructed openings in the medians - managing these obstacles is child's play to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer (Post 4379731)

To the title thread: among other issues there is the one that these will disappear as they are laid, overnight.

Couldn't agree more! We Indians like shortcuts even if it means putting your life at risk. Quite possible, people will either remove or break these strips to get their vehicle through. Or might come up with some interesting invention which would put entire efforts of laying those strips to waste.
(Maybe they come up with ways to get past it without damaging vehicle)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer (Post 4379750)

It is actually quite simple and we do it all the time wherever we feel like; just build a speed breaker over the strip. Job done.

Hahaha:D true!

Believe root cause of current traffic situation is inefficient public transport. It has lead to huge number of private vehicles that roads can accommodate or traffic police can manage. It's easier to track offenders when number is low. Example would be helmet rule. It's possible to implement something if most of the people follow rules and only handful of people are breaking it. But it's extremely difficult if situation is other way around.

At 7 am this morning, I saw a man in a flash new Mercedes SUV drive for 200 metres on the wrong side of the road, and then cut across a traffic signal just before the oncoming traffic started, causing a near miss, to be able to go in his desired direction. The legal alternative would have involved an additional distance of about a kilometre, the sum of the required to and fro. Where does one even place the supposed fancy strip to stop this? The man would have just swerved around it, even if it meant a further encroachment into the wrong side.

And he had a child in the car, learning the lesson. How will this nonsense then ever be sorted out, with parents showing the next generation, by example, how to be an Ugly Indian?

Except by an on the spot impounding of the car, and auctioning it in a month if it is not bought back at the reserve price equal to even the depreciated value of the car, by the offender. With this price paid, will the man dare to repeat the offence? Will the poor man, if the equivalent treatment is done to his two wheeler?

I suspect not. Even the rich can't buy a new Merc that often.

All it will take to fix this is one month. And at the most, in twelve months all other driving violations can be terminated.

IF we are ready to be a nation of zero tolerance to adjustments. But the tragedy is that many of us love India for its culture of adjustments and jugaad. And we then get the entire package, we can't pick and choose.

As to ascribing this problem to having too many cars, the root cause of that is having too many people. As is the case for all our troubles. But if we are going to be resigned to that as an excuse, we may as well give up on every thing other than waiting for a nuclear war or some natural calamity to eliminate half our population.

Well said @Sawyer
You plan to punish offenders heavily. Agree it's difficult for people to purchase same vehicle multiple times and hence, they would start following rules. It looks perfect for corporate discussions and it might work in places where there is structured format.
But in case of India where people would start objecting things irrespective of it's advantages to gain some personal mileage. I see it's implementation a no-show.
Day you start it, there would be many organisations coming forward objecting the decision.
Unless there is political will and people themselves support it, irrespective of how much we discuss I don't see any change happening.
Have seen many people following rules only when they see cops around. Agree there are few who would still break them but mostly people follow in presence of cops. Having more cops would be simple solution to at least reduce the number of offenders. Managing small number of offenders is easier than bigger chunks.
Having these strips could be one step that will deteriorate few from driving wrong side! Maybe!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sameer 26 (Post 4379880)

Unless there is political will and people themselves support it, irrespective of how much we discuss I don't see any change happening.

That is exactly why I see India changing very slowly, constrained by the rate of the lowest common denominator. And why all things in India will for sure get a lot worse before they perhaps start getting better. Therefore, enjoy today. Tomorrow will be a lot worse.

India also can never have enough cops to control the entire population by just presence everywhere. We are far too many in number. See the example of what happened in Bangalore in 2006 or 2007 when for two days, the mob ruled the streets and cops were chased in a way that they had to give up and run away to hide till the rioting was basically stopped by the mercy of God - heavy rains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer (Post 4379717)

Indians follow traffic rules all over the world except in India. Why do you think that is?

Couldnt agree with you more sir. Take the below example, from the IT industry concentrated region of Pune, where I am sure many of those merrily moving in all directions have spent atleast some time abroad.
Do they learn from their experiences abroad? Nope!

There is usually a cop at the T-Junction ahead but just see the amount of offenders!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08eKuhBEfNU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKJvUm7NSM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajo (Post 4379937)

Take the below example, from the IT industry concentrated region of Pune, where I am sure many of those merrily moving in all directions have spent atleast some time abroad.
Do they learn from their experiences abroad? Nope!

Lol. You can take the Indian out of India but you cannot take India out of the Indian.

It is very likely that some of these cars carry TBHP stickers as well.

On the topic of proportionate and realistic punishment: If, one day, I make a mistake or do a really stupid thing, and it costs me a tyre or two, I'd find that tough to afford. It is way beyond a fine in hundreds, or even a couple of thousands.

If, on the other, hand, my car was impounded according to Sawyer's system, I would not be able to afford to buy it back. It would be a huge loss and leave me car-less.

Two more things. Any such system, just like fining (why not a Rs20,000 fine: that would hurt too), all that sort of stuff requires police staff, on the spot, catching the offender. Most, in most places, will simply continue to get away with it.

Second, what is under discussion is a practical, existing, even under trial use, system. Maybe the Team-BHP can think of a better way, but this is a way that is happening, right now, and both its pros and cons deserve debate.

Extreme situations demand extreme counter measures. And having the equivalent of a fully loaded Jumbo Jet crash every day on Indian roads - daily premature deaths in excess of 400, the highest in the world and the one place we overtook China a few years ago - are extreme situations.

I have offered 3 cons for this device, and reading just the first page, I have seen others. I am happy to concede the floor permanently on this thread to listen to any pros and how to make these strips work in India. IMO, it is a horse that is crippled even before it gets into the starting gate, but that is just IMO.

Two points before I quit this thread: I suggested the fines I did as the kind of instant danda that Indians will respond to with alacrity. There may other approaches, but I believe that the fine has to both be very steep and be escalating in line with the cost of the vehicle. So if it is 20,000 for a Nano, it ought to be 20,00,000 at the other end. And 10,000 for a two wheeler. And Indians respond very well to a heavy hand in places like Singapore without any need for visible police staff. The mere threat of it will be enough after the first few rigorously implemented surprise campaigns that are publicised well in advance; working CCTV cameras will do the rest. Just subcontract the viewing of these to a private company to be paid on the basis of how many captured on camera offenders are flagged for fining, job done. Of course this is India; there may be a need for a hidden CCTV camera pointed at the CCTV cameras to capture who is disabling them.

The other point: where public services are concerned, does it matter a tiny jot what is discussed here? Auto makers may take this forum as a feedback tool, but I can't see that our leaders and bureaucrats care about TBHP, even if they know about it. All that our discussions here can do is sometimes achieve changes at an individual level, in getting a few to be the change they want to see. That's it, much as we would like to think otherwise.