[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Does baleno have lane change assist, autonomous braking etc on which the Punto scored less?

Baleno with safety pack got 4 stars in Euro NCAP crash test and the one without these safety assist features has got 3 stars. Anyways it's not fair to compare decade old chassis of Punto with new cars like Baleno, Swift etc. This crash test clearly showed that heavier cars doesn't mean safe all the time. BHPian CrAzY dRiVeR compared Punto with 855 Kg Euro Swift and that clearly showed how modern chassis Swift scored much better . Forget the star rating, read the detailed reports.. You will know how Punto scored less with poor whiplash protection and injury to critical human body parts.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Yes, in the past. We all know how Swift was compromised for Indian market. But Maruti has not done that for Baleno. It's made only in India and exported to Europe. The body shell is same. I have confirmed it personally from my birdies and even the weight is same. Even S-Cross 1.6 made in Hungary and made in India weigh almost same, so I believe Maruti has not compromised on structural integrity . But I can't be very sure in case of S-Cross like Baleno.

Nothing more than a good scoop / assumption till it is proved in NCAP tests. But I sure do hope it is proved right.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Anyways it's not fair to compare decade old chassis of Punto with new cars like Baleno, Swift etc.

The new generation cars from FIAT like the TIPO did not fare exceptionally great in Euro NCAP tests.
The Argo was refused to be given voluntarily by FIAT for LATIN NCAP test.

[vb-saan]

Is it bad for any car to score zero stars in safety tests? Absolutely yes!
But how relevant is this for our market, or how does it impact us? I would say it’s negligible.
Less than 100 units move out of the showroom every month, and it’s as safe/unsafe as many other big sellers in our market. Think of it – for every Punto (or derived models) sold, there are around 60-80 Kwids, 140 Wagon Rs and so on sold in Indian market.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Baleno with safety pack got 4 stars in Euro NCAP crash test and the one without these safety assist features has got 3 stars. Anyways it's not fair to compare decade old chassis of Punto with new cars like Baleno, Swift etc. This crash test clearly showed that heavier cars doesn't mean safe all the time. BHPian CrAzY dRiVeR compared Punto with 855 Kg Euro Swift and that clearly showed how modern chassis Swift scored much better . Forget the star rating, read the detailed reports.. You will know how Punto scored less with poor whiplash protection and injury to critical body parts (human body parts).

Yes, just a heavy car doesnt do wonders. Ambasador cant be safer than baleno. But the practical results as seen in the photos on accident thread and all over dont seem to be well aligned with 3 star or 4 star ratings that the baleno has got. Similarly the real world experiences of Fiat punto and linea accidents speak something else.

Attaching 2005 documents which had different results than the 2017 in terms of driver injuries etc. Something doesn't seem legitimate if you see two files back to back.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Nothing more than a good scoop / assumption till it is proved in NCAP tests. But I sure do hope it is proved right.

Absolutely

Anyways all the cars sold in India would be crash tested. The norms might not be strict for sure. But that would be good enough for comparison. If Punto is still on sale, it would be interesting to see how it scores against light weight but modern chassis cars like Baleno, Swift etc. I believe the results would be similar to Euro NCAP.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Attaching 2005 documents which had different results than the 2017 in terms of driver injuries etc. Something doesn't seem legitimate if you see two files back to back.

The scoring system is different. Whiplash injuries were not considered in 2005 test as per the report. Both 2005 and 2017 reports say poor protection of femur. The 2005 car even had side airbags. I don't think anything is wrong, it's just the new norms and scoring pattern.

[narayans80]

Fiat group doesn't have such a great reputation in its home turf. Fiat-Lancia-Alfa Romeos are outnumbered by large margin by VW, Citroen, Peugeot. A zero rating on a well known model, is only going to bring the brand image down further.

[varoon9999]

It's alarming situation for Fiat to pull up their socks and brace themselves to be in the race if at all they are interested in taking the Fiat legacy ahead. Indian market of-lately has become dumping ground for many manufactures from all across the globe. Products like Datsun Go & Go + both will get NCAP rating in multiples of negatives. I wonder how they get okay-ed to be sold in Indian market.

Indian government plans to set up its own safety authority, the Bharat National Car Assessment Programme (BNCAP), which will rate vehicles on safety. How generous or stringent they will be, time only will reveal.Our Govt. needs to value the human life, agreed we are the most populated country but "life is a life" and to save one we must have stricter norms and parameters in place.

2018 October is the deadline for all auto manufacturer to equip all their products with ABS, Airbag & speed warning alarm. I hope and wish they stick to the deadline given, they have been deferring this time and again.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Absolutely

Anyways all the cars sold in India would be crash tested. The norms might not be strict for sure. But that would be good enough for comparison. If Punto is still on sale, it would be interesting to see how it scores against light weight but modern chassis cars like Baleno, Swift etc. I believe the results would be similar to Euro NCAP.
.

Dont want to spoil the party, but i have few surveyor friends who survey the accident cars day in and day out. I dont want to debate on how safe lighter balenos are, but the photographs and tragic deaths in these cars dont align with the ratings or discussions we are doing here.

Have also seen VW and Fiat cars in similar and more fiercer accidents in India. The occupants are still alive to tell the great stories - without whiplash

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Dont want to spoil the party, but i have few surveyor friends who survey the accident cars day in and day out. I dont want to debate on how safe lighter balenos are, but the photographs and tragic deaths in these cars dont align with the ratings or discussions we are doing here.

Have also seen VW and Fiat cars in similar and more fiercer accidents in India. The occupants are still alive to tell the great stories - without whiplash

So are you saying the ratings/organizations like NCAP are complete bluff and instead we should go by what surveyors/real life incident happened in the past?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Have also seen VW and Fiat cars in similar and more fiercer accidents in India. The occupants are still alive to tell the great stories - without whiplash

Exceptions are not examples . These kind of stories fool the majority. Also I think it's the most immature way ever to judge the cars based on random accident pics.

[paragsachania]

And till now I was thinking this thread is about the FIAT Punto receiving 0 Stars in Euro NCAP rating?

Invariably, despite of the fact that we have been having a very healthy discussion till now with some valid points with justifications from each one, we seem to have taken the same path again - The path to malign anyone else who even scored marginally better based on today's test criteria by NCAP by simply referring to images and experiences in the past and completely ignoring how 2 cars fare in terms of rating by the same agency where one is on an old platform while the rest (whichever are being discussed) are on a supposedly modern platform!

Trust me, this won't end and we all know that history repeats. I am sure we will get to the extent to say Europeans usually don't drive full house and hence fatalities are less while we Indians have a habit to stock up the car with maximum passengers and drive dangerously and hence we witness more deaths.

My own experience says the Punto is a real Solid car and very rarest of the rare cases I have seen anyone losing lives or experiencing serious injuries.

Fact of the matter today: The same Punto has apparently scored less, as per today's criteria by NCAP where others have fared better.

I am more than sure that the newer platform of Punto might easily score better than the Baleno or the Swift or even the S-Cross? But then, please release that soon, test that and we will then discuss why the current Swift or Baleno are unsafe against the newer Punto, when that happens.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

So are you saying the ratings/organizations like NCAP are complete bluff and instead we should go by what surveyors/real life incident happened in the past?

Nopes, i am not saying that at all. NCAP is the benchmark obviously. Just putting forward the real world experiences. Request you to stop reading between the lines.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Exceptions are not examples . These kind of stories fool the majority. Also I think it's the most immature way ever to judge the cars based on random accident pics.

True its hard to judge any car with pics. If exceptions are in minority well they are not examples. If exceptions are norms seen in India, wont help ignoring them.

But truly its great that the norms are getting stricter and tough forcing the manufacturers to build better and safer cars for us. Huge applauds to manufacturers like Volvo who provide the best safety assists.

Fiat should upgrade themselves and push the new platform aggressively. They have no future in India, but atleast they should manage affairs in Europe going forward.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

True its hard to judge any car with pics. If exceptions are in minority well they are not examples. If exceptions are norms seen in India, wont help ignoring them.

I had a bad crash in my SX4 few years back. The damage was huge. I walked away with not even a single external injury. But due to high velocity impact, there was a minor vertebral fracture. If you look at the pics of my SX4, the damage was bad. One of my Junior also crashed his SX4 and the damage was nowhere near compared to my car and he was dead on the spot. Real world crash scenarios doesn't prove anything as it's impossible to know all the details about the crash in most of the cases.

Huge applauds to manufacturers like Volvo who provide the best safety assists.

Manufacturer can only make the cars safe upto some limit. As I said before here : No car is safe at higher speeds.

Fiat should upgrade themselves and push the new platform aggressively. They have no future in India, but atleast they should manage affairs in Europe going forward.

They would definitely do that as they have to survive in Europe.

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by volkman10

But the problem here is almost all manufacturers have upgraded their cars with new models and NCAP tested ( SWIFT/ POLO/ FORD KA+, etc.).

Absolutely, I am surprised how Fiat has been able to sell an old model for so long.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sergio has been a very poor CEO in this aspect. Cant think of many other cars (except some SUVs) which had such a long life span. 5-6 years itself is considered too much in the international market and Sergio dragged it for 12!

Hmm, its interesting how they are lethargic while other companies under FCA have been putting out newer models.