Team-BHP > Road Safety


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd August 2018, 22:05   #181
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 60,155
Thanked: 192,692 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Communication from Mahindra.pdf! Sharing an image version of the PDF for ease of viewing:

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-communication-mahindrapage001.jpg
GTO is offline   (42) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 00:38   #182
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 73
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Attachment 1786439! Sharing an image version of the PDF for ease of viewing:

Attachment 1786440
I am amazed and astonished and shocked by this letter reproduced from Mahindra. Now since they have chosen to, I think it's time that I should share the entire chronology of messaging, mailing and conversations with the entire hierarchy of Mahindra , like a white paper. And the anguish, angst, insensitivity and corporate bullying I was subjected to.
I can understand their discomfort at their brand getting nailed and their customer service coming to their rescue.
I demanded for a third party probe and one that is the best in the world. I have repeatedly requested for their airbag crash and certification reports for my model in the format required. None has been replied to. It's the same story from the beginning of insisting on me and coaxing and bullying to handing over the critical components of the car and the car itself.
Cleverly worded mails as replies to my mails that confirm nothing but help you drive in circles.

My son is just out of a major brain surgery and due to infections earlier caused by multiple skull fractures and excessive bleeding, is still under observation in the hospital.
I think Mahindra chose an apt time to reinforce my determination and commitment to fight for this cause not only for Madhav but for each and every consumer for this car and the likes of such vehicles.
It's plainly a diversion tactic through this letter reproduced.
I am writing this mail pacing up down the hospital corridor feeling frustrated and distressed.
I request you all to give me time until my son is discharged, to reply on this and present the truth.
Not to win brownie points but to present facts as they are.
I am sure putting all documentary facts on this thread just the way Mahindra's has done it, won't violate rules of this forum.
arvindb4 is offline   (55) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 00:42   #183
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 2,719
Thanked: 28,262 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Attachment 1786439! Sharing an image version of the PDF for ease of viewing:
Mr. Rajan Wadhera
President-Automotive
Mahindra & Mahindra Limited
Gateway Building,
Apollo Bunder
Mumbai-400001


Dear Mr. Rajan Wadhera,

Thank you for your open letter and stating you are in touch with the victim's family. It is at least in part thanks to informed and serious social forums such as Team BHP that Mahindra & Mahindra have felt compelled to put out a written explanation. Nevertheless your gesture is appreciated.

Sir, by saying that airbags will deploy only if the impact is of a sufficient strength you are stating the obvious. So tell us a little more. Please could you clarify if the impact of this particular accident justified deployment of the airbags or not and if it did justify then what was the root cause of failure. If it did not justify then the reasons behind it. If the driver and front passenger were wearing their seat belts then by looks of the crushed car, general sense indicates, the bags should have deployed. If they don't or can't deploy in situations such as this then please enlighten the members of this forum as to what intensity or nature of impact will airbags in their Mahindra XUV's finally deploy. Many members and readers here are your customers. Most, if not all, are serious car drivers, car owners and car lovers. Being enthusiastic about cars most are reasonably well informed. A more thorough explanation from your side would be appreciated and your company would be respected for it. I realize as a senior corporate officer you have to put out carefully couched press releases but I do feel a proper explanation, without generic waffle, as to why air bags don't deploy when an XUV is crushed would be better appreciated by the few tens of thousands of your customers who read this forum.

In the interests of your customers and my fellow Team-BHP members I look forward to your more complete explanation. I write this letter with no motive than for my fellow readers and me to be better informed.

With kind regards,
V.Narayan

Last edited by V.Narayan : 3rd August 2018 at 00:47.
V.Narayan is offline   (76) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 01:03   #184
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 73
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Attachment 1786439! Sharing an image version of the PDF for ease of viewing:

Attachment 1786440
If every criminal (unless proven otherwise ) investigates and judges it's own crimes. Then we don't need courts or investigative Agencies or even law for that matter. Let's have a council of the Idi Amins of this world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Attachment 1786439! Sharing an image version of the PDF for ease of viewing:

Attachment 1786440
Dear Mr Wadhera,

You shall definitely need more than a pdf to match the poster awareness campaign that my son's friends and circle and hundreds of others across India are initiating it, for a good cause to save lives and make informed decisions when buying your brand or for that matter any brand that does not take its corporate and social responsibility seriously. They strongly feel that lives cannot be put at risks and standards and transparency have to be adhered to, governed by the best international practices. Life is equally precious whichever part of the world he may belong to.
I had, honestly for a moment thought that an honest, transparent and ethical approach would be taken, one that over rides all commercial self interests.
Alas!

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 3rd August 2018 at 08:02. Reason: Back to back posts merged.
arvindb4 is offline   (23) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 03:11   #185
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 928
Thanked: 1,282 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvindb4 View Post
I had, honestly for a moment thought that an honest, transparent and ethical approach would be taken, one that over rides all commercial self interests.
Alas!
The ill fated vehicle could not be accessible to the manufacturer for investigation since you are not sure that it won't be tampered with.

Investigation from an expert third party could not be started so far; your son's treatment is the most important priority naturally.

In this situation (when the option of investigation is not available), let us list out the actions expected from the manufacturer if an honest, transparent and ethical approach is to be taken.

My inputs:
In the owner's manual, the manufacturer has mentioned the impact locations / directions that cause airbag deployment. They shall now reveal the quantum of impact necessary for airbag deployment in each location / direction. Design values (nominal value and expected variation) shall be revealed for this and the same shall be demonstrated through practical trials (or Certifications). For this, we do not need the ill fated vehicle.

I appeal all other fellow members to put forward their suggestions too.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 3rd August 2018 at 03:13.
Rahul Bhalgat is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 06:23   #186
BHPian
 
bking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Delhi
Posts: 28
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

Sharing pictures of my recently crashed ford figo. I was driving and came out unscratched. The car went into a divider after slipping due to gravel. The divider had quite a height. Side impact only, still both the front airbags deployed and saved my life(my car doesn't come with curtain airbags). The no frontal impact and the ecu reading the deceleration, none of the symptoms were present. Mahindra needs to be dealt with. Wishing a speedy recover to Madhav sir, I am exactly his age and feel speechless as to what mahindra has let happen to him.
Attached Thumbnails
XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1533257556252.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1533257580038.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1533257597459.jpg  


Last edited by SDP : 10th August 2018 at 10:16. Reason: Typo
bking is offline   (41) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 08:20   #187
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 73
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bking View Post
Sharing pictures of my recently crashed ford figo. I was driving and came out unscratched. The car went into a divider after slipping due to gravel. The divided had quite a height. Side impact only, still both the front airbags deployed and saved my life(my car doesn't come with curtain airbags). The no frontal impact and the ecu reading the deceleration, none of the symptoms were present. Mahindra needs to be dealt with. Wishing a speedy recover to Madhav sir, I am exactly his age and feel speechless as to what mahindra has let happen to him.
Ford produces very safe cars. Last month my neighbours family came out unscathed in a similar accident in kutch on holiday. It was an Endeavour.
arvindb4 is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 08:38   #188
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beans Town
Posts: 1,780
Thanked: 7,410 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvindb4 View Post
I can understand their discomfort at their brand getting nailed and their customer service coming to their rescue.
I for one am an eternal cynic, so I believe you 100%. The PR of any company in the world, is perhaps the most selfishly-motivated and manipulative department ever.. even ahead of finance.

If one has eyes, he/she can see the damage that has happened to the vehicle. EVEN assuming the variety of permutations and combinations spanning inputs like the G-force, electronic modules, impact intensity as a deciding factor for each or all of the 6 airbags etc.. this seems like a far, far stretch merely by looking at the end result of the car. If this is how calibrations are done, I wouldn't mind if all 6 airbags opened up during a mere fender-bender.. better something and a loss of 1 odd lacs to replace airbags, than to have excuses saying that airbags only open up during x situation, y time and z damage.

May the truth prevail at the end. Every time I see a thread like this its a reminder for me and hopefully many others that the roads are never safe.
dark.knight is offline   (16) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 08:46   #189
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 73
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
The ill fated vehicle could not be accessible to the manufacturer for investigation since you are not sure that it won't be tampered with.

Investigation from an expert third party could not be started so far; your son's treatment is the most important priority naturally.

In this situation (when the option of investigation is not available), let us list out the actions expected from the manufacturer if an honest, transparent and ethical approach is to be taken.

My inputs:
In the owner's manual, the manufacturer has mentioned the impact locations / directions that cause airbag deployment. They shall now reveal the quantum of impact necessary for airbag deployment in each location / direction. Design values (nominal value and expected variation) shall be revealed for this and the same shall be demonstrated through practical trials (or Certifications). For this, we do not need the ill fated vehicle.

I appeal all other fellow members to put forward their suggestions too.
I agree with your points in general except on the car not being available for third party investigation. The car was always available for a third party investigation. , I needed airbag certification data and other information which only Mahindra can provide. I have already forwarded that query list but have not got any reply so far from Mahindra.
Once I can forward these details to the Automobile expert, I am sure that I can suggest the Agency.
My other observations expressed are based on what I have seen, read and have been told on the crash investigations and their outcomes in India and also from my personal journey with Mahindras on my particular issue.
We need a radical change in the entire system to plug the holes and be consumer centric from the safety angle. It's time that consumers stop being Guinea pigs on road and only those vehicles come on the road that have cleared every stringent test required before being launched
arvindb4 is offline   (11) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 09:37   #190
BHPian
 
abhinavrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pune
Posts: 31
Thanked: 37 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

We need a car data recorder (CDR) in all cars similar to the flight data recorder(CDR) used in airplanes. All car telemetry data and all sensor data to be stored for the last 1 or 2 days of driving time.

Not storing the data if the airbag sensor thresholds were not hit is absurd! What if the sensors malfunctioned? How can they troubleshoot that scenario without the actual sensor value at time of impact?
abhinavrm is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 10:26   #191
BHPian
 
ruzbehxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bombay
Posts: 791
Thanked: 2,003 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

I wish a speedy recovery to the kid.

Coming back to a crash. The front airbags will only deploy subject to a frontal collision and the force which has been calibrated into the system /ECU which is different for different manufacturers.
Question here is, what if the impact is so severe at the front "side" (vehicle with no side airbags) which leads to a complete shutdown of the car including the ECU, then in that case there will be no mechanism left to trigger the airbags.
I may be wrong here and this is just a general statement.

I too had the Old generation XUV500 for 5 years and my car had only front airbags (W6 2012 model)

These type and many more accidents will keep happening unless our mindset changes. The car manufacturers will keep taking us for a ride unless the norms are tightened and the Indian mentality changes.

Last month I read on this forum about a guy who was calling his car a tin can. But there were many who went against him saying that its an excellent car. Don't want to get into that debate here. What I am trying to get at is that the mentality needs to change.
Some standard questions are "Kitna deti hai" which is fair enough but very few bother about how many air bags the vehicle has and supposedly all airbags only in the top model.
Why is it that manufacturers provide all airbags in only the top model? Because we don't have such strict safety norms and we tend to accept things very fast, keeping safety as last priority. In the same top model we would be more excited to have Auto climate control, alloy wheels, leather seats etc etc. but least excited about all airbags.
A typical example. The Ford sells the Endeavour in India in a few variants but in the lower model (Trend) there are only 2 front airbags. Imagine paying 30+ lakhs and you get only 2 airbags. But still people buy it. The same model is sold abroad with all airbags. This is how manufacturers play with the Indian market because 1) No tight norms and 2) Least bothered Indian customers.

So friends we need to get out the shell of some manufacturers who surprisingly sell the highest number of cars in India and concentrate on the safety of our families.
ruzbehxyz is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 12:09   #192
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,033
Thanked: 3,266 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

I hope and pray for speedy recovery of your son. I can't imagine how you must be feeling but be rest assured we are all praying and are there to help in whatever way we can.

This thread seems to have opened a Pandora's box of unopened air bags in XUV's and I am honestly worried. This is not an isolated case. May be all the victims should get together and make it a class action.
extreme_torque is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 12:09   #193
BHPian
 
B103's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 414
Thanked: 279 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvindb4 View Post
None of the 6 airbags deployed. No seat covers, no accessories, no bumper guards. Seat belts on.
My son suffered from severe traumatic brain injuries. Right side of body, speech, hearing, motor skills are severely impaired and damaged.
Arvind, I chanced on this web link:
https://www.rushlane.com/mahindra-xu...-12276218.html

Both the responses are mentioned.

Last edited by B103 : 3rd August 2018 at 12:18.
B103 is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 12:53   #194
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 1,413
Thanked: 2,544 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Arvind, I chanced on this web link:
https://www.rushlane.com/mahindra-xu...-12276218.html

Both the responses are mentioned.
Quote:
Mahindra XUV500 airbags fail to deploy in crash Mahindra President explains why

Not all manufacturers chose to reply after a car crash. Mahindra on the other hand, sets an example for the industry.


By Rushlane Contributor On Aug 3, 2018
It seems that M&M finally has it's act going. They realize that this incident and this thread is a PR disaster for them, and can lead to a lot of Reputational Loss and even invite Regulator action (India!).
So now that they have been able to draft a "proper" initial response to this incident, they have simultaneously commissioned their entire PR machinery, to deflect the opinion towards the kind of responsibility that M&M is displaying (sic) and towards suggesting that the airbag deployment thresholds weren't met by this accident.


Arvind Ji - You have the support of this forum and it's members. Reach out to us, whenever you want, either on the forum or individually, and we shall step up in whatever limited individual capacities we can. This (and such) manufacturer needs to be taken to task and made to bleed.
roy_libran is offline   (13) Thanks
Old 3rd August 2018, 13:18   #195
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 73
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
It seems that M&M finally has it's act going. They realize that this incident and this thread is a PR disaster for them, and can lead to a lot of Reputational Loss and even invite Regulator action (India!).
So now that they have been able to draft a "proper" initial response to this incident, they have simultaneously commissioned their entire PR machinery, to deflect the opinion towards the kind of responsibility that M&M is displaying (sic) and towards suggesting that the airbag deployment thresholds weren't met by this accident.


Arvind Ji - You have the support of this forum and it's members. Reach out to us, whenever you want, either on the forum or individually, and we shall step up in whatever limited individual capacities we can. This (and such) manufacturer needs to be taken to task and made to bleed.
I am really grateful to you and the entire community here for the overwhelming support I hadn't expected or imagined.
arvindb4 is offline   (8) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks