![]() | #286 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 599
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If you are looking at EXACTness without could, can, maybe - we need a census. And a census of talking to all vehicle owners does not seem to be scientifically viable. Which is why I have suggested a statistical approach. If you are looking at a census, even Mahindra might not be able to help you Quote:
I never expected you to do any legwork. I explained a method scientifically to come up with a solution. Good luck buddy! Everyone's time is precious Last edited by bhpfaninblr : 8th August 2018 at 15:18. | ||
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![]() | #287 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 396
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As per my understanding, airbag deploys only if the person on the seat is belted up. (This is to avoid injury from the airbag being deployed). From the above pic and the condition of the passenger side airbag, it looks as if no one was on the seat, hence the bag is holding its inflated position / structure. Is this because of a faulty sensor? Last edited by Spinnerr : 8th August 2018 at 15:26. | |
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![]() | #288 | ||
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Ranchi
Posts: 4,006
Thanked: 8,998 Times
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![]() Below is straight from the Honda manual, please have a look at it: ![]() Quote:
Regards, Saket. Last edited by saket77 : 8th August 2018 at 15:40. | ||
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![]() | #289 | |
BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
This is the wonder of TBHP. So many people to point things out. Even I did not notice the "still inflated" passenger side airbag. ![]() FYI : There was no one in the passenger seat at the time of the accident. However, I was also under the impression that it is a single sensor for both airbags irrespective of whether someone is sitting there or not. As far as I know, there is an option in some newer model cars to switch off the passenger side airbag if the seat is empty but that facility is not there in the SX4. Regards, SS | |
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![]() | #290 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 243
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But on the point of the poster you are replying to, perhaps he jumped the gun a bit in drawing a "statistical inference", but the assumption that online access is similar across passenger vehicles in justifiable enough for a quick and dirty estimate. All this is academic BTW. Hope Madhav recovers and hope Arvind is able to get answers to his satisfaction. | |
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![]() | #291 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 105
Thanked: 61 Times
| ![]() This thread is creating good awareness where News18 has article on its front Web page https://www.news18.com/news/auto/xuv...=hp_top_pos_10 Arvind, wishing a speedy recovery to your son and we will provide all the support we can to fight Mahindra on this issue |
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![]() | #292 | ||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Venice of East
Posts: 578
Thanked: 716 Times
| ![]() Arvind, Hope Madhav recovers soon . I too use a XUV W8 model (2012) and really scared of the turn of events. As previously enquired in earlier posts, Did you go for the Mahindra Recall / Service Update? Are you sure, Madhav was wearing seat belt on? Quote:
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You seems to have some really bad experience with Mahindra. In the first post you quoted 4 instances of air bag not deploying. In the next post you have raised it to 10 instances. Can you please mention the 10 instances in Team BHP? I searched but did not get the 10 instances you've mentioned. Just curious. Last edited by Vasuki : 9th August 2018 at 21:19. | ||
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![]() | #293 | ||||||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,622
Thanked: 10,652 Times
| ![]() This particular crash is being discussed in various groups and in one of those groups, I was looking forward to what one particular gentlemen Sanjeev had to say regarding the crash. Somehow couldn't find his comments at all. So pinged him 1 on 1 a few hours back. The following is copy and paste from the chat. SDP : Quote:
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Last edited by SDP : 9th August 2018 at 22:01. Reason: Reproduced as is. Please ignore typos and shortforms etc | ||||||||
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![]() | #294 | ||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 635
Thanked: 554 Times
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impact zones to trigger the airbags. Last edited by Roy.S : 10th August 2018 at 00:19. | ||
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![]() | #295 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Even if I agree that the seat-belts were not worn, any of the air-bag not opening is simply not done. I have seen few XUV's with their air-bags being opened [in the yard or the body-shop of an ASC] and in this case it is baffling, something is wrong with the triggering mechanism is what I feel. And for the record, one XUV W8's airbags had opened despite the occupant not wearing seat-belt, he had his damages to show me [this was way back in 2015 IIRC]. |
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![]() | #296 | ||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mumbai
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| ![]() I have been out of action for more than 2 weeks due a personal emergency and have started really looking at this thread just 2-3 days back. So please allow me to jump in the middle of the on-going discussion. First and foremost, my heart goes out to Arvind and his family who are going through a terrible time due to what happened. I sincerely hope and pray that Madhav gets better and recovers fully soon. When I started reading the thread thoroughly from start yesterday, I was appalled by many of the comments. I have huge respect for this forum because of the maturity of the members here. So it was painful to witness the mindless Mahindra bashing (and even Tata in some posts) which has been going on, which is almost similar to the mob-violence that is so common nowadays.. just a sophisticated, polished-English version of it. There is no first-person account of what exactly happened. There has been no investigation (by police) about the accident itself (at least nothing shared on the thread) and no investigation (by manufacturer or any independent body) of the car involved to understand the reasons behind what happened. In that case, I fail to understand why so many well-educated and knowledgeable members jumped to the conclusion, putting the blame squarely on the car and the manufacturer. I am not an expert in this area and have commented on neither the cause of the accident nor the air-bag deployment failure as I consider it irresponsible to comment on something without having some depth in the area and having a complete understanding of what happened. Instead, I chose to reach out to someone who has the domain experience and sought some insights which have been shared verbatim some 2-3 posts above this. When I saw the accident car pics for the first time, even I thought that at least some airbags should have deployed. In fact, I would have preferred if all airbags would have deployed providing some protection to the accident victim. But, please note that the car is a machine and it works as per how it is designed and not as per what you and me would have liked or preferred it to behave. Are there any pointers to how the airbags in the XUV are designed to behave? Yes, just have a look at sandeepmdas's post and pics of owner's manual in this post. Hasn't the manufacturer clearly stated that in case of a frontal impact from a tree or a pole, the airbags would not deploy? Look at the pic of the damage to the cross-member behind the front-bumper. The impact is exactly in the center just like a impact from a tree/pole. If the car is designed that way and it is explicitly stated in the owner's manual, why are so many on this thread expecting the car to behave any other way? Sanjeev has pointed out a clearly visible un-bent crumple-zone bar on the driver's side door. Whether you or me like it or not, a severe impact to that bar is necessary for deployment of the side airbags. That's the way the machine is designed to work and I am pretty sure that's the way it works across the industry. Just in case you are not aware, please note that Mahindras (or for that matter any car manufacturer) doesn't design/manufacture airbags. Airbag modules are sourced from a handful of suppliers globally and I don't believe the car manufacturer would be allowed to implement/configure them in their cars in whichever way they want. The airbag supplier would disown any accountability in that case. Not directly applicable to this accident, but members have pointed out to another thread where a XUV toppled and side-airbags didn't deploy. Someone else has shared pic of another toppled XUV and lot of members are happy to feed those instances to their confirmation-bias and arrive at their own conclusions about airbag deployment in the XUV. How many have read sandeepmdas's post a few pages BEFORE and seen the illustration in the manual which clearly says that in case of a roll-over (a topple is first part of a rollover scenario) the side-airbags may not deploy? Why are so many people still expecting the side airbags to deploy in those cases? Even if we assume that in Arvind's case the airbags should have deployed and they didn't due to a malfunction, how does one ascertain whether this is an isolated incident or an issue with specific batches or a fundamental design flaw with the model? Without any investigation, how and why did some members jumped to the conclusions - "are airbags really installed in the XUV?", "all XUVs are unsafe" and even "all Mahindra vehicles are unsafe"? Frankly, very disappointing! Was expecting better from the members of this respected forum. The Mahindra statement talks about 7000 airbags consumed at dealerships. That means keeping aside the totaled vehicles (which would go to scrap mostly), there have been 7000 XUVs in which the airbags did deploy and were replaced as part of repairs. No idea how many XUVs have been in severe accidents and how many were totaled, but given that the total number of XUVs is about 2.19 lakh, isn't the 7000 number large enough to consider before members come to any sort of the conclusions about the safety of the XUV in general and probability of airbag deployment in particular? How many here are aware of the ANCAP crash test rating for the XUV5OO? If you are not, please search on YouTube. A certification from an independent international third-party agency which specializes in the domain. Why are so many members ready to ignore that and claim that the XUV is a Indian jugaad vehicle? Its time to keep your biases and prejudices aside and look at this case objectively. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
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![]() | #297 |
BHPian ![]() | ![]() Sorry SDP I am not convinced with your post. If we go by your post then this is even bigger issue than suspected, this is a defect in design. If the sensors in XUV are designed in a way to save Airbags rather than it's occupants it seems to be a flaw. |
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![]() | #298 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mumbai
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| ![]() Can you please cite other examples from vehicles of same segment / price-point where the design is different? Screenshots from owner's manual or any technical documentation would be highly appreciated. Last edited by SDP : 13th August 2018 at 15:16. Reason: typo |
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![]() | #299 | ||||
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Back to Chndgrh
Posts: 4,238
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![]() | #300 |
Senior - BHPian | ![]() Sorry SDP - With due respect to you, I must concede that I too am not convinced by either, your post, or your friend! I have two contentions why- 1. When I or anyone buys an Airbag equipped vehicle, the underlying expectation is that the Airbag would deploy in a severe accident - Period! If none out of the 6 air-bags thought it worth their while, to deploy in such an accident, because the manufacturer (perhaps) wanted the impact to happen in a certain way, then I believe that the malaise actually runs deeper because as consumers we are being misled by all the advertising and feature lists, all of which leads to better profit margins. By the way, in my very first post on this thread, I had also conceded that it would possibly be understandable if the front airbags did not deploy in this incident, but absolutely NOT the side and curtain ones. 2. After spending close to 15 years myself in the IT sector, I am wont to doubt the credibility of anyone who had to gravitate from the automobile sector to the IT sector for employment. I don't know the gentleman in question, and this doubt may be unfounded, but that IT PROGRAM MANAGEMENT stuck out like a Red Herring. I know my statement is highly controversial, and may even get me banned, but we do have an entire thread on the plight of IT graduates on this very forum and it's an excellent chronicle of the severe incompetence that is endemic in this industry or the refuge it provides to many incompetents, including me. Last edited by roy_libran : 10th August 2018 at 13:33. |
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