[ruzbehxyz]

The email from Mahindra is quite transparent. Now a decision has to be taken as to what has to be done further.
This process has gone quite far and hope some concrete solution comes up.
Wish Madhav a speedy recovery.

[IshaanIan]

I have seen reports on teambhp of other SUVs like Fortuner and few other xuvs also not deploying airbags upon impact. Perhaps proper airbag maintainence is not taught to service personnel at the workshops? These cars tend to be used in quite a rough manner over bad roads perhaps that fouls with the sensors in some way? I believe an investigation into this incident is paramount to the industry as it could provide useful information to the Indian automotive industry in terms of supplementary sensor based safety devices like airbags and traction control etc

[rocksterraghu]

I have been following this thread for weeks now. It has run into tens of pages with people wishing Arvind the strength and Madhav a speedy recovery. I completely understand what the father must be going through and a lot of support from our end would have only helped the cause.

Like someone else mentioned, even after 27 pages, for a regular reader, it is hard to spot the progress with the investigation of the car. Being an automotive forum, this defeats the purpose - people have been pouring in with their thoughts, this thread has gone off-topic several times, there are links on airbag technologies (helpful, maybe separately?), apprehensions on whether seat belt was worn etc and that has just diluted this thread.

I would also request the mods to consider closing this thread till there is substantial progress in the investigation. If God forbid the investigation goes against Arvind, we would have all provided unnecessary comments against Mahindra or vice versa if it is in favour of Arvind. This is now a very opinionated, confusing thread with no real content about the actual incident or the car. Once there is enough progress, Arvind or someone else could DM a mod and they could re-open the thread?

[thoma]

Originally Posted by rocksterraghu

I would also request the mods to consider closing this thread till there is substantial progress in the investigation. This is now a very opinionated, confusing thread with no real content about the actual incident or the car. Once there is enough progress, Arvind or someone else could DM a mod and they could re-open the thread?

We need to hear from Mr. Arvind regarding the contradictions mentioned in the e-mail from Mahindra, don't we?

[scorpioceo]

The communication from Mahindra as shared, indicates that their has been communication between both parties to move in a positive direction. This did not come across in the series of posts that have been......

I came across this article about Indian vehicles and their safety ratings as per Global NCAP. Link below:-
https://www.cartoq.com/7-affordable-...-jeep-compass/

It Indicates that Made in India are shoulder to shoulder with MNC / Foreign manufacturers in safety standards among others.

Just sharing with fellow members and like all concerned continue to pray for the Family And Madhav as the foremost concern and await to see some progress in the matter of ascertaining the cause of this incident.

[arvindb4]

After a lull the Messiah of Automobiles is back. I don't know how individuals, organizations and Companies live without a conscious mind or their conscience. It's the eternal race I guess. I know that ethics, empathy and humanity are pseudo concepts in today's world.
The brand is more important. I as a father am subverting their investigation. Ultimately Madhav will be at wrong. The Machine grey area and the manufacturer, the epitome of justice.
I am going to publish each and every bit as I am not afraid to hide.
What they are trying to claim and some are vouching is farthest from the truth. I can swear on my son.
If there was a definition of evil and conscious evil. I see it now.
Just regrets at the state of my country 🇮🇳.

No communication. All They sent was ARAI report against my 4 queries with a reply of 7 pages which has no mention of airbag certifications. Excuse by the MD himself is that I may not be able to decipher the airbag report, so they are not sending it.
My request is not to close the thread. However I cannot pervade on members, insisting on it. It's okay if you want to kill Madhav's voice. Go ahead. Shut the thread

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by rocksterraghu

I would also request the mods to consider closing this thread till there is substantial progress in the investigation.

Your arguments for closing the thread would have been understandable if they were made when arvindb4 was unable to post, but not now, when arvind is able to post again and Mahindra has also given it's side of the story.

Originally Posted by arvindb4

My request is not to close the thread. However I cannot pervade on members, insisting on it. It's okay if you want to kill Madhav's voice. Go ahead. Shut the thread

Don't lose hope arvind. Just because Mahindra's story seems plausible, don't think everyone here takes it as the gospel truth. I don't.

But the only way to disprove their contention that you are lying, is to share the documents/communication you have. And reply back point to point; after you have calmed down the anger.

Nobody here wants to shut down this thread for good. Everyone wants you to get justice for Madhav, because we all empathise with you. (You are probably the only bhpian who has close to 1000 likes for just 70 posts. Don't think even GTO holds that record.)

The only way this thread will get closed before a resolution is reached, is if we lose you to an infraction.

Originally Posted by GTO

Both parties need to sit on the table and decide future course of action with reference to the investigation.

This, I agree with

[Lalvaz]

Mahindra’s letter seems to suggest that they’re super cooperative and very eager to get to the root cause of the airbags not deploying. Very hard to understand who is speaking the truth when it’s ones word against another. My approach has been to look at past conduct.

M&M has been accused of cheating multiple dealers in the US. They’ve also been accused of stealing trade secrets. See link: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300243890.html

In the case of the spot weld coming off, M&M’s actions were blatantly dishonest. Repeated reminders to the chairman went unanswered and a crucial manufacturing flaw was just repaired without the consent of the owner.

In an earlier case from 2015: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-s...-deploy-2.html
Mr.Srinivas from M&M blames the accident on aquaplaning without inspecting the vehicle. Their email states that a detailed investigation will be done shortly but it’s been 3 years and no detailed investigation has been shared yet.

In Madhav’s case Arvind has been asking Mahindra for some details. M&am shared 2 e-mails of their side of the story. I urge you to re read both versions and decide for yourselves if it sounds reasonably logical and honest.

M&M by its actions has repeatedly proven that it can’t be trusted. I know I won’t buy their vehicles. What is needed is an independent investigation into the crash. No M&M investigation can or should be trusted.

Also please stop harping on closing this thread. This story is a long way away from closure.

[Turbanator]

From the emails written by Mahindra Dealership, it does appear that OP has not given access to the vehicle to Dealership or the company during the time it was parked there. This can be due to the fears of losing the evidence and mistrust on the brand/ officials as he has written to the Chairman and higher guys but didn't hear back. OP must have taken the vehicle from Dealership to get this independently probed in my opinion but sadly, I don't think there are many options.

Now, we all know most of these Automotive companies are more like assemblers, getting a lot of equipment and technologies from other companies and in all fairness, they need to be given a chance. It will be beneficial for everyone to find out the root cause of the failure. No one else apart from the OEM will be able to crack the reasons. Further investigations can find if the fault was in the component or the assembly and point to some sort of reason. I can understand the fear of tempering or falsifying the report but does he has any better option?

A car is a machine and whether a machine has malfunctioned or not can be known only if an investigation is conducted. Hence, in the instance , we were willing to conduct transparent investigation.

When Mahindra writes this, I will give them a chance. Maybe ask them to get an OEM representative from the Airbag ECU manufacturer involved and be present when they take out the components and if possible, let them take the components directly or if they agree to allow a representative of OP to be present while conducting an investigation at their factories though I am not sure if it will be practical.

But by not giving an opportunity to the Manufacturer and then citing that they are not doing good just because we don't trust won't be fair and OP needs to give them access to the vehicle.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by arvindb4

I would also like to reiterate that I have never refused inspection of the vehicle. The vehicle was was at the authorised workshop for insurance claim process for some days and no one looked at it and even the duplicate keys were sent.

Originally Posted by GTO

...
We have been in touch with Mr. Chetan Bhardwaj and Mr. Navin Singhal for the keys procurement but till 18th May 18 we did not receive the keys.
...
Without keys we are unable to diagnose on the mentioned attention for Air Bag not opening. Since after vehicle survey, on surveyor confirmation you took back the vehicle on 18th May 18. You are requested to provide the keys and the vehicle at the workshop premise for further investigation on the airbag non deployment
...
He had offered to procure duplicate keys from his brother, but this was not done. When the dealership followed up for the duplicate keys with Mr. Chetan Bhardwaj on 16th May , it was told that Mr. Arvind Bhardwaj did not have faith in the company's investigations
...

Some things seem contradicting here, which reduces a brownie point from whoever is not being right.

Anyway, here either party is not able to take into confidence a probe by the opponent. So then I think Judiciary is the only but painful way to settle this, am I right?

Is Mahindra afraid that an independent probe will tamper the proofs? Can't they be a silent member of an independent probe where their personnel can verify tampering and document the whole process? Is it not possible for Arvind go for the independent probe of the airbag ECM without getting the airbag certification details?

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by arvindb4

After a lull the Messiah of Automobiles is back. I don't know how individuals, organizations and Companies live without a conscious mind or their conscience. It's the eternal race I guess. I know that ethics, empathy and humanity are pseudo concepts in today's world.
The brand is more important. I as a father am subverting their investigation. Ultimately Madhav will be at wrong. The Machine grey area and the manufacturer, the epitome of justice.
I am going to publish each and every bit as I am not afraid to hide.
What they are trying to claim and some are vouching is farthest from the truth. I can swear on my son.
If there was a definition of evil and conscious evil. I see it now.
Just regrets at the state of my country 🇮🇳.

Arvind - you are angry and upset, its understandable!

Now that Mahindra have come forward to investigate. Yes, we have questions about their initial response. Please put all the negative stuff behind and give them the chance to look into this.

Sorry but your anger is putting a negative block on this.

What do you want?

Madhav making a full recovery is your first objective.

The next objective is to ensure this never happens again to anyone else. Let Mahindra investigate under some kind of neutral supervision. If they are liable - sue them for just compensation. The brand impact will fall in line accordingly.

[GTO]

+1 to Ajmat.

Originally Posted by arvindb4

If there was a definition of evil and conscious evil. I see it now.

I think the best solution would be for both parties to sit at the table with a neutral mediator and plan the investigation of the car. Since you are from Delhi and in touch with V.Narayan, I really cannot think of anyone more wise, intelligent & neutral to sit with you (of course, if V.Narayan has the time to spare).

It's okay if you want to kill Madhav's voice. Go ahead. Shut the thread

Relax, Arvind'bhai. Team-BHP has fought much bigger battles. This thread isn't going to be closed. Just ensure you speak to Blackwasp about back-to-back posting though (I believe he called you last week).

[srishiva]

If I or anyone else was in place of OP would we trust Mahindra ? I guess its easy to find fault with Arvind but the way forward would be for someone else to control this and ask Mahindra to help with investigation. Isn't that how its done ? Isn't there an authority to which complaint can be made which would then conduct the investigation ?
Even if Mahindra were to pass its judgement, would there be an appellate authority which could look into this ?

[Guite]

I don’t understand why there is constant harping to close this thread.

I can understand that arvindb4 is stone walling M&M attempts to investigate, because he does not trust them to make impartial investigation and so he would rather engage third party investigator. He has made it clear in his posts. Let’s give him the time to do what he feels is best in his interest. If there are time critical items in the ECU data, he is the one to lose. I am sure he knows what he is doing.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Now, we all know most of these Automotive companies are more like assemblers, getting a lot of equipment and technologies from other companies and in all fairness, they need to be given a chance. It will be beneficial for everyone to find out the root cause of the failure. No one else apart from the OEM will be able to crack the reasons. Further investigations can find if the fault was in the component or the assembly and point to some sort of reason.

Car manufacturers are also system integrator. Airbag and sensors could be from different vendors. Software linking both could be designed in-house or outsourced. Ultimately the car manufacturer is responsible.

[rocksterraghu]

Originally Posted by arvindb4

Go ahead. Shut the thread

Originally Posted by samaspire

Your arguments for closing the thread would have been understandable if they were made when arvindb4 was unable to post, but not now, when arvind is able to post again and Mahindra has also given it's side of the story.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Also please stop harping on closing this thread. This story is a long way away from closure.

I am going to use another post in this long thread to explain myself. I am not asking this thread to be shut down permanently. I am only suggesting we close it till we have evidence; I am suggesting we continue this discussion based on facts from the investigation. Nobody wants to shut down this discussion, at least not people like me who have been following this thread for weeks.

So far, it is only Arvind's word against M&M. We have no real proof. No one knows what happened. Then why criticise M&M or Arvind or Indian manufacturers or any manufacturer for that matter? Let us work on facts and scientific proof than emotions and sentiments. This thread takes a melodramatic turn every time someone wants logic to prevail. Isn't it the responsibility of investigating authorities and courts to decide what actually happened and to punish the guilty? I believe showering opinions on this forum without the actual knowledge of the case is like our media making judgements on behalf of courts. I understand what Arvind is going through or I try my best to. I understand his sleep patterns have been disturbed. I understand he is in deep pain. But that cannot translate into a thread that goes on without any concrete proof, especially on a forum with tens of thousands of members.

Anyway, I still see that mods are merging his back to back posts and there are only updates about who wrote what letter to whom and how there is no response. I appreciate that Team-BHP is a good forum to express and find resolution to such non-responsive auto makers but not sure for how long. This is like following a long court case on a forum. I know I have the option not to, but I am mighty curious to know if M&M have erred and I should advise my friends and family to use caution - the sole purpose of me being on this thread.