[GTO]

Guys, enough discussion about closing the thread or keeping it open. If you have any such requests, please use the 'report this post to a Moderator' functionality for the same.

Let's not go off-track anymore.

[dark.knight]

Hoping this isn't off-topic, but I'll try to keep it as relevant and future-oriented as possible.. also fully keeping in mind Mr.Arvind's sentiments and reason for opening this thread.

Keeping this incident in mind, would it be prudent if in future :

1) Insurance further covers failure of opening of airbags or erroneous functioning of safety electronic aids.

2) There are standards set for performance of electronic safety aids (SRS particularly), and the protocol in case of failure and subsequent investigation of these safety aids is also clearly mentioned by the manufacturer, combined with the insurance agencies.

3) Manufacturing defects usually being easy to find and fix when it is stuff like clutch, intake manifold, brakes, air-conditioning etc and replaced under warranty, with airbags and ABS becoming the norm, would it be wise in future to only approve of such implementation of SRS, ABS, only if accompanied by rigorous testing of made-for-sale automobiles, at random?

4) A strict electronics recording protocol be set and publicly be made aware of its existence so that in case of any incident.. the records of usage of primary restraint systems, actuation or not- of supplemental restrain systems and speed, GPS co-ordinates (in case of presence of GPS mapping) be automatically recorded into the memory chip of the car.

5) Lastly with Indian vehicles becoming more and more feature loaded and subsequently, more and more expensive, wouldn't it be wise for the manufacturers to ensure much more quality, error-free performance and seamless communication and hassle-free investigation and satisfactory resolution of complaints if their products do not match said standards?

Just a few points to chew on for all of us, in a land where the courts of law do not stand for much. I'm not drawing any conclusion or pointing to anything as far as this particular case is concerned. Sentiments are involved here of a nature that none of us can understand as well as Mr.Arvind and we should only let the company respond on that front since this case would effectively be a stalemate without that.

[arvindb4]

I have been in touch with the mods so that I follow the protocol here and don't overstep. I am always using my phone to read or post. My overstepping is not deliberate and I was in touch today to understand. However I had to end the call abruptly as I had to rush to attend Madhav. My next post, I assure shall be within norms.
All I want to say on the email from Mahindra, is that whatever they have stated is not true. I shall reply point by point.
I can understand that they are doing their bit because this platform of team bhp cannot be ignored.
Please give me time to reply.
I don't have a pr company to manage me.
I have nothing but the truth.
I wish that they were the evangelists.
I also know why they are doing it. Please bear with me.
Arvind

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by arvindb4

Please bear with me.

Please take care of your son. That's the first priority. Being a father myself, I can understand what you are going through. People are taking the gap in your posts as lies, but that's nonsense. Take your time, and I seriously hope you get the justice that's deserved.

[bhpfaninblr]

Originally Posted by arvindb4

All I want to say on the email from Mahindra, is that whatever they have stated is not true. I shall reply point by point.

Totally with Arvind, who does not have a PR agency to manage corporate communications. Mahindra has a huge PR team and maybe a VP, corporate communications to manage all this. This is an unequal contest

Lot of us are employed. When you complain against a superior in your own firm, the superior almost always wins and being savvy, they will always make the junior person look like he is at fault. This is savvy communication from M&M

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

M&M has been accused of cheating multiple dealers in the US. They’ve also been accused of stealing trade secrets. See link: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300243890.html

In the case of the spot weld coming off, M&M’s actions were blatantly dishonest. Repeated reminders to the chairman went unanswered and a crucial manufacturing flaw was just repaired without the consent of the owner.

In an earlier case from 2015: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-s...-deploy-2.html
Mr.Srinivas from M&M blames the accident on aquaplaning without inspecting the vehicle. Their email states that a detailed investigation will be done shortly but it’s been 3 years and no detailed investigation has been shared yet.

Excellent Points. In all 3 cases, Mahindra did not come across as truthful or honest. There is no reason to trust their PR engine and their letter, which seems like a corporate communications gimmick

[VKumar]

Dear Arvind


It doesn't matter what one thinks or says, I am with you at this point of time. I have read what Mahindra guys have stated and I am quite aware of mechanicals too, what they say is maybe correct at their point (let's agree that they are 100% true) but my point is different.



My Point:
I am a typical desi person (yes, the village guy) who doesn't belong to this elite educated category and all I understand is:
"If I have paid for something to work, it should work"


Everything else comes later for me, if I am inside a crashing car; the airbags should deploy and protect me if I have paid for them; and if they fail to deploy and me losing my life in the mishap, then there is no scope of any research or excuse for me.



The primary function of airbags is to deploy and protect the occupant, no matter how my car has collided (the car in question hasn't gone under a trailer putting entire impact on A pillars (Nirmal Saraf case, anyone?)). Anyone can come up and give 9999 excuses, if the airbags haven't deployed even at an impact this hard - this is an engineering failure. If these guys can't have airbags to deploy under very high sideways acceleration even without the sensors getting triggered, then they better mention it when they say that the car has six airbags.



If I have to live with this much number of 'condition apply' stars; then I am better off buying from the ones who have a lesser failure rate and not from Mahindra.

[Dani7766]

Airbags didn't deploy. Whatever Mahindra replies, what's their answer for airbags not deploying. For such an accident, I would expect it to deploy. I'm completely with the owner of the car. Period.

[mac187]

Two key takeaways for me.
1. Again our voices through Team-Bhp has prevailed.
2. Although delayed, we got Mahindra to respond.

That being said, we must remember that a father is grieving on his son health and its impact on his future. I am sure at some level we all can understand part of that emotion, hence we should look past the emotional responses from Arvind. Remember he has nothing to gain by proving Mahindra wrong, as it won't improve Madhav's health.

If this accident can help improve the safety in those thousands of XUV's plying on our roads, then Arvind would have done a great service to lots of people who will escape serious injury in future. As I type this I realize that I am expecting too much from Arvind, more so from Mahindra (as they will have to spend lots of Moolah to fix any potential gaps, if at all they consider it their responsibility). So may be its in our interest to provide useful and workable suggestion to both parties through Team-Bhp to highlight that customers expect safe cars.

[niranjanprabhu]

Originally Posted by GTO

Sanjoy Gupta (Head Customer Care, Automotive Division - Mahindra) sends in the following email. In my opinion, Mahindra is being fair. Both parties need to sit on the table and decide future course of action with reference to the investigation. This will also benefit other XUV500 owners who are understandably very concerned:

I don't see any hint towards answering the question on why the airbags didn't deploy. Let me know if I am wrong in my reading

[ajayclicks]

I must say, as an XUV owner who stretched his budget to purchase a W8- for the enhanced safety, I have a personal interest in this thread.

Having traveled 1000's of kms across this country, with and without my family, I am happy that the ABS, EBD, ESP etc. kicked in whenever they did. However, I share the same sentiments as others- I have paid for 6 airbags, and I expect them to function when the situation warrants- especially when my family is traveling with me.

Having said this, however, I am also perplexed as to the tone this entire thread has taken. The OP doesn't make a single post without bringing an emotional angle. There is nothing objective being contributed by the OP over the last many posts.

Many people expect Mahindra to answer why airbags did not deploy- how do we expect them to answer this question? Do they have access to the vehicle? Have they been allowed to conduct an investigation on what went wrong?

Mahindra can be expected to cheat and lie because there is precedent of they being sued in the US. Well, google the following keys words- Toyota sued, and sit back and see what google baba throws up- might make you think 10 times before buying a Toyota product.

There is only Mahindra bashing post after post- expected more objectivity from a forum that prides itself for its passion towards automobiles.

[mac187]

Looks like our posts crossed paths.

Originally Posted by ajayclicks

Having said this, however, I am also perplexed as to the tone this entire thread has taken. The OP doesn't make a single post without bringing an emotional angle. There is nothing objective being contributed by the OP over the last many posts.

I too felt the same initially but I think we all can understand the tough mental state OP is in.

Originally Posted by mac187

That being said, we must remember that a father is grieving on his son health and its impact on his future. I am sure at some level we all can understand part of that emotion, hence we should look past the emotional responses from Arvind. Remember he has nothing to gain by proving Mahindra wrong, as it won't improve Madhav's health.

Originally Posted by mac187

So may be its in our interest to provide useful and workable suggestion to both parties through Team-Bhp to highlight that customers expect safe cars.

We can start from here.

1. No of sensors in the front, i recall that there are four (?), and in the side to ensure timely airbag deployment. If the sensors are faulty is there a secondary mechanism (say intrusion of radiator) that triggers the airbags? What about curtain airbag in that case?
2. Folks mentioned that there was some software update for Airbags on XUV. Isn't it relevant that owners are informed of the same through any channel (SMS, Dealer phone call)? Even if the owners don't know the importance of the update, the service station can do the update when any vehicle is brought in for service. Isn't safety a paramount principle?
3. This is big one for Arvind and rightly so. How do you expect neutrality from the accused? Can we unequivocally say that Mahindra will conduct an independent research? Does OP hire an agency help? How should pay? I imagine this will not be cheap.

Honestly, I don't have answer to the technical and the ethical questions here. Maybe the collective minds can find a better solution.

[ajayclicks]

Originally Posted by mac187

Looks like our posts crossed paths.

Different people go through all sorts of struggles every single day, and have their own way of dealing with this- at times due to their personal traits, at times due to circumstances. One could have understood OP making emotional posts early on, however if you notice, there is an emotional angle being played in almost every post of his.

You ask- How do we expect neutrality from the accused? Well, how do we expect the accused to defend himself? Why do we expect the accused to follow "my way or the highway" approach? Is that how things work in real life?

Anybody's intention could be questioned- I could question the OP's intention, the OP could question mine.

How many air bag sensors- I think someone has purchased the service manual (saw a post in the niggles thread)- maybe this information can be dug out. Regarding software recall etc. I think there was a response to that question earlier.

As i mentioned in my post above, I have a personal interest in this, however, I do not see anything substantive being posted so far. Peace out.

[HKap]

Originally Posted by Hayek

A good move. While I have never been a Mahindra customer, I have friends who work there and have observed how they treat vendors, partners, bankers and employees. I believe they are an organisation that genuinely has an ethical culture, and tries to do their best - and would encourage Arvind to work with them to ensure that a thorough independent investigation is done and we get to the bottom of what caused this issue. Unnecessary suspicion will continue this standoff and not lead to a solution. I do hope that Madhav recovers soon and am glad to note he has been discharged from the hospital. Best wishes.

I second that. I've worked with M&M as a vendor (IT) and I can tell you the way they treat people is second to none. This culture flows from the absolute top to the security guard at the gate. Everybody is treated with nothing but respect and politeness. This particular vehicle might have some issues but nothing I've seen and experienced thus far suggests that M&M is unethical.

[akshay380]

Was only reading the posts so far but with the way the OP is trying to bring emotional angle in almost every post I feel I should pitch in.

Sorry to state but till now we have only heard accusations from you. And since this is a public forum, I believe I have every right to ask you for proof. May be you can submit the same to mods for verification instead of public post. When you go online and rant about something without proof, red flags WILL be raised. IMO Facebook was the right medium for you to shoot and scoot. If as per your own submission you are very busy attending your son, why start a one sided discussion in first place?

Disclaimer: I am an ex M&M employee working for competitor now

[ShaChan]

Dear all,

First of all, my sympathies with Mr. Arvind. Hope Madhav recovers soon.

I have always been a silent reader of Tbhp threads and decided to buy XUV5OO after reading through numerous threads here. I am a very happy and proud owner/driver of an XUV for 3 years now and I take keen interest in all the threads about Mahindra or the XUV. Having gone through this particular thread, I am compelled to write my thoughts here, even when am slightly scared at what the responses could be from an emotionally charged forum, something that is unusual in Tbhp.

1. Are all these opinions on why the airbag has not deployed mere speculations? Has no one really done an inspection of the vehicle or investigation on what led to the accident/ why the airbags didn't deploy?
   
2. What is the expected outcome of this thread? I understand that awareness is one, and am very thankful for the awareness that the airbag did not deploy when an accident occurred. So what's next? As an XUV owner, I am interested to know why it didn't deploy just like everyone else here. But, I request some actual facts and not opinions. Perhaps someone can help in getting there?
   
3. Has Mr Arvind reached out to the right legal / technical people and assessed the damage or cause of the accident and the airbag not getting deployed? I read through Mahindra's response but couldnt find the relevant actions taken from Mr Arvind's side. Considering that Mr Arvind is in a difficult space right now, maybe the others who seem to be so much in touch with what happened can throw some light on this?

When I zeroed in on buying the XUV, a lot of well wishers tried to dissuade me from buying an "Indian" car and asked me to go buy a Toyota / Honda. I am glad I did not change my mind and stuck to XUV. My whole family loves this vehicle, its true vfm and drives like a dream and feels like a tank. I don't do insane speeds and have always treated the vehicle well and I have felt that the vehicle loves me back and never regretted buying XUV. My experience with the Mahindra sales and service teams have been nothing but pleasant as well.

Having said that, at the cost of repeating myself, I am keen to know what is the expected outcome of Mr Arvind and his well wishers as I am not seeing anything other than a lot of Mahindra bashing here even without conducting a preliminary investigation.

Cheers,
Shalini
P.S. Not trying to silence anyone here. Genuinely trying to understand the technical reasons behind the accident, why the airbags did not deploy, and if they are connected.