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Old 28th August 2018, 00:11   #421
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
If these guys can't have airbags to deploy under very high sideways acceleration even without the sensors getting triggered, then they better mention it when they say that the car has six airbags.
Exactly. Whatever disclaimers the manufacturers put in the owner's manual about airbag non-deployment, these must be stated during the advertisements and the actual sales process.

Since the safety is foremost, the Team-BHP reviews also shall highlight these disclaimers as they will help the members in the decision making process. Along with the looks, the engine options, the interior fit & finish, the ride & the handling, FE, power and torque, the Team-BHP reviews shall include the number and placement of sensors.
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Old 28th August 2018, 08:22   #422
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Exactly. Whatever disclaimers the manufacturers put in the owner's manual about airbag non-deployment, these must be stated during the advertisements and the actual sales process.

Since the safety is foremost, the Team-BHP reviews also shall highlight these disclaimers as they will help the members in the decision making process. Along with the looks, the engine options, the interior fit & finish, the ride & the handling, FE, power and torque, the Team-BHP reviews shall include the number and placement of sensors.

Unfortunately safety in India is last. . Most of the Indians are bothered only for average and thats why some manufacturers keep on making tin cans and are very successful for decades. It is only when the Indian customers mentality changes, the car manufacturers will give robust and safe products. Until then keep arguing, fighting, etc.
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Old 28th August 2018, 09:41   #423
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
The OP doesn't make a single post without bringing an emotional angle.
Don't understand this sudden realisation that this thread is emotionally charged. It has always been so. That is what happens when a life is involved.

And to be surprised at encountering an emotional thread on tbhp is just being naive. Every ownership thread here is emotional. It's just dedicated to an inanimate object; and those are feel good emotions. The ones here are not, and that is what is making some uncomfortable.

Also, "...single post without bringing an emotional angle" is factually incorrect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaChan View Post
Has Mr Arvind reached out to the right legal / technical people and assessed the damage or cause of the accident and the airbag not getting deployed?

I read through Mahindra's response but couldnt find the relevant actions taken from Mr Arvind's side.
He has answered this question in one of his earlier posts. No point in looking for Arvind's actions in Mahindra's response.


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Do they have access to the vehicle? Have they been allowed to conduct an investigation on what went wrong?
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Having said that, at the cost of repeating myself, I am keen to know what is the expected outcome of Mr Arvind and his well wishers as I am not seeing anything other than a lot of Mahindra bashing here even without conducting a preliminary investigation.
This is where the bone of contention is - access to the vehicle for investigation. The OP does not trust Mahindra to do a bias free investigation and Mahindra is not ready to share all the information. Things can only move forward when they sit and talk. So... patience.
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Old 28th August 2018, 10:12   #424
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Don't understand this sudden realisation that this thread is emotionally charged.
There is no sudden realization. This is what I had posted:

"Having said this, however, I am also perplexed as to the tone this entire thread has taken. The OP doesn't make a single post without bringing an emotional angle. There is nothing objective being contributed by the OP over the last many posts."

I do not have to go about explaining why this thread is becoming a case of more emotional drama and less substance, and similarly anyone does not have to explain why it is not so. It is to each one of us how to perceive the tone of this particular thread.

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Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Things can only move forward when they sit and talk. So... patience.
Will that happen? And till then, will there more be shoot and scoot posts? In anycase, I do not have any personal interest in this thread besides being an XUV owner. My best wishes to Arvind in whatever course of action he chooses to pursue.

Last edited by ajayclicks : 28th August 2018 at 10:25. Reason: Added the word go in go about explaining
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Old 28th August 2018, 10:41   #425
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
Dear Arvind
Everything else comes later for me, if I am inside a crashing car; the airbags should deploy and protect me if I have paid for them; and if they fail to deploy and me losing my life in the mishap, then there is no scope of any research or excuse for me.
100% correct. The airbags should have deployed in this case where the occupant has suffered frontal cortex damage. That is right at the forehead and an airbag could have saved his life. Some Mahindra fanboys are even speculating that the injury to the forehead is from the roof caving in. Love for your own car cannot make you forgive the sins of Mahindra in this case.

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Originally Posted by Dani7766 View Post
I'm completely with the owner of the car. Period.
The owner is right in this case. If the airbag does not deploy with the driver belted and in case of a forehead injury, it is inexcusable. An engineering failure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by niranjanprabhu View Post
I don't see any hint towards answering the question on why the airbags didn't deploy. Let me know if I am wrong in my reading
You are right. They don't answer the question of why airbags did not deploy. One can argue that they cannot ascertain the reason till they get hold of the car. How can Arvind trust a manufacturer whose components are engineered that they do not work as desired? What if evidence is tampered?
Arvind is an individual. Mahindra is a corporation. Mahindra must take Arvind into confidence and do a 3rd party investigation. If they are at fault, they must bear Madhav's expenses and replace with a brand new XUV. Anand Mahindra has not bothered to tweet about this engineering failure in his premium vehicle. Disgusting from Mahindra!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
Having said this, however, I am also perplexed as to the tone this entire thread has taken. The OP doesn't make a single post without bringing an emotional angle. There is nothing objective being contributed by the OP over the last many posts.
With son in hospital with frontal cortex damage in a clear case where airbags should have deployed, and mounting financial burden and unco-operative manufacturer, one cannot expect him to post rationally because one made a 'perceived rational' decision to buy a W8 stretching one's budget. Before pointing fingers at the OP, request each one to point finger at oneself and ask if he/she is being rational or being an emotional supporter of own vehicle



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
Mahindra can be expected to cheat and lie
Totally agree with you on Mahindra examples in team-bhp of multiple cases of airbags failing to deploy, spot welding issues and the case in the US that one of the posters highlighted causing damage to the Indian MNC reputation. Given all this, the bashing that Mahindra is receiving on the forum is well deserved


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaChan View Post
Are all these opinions on why the airbag has not deployed mere speculations? Has no one really done an inspection of the vehicle or investigation on what led to the accident/ why the airbags didn't deploy?
The speculation of a group of people is that this is a text book case of airbags not having to deploy as the front airbag sensors located at the corners did not get impacted. They also believe that the side airbags did not deploy because the side sensor did not get impacted.
The other group of people including the original poster, myself and others believe this is a case of poor engineering and a case where airbags did not deploy when they had to. The other posts on team-bhp on Mahindra XUV issues and the relatively larger percentage of such cases posted on the Internet (we cannot count every vehicle as it is a 'census'), taking it to be the best possible sample again points to poor reliability and engineering issues with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by ShaChan View Post
What is the expected outcome of this thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
I do not have to about explaining why this thread is becoming a case of more emotional drama and less substance, and similarly anyone does not have to explain why it is not so. It is to each one of us how to perceive the tone of this particular thread.
No thread has a desired outcome attached to it. I generally ignore the threads that I don't like or not interested in vs. OP bashing in a case where the manufacturer is at fault

If the emotional elements on a particular thread were causing me to become very emotional about my purchase decision, I would have stayed off that thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Don't understand this sudden realisation that this thread is emotionally charged. It has always been so. That is what happens when a life is involved.
Well said Sir!

Last edited by bhpfaninblr : 28th August 2018 at 10:54.
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Old 28th August 2018, 10:43   #426
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My sympathies are completely with Arvind. And heartfelt prayers and best wishes for Madhav. Hope Madhav recovers soon.

The airbags should have deployed in such a severe crash, period.

Now since they didn't, it's a apt to look out for root cause. But we have a stalemate here, almost. While we are in deadlock type situation, I was wondering if we know the whereabouts of CO-passenger with Madhav during the incident? Hoping that the co-passenger would be in a better condition than Madhav to help the cause for Arvind. Reconstructing the sequence, situation may help at least fix the direction to break the deadlock.

And - Let Mahindra be bashed, no worries at all. It's anyone's guess that they will do their part as they deem fit. If at all anything - for one, I just want to see Madhav back in his usual self and second - unearthing of root cause that will help know my own vehicle in better light for being on-par or poorer than other options I had/ will have.

This thread is testament for tbhp standing in for a cause and no visible bias to either party.
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Old 28th August 2018, 11:02   #427
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr View Post

Before pointing fingers at the OP, request each one to point finger at oneself and ask if he/she is being rational or being an emotional supporter of own vehicle


If the emotional elements on this thread is causing me to become very emotional about my purchase decision, I would have stayed off this thread
When I purchased my XUV, I read many ownership threads here, the review threads and the niggles thread that was into a few hundred pages at that point. There was nothing emotional about my purchase decision making, and I have nothing personal going on for or against the XUV or Mahindra. The last 2.5 years and 40K kms have served me well, and at the right time, it will be replaced with a vehicle that will be relevant to my need then.

Maybe some people are unduly emotional about a petrol KUV engine, however, I would prefer not to comment on others.

As I have mentioned, my family travels in the damn car, and I would be the happiest if this incident leads to enhanced safety for rest of the current and future XUV owners.

However, I do feel that there is a pity party going on at the moment, and having no desire to partake in that, and having nothing meaningful to contribute to this thread, it is best that I take a break/ sit on bench.
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Old 28th August 2018, 12:04   #428
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

My prayers with Madhav for his fast recovery. Can understand the pain and anguish Arvind and family would be going through.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
While we are in deadlock type situation, I was wondering if we know the whereabouts of CO-passenger with Madhav during the incident? Hoping that the co-passenger would be in a better condition than Madhav to help the cause for Arvind. Reconstructing the sequence, situation may help at least fix the direction to break the deadlock.

This thread is testament for tbhp standing in for a cause and no visible bias to either party.
Like Abirnale rightly noted, reconstruction of the sequence seems to be one way to understand what actually happened. And for this the co-passenger is required. Now there could be multiple reasons why the co-passenger is not in picture, atleast here in this forum. But thats not helping much at our end and we are losing ourselves in speculations.

So considering the way this thread has been progressing and the amount of support and suggestions coming in from different quarters, will it not be possible for a senior TBhp member (someone in close proximity of where the car is parked) to have a look at the vehicle personally and if possible even meet the co-passenger. Since the car is parked at OP's property right now, would there be any legal issues or challenges for such a check. Maybe get some more photos too.This might help us all to get a clearer picture and provide technical inputs on why airbags did not deploy.

This could be good case study for Team BHP and considering Team BHP is respected by all Indian car manufacturers, any findings might also be valued and taken into account for this investigation as well as any future engineering solutions.

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Old 28th August 2018, 12:59   #429
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr View Post
How can Arvind trust a manufacturer whose components are engineered that they do not work as desired? What if evidence is tampered?
Assuming your ascertion to be true (which itself has not been proven), what do you, any other member here, or OP for the matter, propose is the best course of action going forward?

Until someone (independent third party, M&M or any qualified person) conclusively establishes why those airbags didn't deploy, pretty much everything being posted here is heresay, or at best someone's opinion, which shouldn't be treated as a conclusion or a fact for that matter.

However remote the possibility (and all of us must be open minded to at least consider this), it is possible that Arvind's son is just really really really unlucky and was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Bad things things happen even when no one is at fault.
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Old 28th August 2018, 13:43   #430
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
Will that happen? And till then, will there more be shoot and scoot posts?

You seem to be concerned about the scoot and shoot posts. Remember, it is the same series of shoot and scoot posts that managed to obtain a response from the Mahindra Team. Imagine if there was only a few responses and limited views this thread had, Mahindra would have never bothered to send an email/ or response to the OP. If I look at the number of views this thread had as I type, it is over 300,000 views with 428 responses.

The OP does not trust Mahindra and that is the reason he has not given access to the latter to his vehicle (he has made it clear in his earlier posts).

As people mentioned here, things can only move forward when they sit and talk in presence of a neutral third party. However, do we have a neutral trustworthy third party?

Letís take US as an example. In the US, it is the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) that investigate these kind of failures & not the manufacturer/s.

An example given in the below URL:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1GT0HD

Pardon my ignorance; do we have something similar to NHTSA in India?

If not, what is the probability of Mahindra coming out with root cause/s of the airbag failure in this particular incident & admitting it even if the OP were to give them access to his car? I would say ZERO - as that would severely affect the brand & the brand perception (may be some recalls etc.) in public and in turn would have an impact on the future XUV sales.

If Mahindra were to do an independent investigation, I guess Itís like a PWD contractor is made responsible for doing the RCA of an incident where a bridge or building he built was collapsed. How much can you trust his report or findings?
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Old 28th August 2018, 13:49   #431
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Can we refrain from insinuating about OP's intent? The least we can do is to show some empathy. I see some very strong words being thrown around - "pity party, emotional drama". I agree that both sides of the story need to be heard. But we can do that without resorting to personal attacks. Why dont we wait for Mr. Arvind to post his rebuttal?
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Old 28th August 2018, 14:10   #432
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
Bad things things happen even when no one is at fault.
Sorry. Does this mean that we can act ignorant so that such an event can happen to the next person and call it another bad thing?

Don't we want to improve? Most of us want, especially a man want. I'm damn sure even Mahindra wants to, albeit secretly. Consumer rights are not as strong in our country or else Arvind or anybody need not have pleaded support. He is singled out, which is not the case with a manufacturer, be it any, who has all the arsenal up their sleeve. Let our voice be the cause for a better safety restraint, even if it gets improved secretly, rather than anyone sleeping over it due to lack of noise.

Last edited by thoma : 28th August 2018 at 14:11.
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Old 28th August 2018, 14:33   #433
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

My prayers are with @arvindb4 and his family. I pray for a complete recovery for Madhav.

The pictures are pretty bad and as a common man, or a non expert, I would expect the airbags to have deployed in this scenario. If I am asked to guess I would say the airbags malfunctioned, my opinion of course.

I am in full support of @arvindb4 and the emotions he's going through. And if team-bhp takes up some initiative as an outcome of this thread I am all for it.

That said I see too much of Mahindra bashing, multiple posts mentioning the same thing, which is neither adding value to the thread nor of any help to @arvindb4.

I have not seen any content for quite sometime except Mahindra's letter to team-bhp & @arvindb4 's response to that.
SDP tried to provide some insight by quoting a person with some knowledge about the system but it was not taken kindly.

I was refraining from posting as I had no valuable input for the thread, except support for @arvindb4 but here we go.

I hope we do get genuine answers to this situation and why the airbags did not deploy and if its the same case with other manufacturers also. I drive a Zest and have felt secure in the fact that it has two airbags. If this holds for most manufacturers then that changes a lot and definitely my future buying choices.

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Old 28th August 2018, 14:46   #434
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Sorry. Does this mean that we can act ignorant so that such an event can happen to the next person and call it another bad thing?

Don't we want to improve? Most of us want, especially a man want. I'm damn sure even Mahindra wants to, albeit secretly. Consumer rights are not as strong in our country or else Arvind or anybody need not have pleaded support. He is singled out, which is not the case with a manufacturer, be it any, who has all the arsenal up their sleeve. Let our voice be the cause for a better safety restraint, even if it gets improved secretly, rather than anyone sleeping over it due to lack of noise.
My sincere apologies if I did, but I don't recall preaching ignorance or acting ignorant. On the contrary I recall, asking members to suggest the best course of action going forward (my apologies for not being able to come up with a suggestion myself).

Like you, I'm all for improvement. Prior to which ofcourse you'll need a proper analysis of what's wrong. And by analysis, I obviously don't mean coming to conclusions based on Google searches.

Also, objectivity and emotion don't go hand in hand. Emotion by very definition is the opposite of objectivity. So if we were to find a solution, it would probably be best to keep emotion out of it. Apart form OP (who has mitigating circumstances), other members should ideally be unemotional while posting.

Last edited by Jeevith : 28th August 2018 at 14:58. Reason: Typos and last paragraph
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Old 28th August 2018, 15:19   #435
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
My sincere apologies if I did, but I don't recall preaching ignorance or acting ignorant. On the contrary I recall, asking members to suggest the best course of action going forward (my apologies for not being able to come up with a suggestion myself).

Also, objectivity and emotion don't go hand in hand. Emotion by very definition is the opposite of objectivity. So if we were to find a solution, it would probably be best to keep emotion out of it. Apart form OP (who has mitigating circumstances), other members should ideally be unemotional while posting.
Everybody can state their view without being apologetic. We are a mixed forum, as is a society, we are not only of technical experts, but enthusiasts who have emotions towards anything on wheels.

The best course of action as a forum is to stay behind a member, who is prima facia deprived of a safety net for which he has paid (through the nose or not), and wants to get to the bottom of things impartially (by not entrusting the manufacturer with a probe), and does not want another causality in the same circumstance. Man is made of emotions, and definitely emotions can be made to good use for any objective goal.

As for me, the manufacturer definitely need to know the pinch, and not brush it aside as an 'unlucky' or 'bad thing' which is what I feel more non-objective, be it Ford (k-truss issue) or Mahindra (this one) or Skoda (Harish's) or any.

Last edited by thoma : 28th August 2018 at 15:24.
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