Team-BHP > Road Safety


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th September 2018, 11:12   #496
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,033
Thanked: 3,266 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Where exactly are those airbag sensors located? Can any XUV owner or other knowledgeable person post a pic of the front of the XUV and mark the spots where the sensors are?

Also I believe it would be a good idea to have the manufacturers visually identify the locations of the airbag sensors by painting some marking at those locations. It would be much easier to tell if the hit took place at a place that shoukd have triggered the airbags.
For the nth time, it does not depend on the location of the sensor else you would need to have sensors all over the car. It depends on how they are tuned and the deployment algorithm.

Read this to understand more

https://www.azosensors.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=40

Last edited by extreme_torque : 20th September 2018 at 11:32.
extreme_torque is online now   (20) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 11:18   #497
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 1,414
Thanked: 2,550 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesht_ripps View Post
---------- message ---------
From: puneet sushil <XXXXXX@gmail.com>
Date: Tue 18 Sep, 2018, 1:55 PM
Subject: Non Deployment of Airbags
To: <nair.mohan@mahindra.com>

...SNIP...

Thank you
Hypothetical Response from M&M -

Dear Mr. Puneet,

1. Our sincere regrets for the accident. The Fortuner is indeed a very unsafe vehicle and you are lucky that our well-engineered and robust SUV, as you yourself conceded in point 10, has very well saved the lives of all occupants on boards. Your minor injuries will heal soon.

2. The Fortuner is such a badly designed vehicle that rear ending one, even at a good collision speed and with high rate of deceleration, doesn't result in triggering our extremely well-protected airbag sensors. You also do realise that replacing airbags is very expensive.

3. Rest assured that our Mahindra Service centres and technicians are so well equipped and trained that your vehicle will be restored back to better than even factory standards, and you are effectively getting back a practically new vehicle!

4. However, if you disagree with our point of view, we will need to take your vehicle away to an undisclosed location, for an independent investigation to take place, which might take an unpredictable amount of time, and will leave you without a replacement vehicle. By the way, you may want to consider some of our new age offerings and we can send a salesman to your home today!

Sincerely,
MN/AM


Fit case for a Class Action suit against this company. Enough said!

Last edited by roy_libran : 20th September 2018 at 11:30.
roy_libran is online now   (30) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 11:21   #498
BHPian
 
Engine_Roars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 348
Thanked: 1,456 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Safety features like air bags can not come with * sign on them. If a vehicle is involved in a reasonably major accident, occupants should be able to rely on air bags deployment irrespective of angle of impact.

How silly is it to expect an accident to happen in a certain way & angle to make use of safety features. I am better off without airbags if this is how it works, at least I will drive safe knowing that I do not have any airbags to rely on.
Engine_Roars is online now   (18) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 13:33   #499
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 474
Thanked: 1,956 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

One odd incident where the airbags did not deploy may be attributed to say, sensors not activating, seatbelts, or the vehicle was a 'lemon' etc. But there have been a few instances now involving the XUV 5OO where the airbags have not deployed resulting in serious injuries.

The least Mahindra can do is to may be distribute, to all owners, a small pamphlet with instructions and illustrations on how to manoeuvre the vehicle just before an accident so that the necessary airbag sensors can be triggered. You know, the correct angle, speed, etc. A video tutorial would be even better on 'How to safely hit another object (moving or non-moving) with your XUV5OO', which will teach you the intricacies of positive airbag (front and curtain) deployment. Better still they can conduct classes to teach you how to align your vehicle perfectly before an accident when you buy a vehicle from them.

The pamphlet/video/training class will come with a DISCLAIMER - PLEASE NOTE, THE ACTIONS MENTIONED IN THIS PAMPHLET/VIDEO WILL ONLY TRIGGER THE AIRBAGS PROVIDED AT LEAST 10 SECONDS IS MADE AVAILABLE BEFORE THE ACCIDENT SO AS TO CORRECTLY ALIGN YOUR VEHICLE TO THE OBJECT YOU INTEND TO HIT.
M&M SHALL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF THE ABOVE CONDITION IS NOT MET.

Infact, why restrict this to only Mahindra owners. Every person on the road should be taught how to hit a Mahindra car from the front and the sides, so as to trigger its airbags. Because it is not always the fault of the Mahindra, you see.

Last edited by SCORPION : 20th September 2018 at 13:39. Reason: Added the last part.
SCORPION is offline   (19) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 13:51   #500
Senior - BHPian
 
samaspire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Manipal / Udupi
Posts: 1,564
Thanked: 4,414 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Since the army guy has mentioned applying brakes before impact, it is possible that the speed of the vehicle at the time of impact could have been under the threshold for airbag deployment. Just guessing.

Last edited by samaspire : 20th September 2018 at 13:54.
samaspire is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 14:13   #501
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vijayawada-AP
Posts: 287
Thanked: 127 Times
Default

In the backdrop of the incidents mentioned in this thread, I'll mention an incident that happened while my father was driving his Micra XV CVT in 2015.

He was around 70 years and this happened in a busy street in Vijayawada. He generally doesn't wear seat belts himself. The road is a double lane and has a divider which is smaller in size. But where there are street light poles, its concrete base is some what bigger in width than the divider width.

When he was driving between 20 to 30 kmph, a 2 wheeler tried to cross from the left side of the car and sensing some obstruction ahead, he immediately turned right after crossing. In order to avoid this person, my father turned the steering towards right and hit the divider at the base of the pole. The front right wheel at an angle and the bumper corner hit the base of the pole.

Now, as per the images below, there is not much damage to the bumper, there is a slight mark on the alloy wheel. He came back driving to home which is a km away from the spot. But, both the front airbags got deployed as can be seen from the images.

Now the speed is less here, its not a frontal collision. Yet, both the air bags got deployed and as a result the windscreen got cracked because of the passenger airbag.

Repair cost was close to 90K, was told. But got covered in insurance, though it took nearly a month to get the vehicle back.

Now what can be inferred from this incident. I was on the verge of considering an XUV500 and now need to change my decision.
Attached Thumbnails
XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1537432886929.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1537432902873.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1537432917035.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1537432979197.jpg  

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-1537432991125.jpg  


Last edited by vvrchandra : 20th September 2018 at 14:42.
vvrchandra is offline   (17) Thanks
Old 20th September 2018, 14:42   #502
BHPian
 
lapis_lazuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 572
Thanked: 1,194 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

If the dyno measures 10 horses less than the 475BHP published, or 5 newton meter less than the 300 published, while we may never ever use even half of this without being nervous, we cry hoarse how the manufacturer cheated us. For a number, HARDLY USED and inconsequential.

If the airbag doesnt deploy we still cry hoarse, how the manufacturer was right but the owner, incapable of commanding the vehicle properly: that bit, which would perhaps be used ONCE in the vehicles USEFUL lifecycle. And we are rational, elite, educated...whatever. I think we are just about literate.

Anyway, ALL passenger vehicles in India are governed by these (AIS) ARAI standards:

https://araiindia.com/pdf/List_ARAI_...ne%202009).pdf

Of which, protection of passengers, restraint systems and collision OF WHATEVER TYPE, straight, offset, lateral, ... is governed by these:

https://araiindia.com/hmr/Control/AI...~PMAIS-098.pdf
and
https://araiindia.com/hmr/Control/AI...~PMAIS-099.pdf
and
https://araiindia.com/hmr/Control/AI...1PMAIS_023.pdf
and
https://araiindia.com/hmr/Control/AI...nd_AIS_072.pdf

Maybe a few others, here and there, in fragments.

As you can see, the overall safety is ANY one or a combination of the many sub tests and THEM "passing" UNCONDITIONALLY during the eventuality. THIS is to a great extent a function of the algorithm and the designers skill and experience at visualizing the same combinations. While sounding impossible, there is something called "best practices". Good implementations and shoddy implementations. Rules, and loopholes....

ARAI tests are done on SINGULAR events and there is no provision for combo case testing! Thats exactly where:

1) Experience
2) R&D spend
3) ETHICS

come into picture.

This of course also means, it is possible to "meet" criteria and merely passing this test; well, you pass and start selling. With flying colours? Nope..some do, however!

<end of reasonably informed rant>

Last edited by navin : 20th September 2018 at 15:22. Reason: formatting.
lapis_lazuli is offline   (23) Thanks
Old 21st September 2018, 01:08   #503
BHPian
 
VKumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dehradun
Posts: 691
Thanked: 4,274 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Having just read about the crash that the Army officer had, I am kind of shocked. Initially I thought that maybe the front simply crumpled and nothing else; then I realized that even the impact beam is also bent - manufacturers at times claim that this is the point where airbag sensors are located.



At times, quoting ourselves looks like the only option:

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post

"If I have paid for something to work, it should work"

Everything else comes later for me, if I am inside a crashing car; the airbags should deploy and protect me if I have paid for them; and if they fail to deploy and me losing my life in the mishap, then there is no scope of any research or excuse for me.

If I have to live with this much number of 'condition apply' stars; then I am better off buying from the ones who have a lesser failure rate and not from Mahindra.
Going by the fact that we have at least 3 XUV examples right on this forum itself where the car got into a major crash but the airbags did not deploy; I hope there is no point of any six sigma calculations here. One fine day a guy was arguing with me over why Fortuner costs so much more than Hexa or XUV and I simply put it up in just one line:
"It is costlier because the components used to build it are the costlier ones"

There goes Mahindra out of all my consideration lists, today itself I told a friend to look at Marazzo top end as he was stretching to Hexa XM trim, just wrote him another message and told him to stick to Hexa itself.



Coming to this sensor location theory:
As already mentioned by @extreme_torque; nth times it has been told and if this theory is actually true then there should be a hundred sensors at least in the car; or manufacturer should tell that how should one crash. I have my point very clearly stated; "if I have paid for them to work, they should work". Airbags are a life saving component and I won't prefer to be in a car which is made up of low cost or unproven components, at least when it comes to the point where my life is on the stake.



That said, the statement that Mahindra should write in their car's brochure is:
"Always remember, the airbags are supplied by the lowest bidder"
VKumar is online now   (11) Thanks
Old 21st September 2018, 02:32   #504
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,235
Thanked: 1,390 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

I'm waiting for another report from an unknown expert giving his justification on why the airbags didn't deploy in this new case.

And of course another email from M&M justifying the incident basis these pictures, while also saying that a detailed investigation is underway. The detailed investigation report shall of course never be made public.

Not touching this brand. Keep up the awesome work M&M!
Lalvaz is offline   (11) Thanks
Old 21st September 2018, 22:33   #505
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 192
Thanked: 183 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Went through the entire thread. In fact, read it in bits & pieces earlier but for continuity going through it sequentially help in objectively understand it (if that can be allowed in this thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The rolling over comment is speculative, as is the entire premise of this thread, that the vehicle as well as the manufacturer are at fault. It would certainly help many in this country if a professional, unbiased, forensic investigation of mechanical &/or safety systems failure in the vehicle reveals the actual facts - that would help nail the real culprit. Who knows, maybe a service technician removed the fuses/relays of the airbag circuit some time in the past, or a rat chewed up the wires.
Quite aptly sums up the thread . Full of speculations. The objectivity by a few when tried seemed to be stonewalled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sanjoy Gupta (Head Customer Care, Automotive Division - Mahindra) sends in the following email. In my opinion, Mahindra is being fair. Both parties need to sit on the table and decide future course of action with reference to the investigation. This will also benefit other XUV500 owners who are understandably very concerned:
Absolotely. Bang on. But do we see that happening here? On the other hand, the flow of the thread seems to be, may be misguiding OP and may end up doing him more harm than help

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesht_ripps View Post

---------- message ---------
From: puneet sushil <XXXXXX@gmail.com>
...
Dear Mohan
...
...But unfortunately my veh banged into the Fortuner and my vehicle's frontal portion got damaged badly...check photos attached.
5. To my horror, none of the air bags got deployed in spite of the fact that all four of us were with our seat belts ON, servicing of the car done in Aug 2018 at authorized service center and no bull bars attached to the vehicle's front. All three passengers got severe muscle pulls and I got a head injury plus my eyelid got a cut which later had to be lacerated.
....

6. The vehicle had claimed to have 6 airbags but when it was required during such a mishap. None of it helped.

....

9. My friends and well-wishers had asked me to file a legal suit against the company as the safety features went malfunctioning which could have claimed Ur life. But I thought IL first write to the customer care which I did on 16 Sep 18 (Inderpreet Singh, Chandigarh) and take their opinion and their reply on the malfunctioning before further processing the case legally for compensation.
10. The present car with severe safety malfunctioning be replaced immediately and I Should be provided with a brand new car and adequate compensation be given to me in this aspect by the company which has a name and reputation of providing the best SUVs in India.

---------- message ---------
Now, this needs to be pursued. Clear cut, step by step, forthright citations of the sequence of events, crash, precautions taken, and expectations demanded from Mahindra clearly articulated. Logically & objectively put up to Mahindras in no uncertain terms. Please keep us informed on the progress and our best wishes are with your friend.

PS: 1,20,000 kms service is approaching for my XUV and I made a mental note to get checked whether the software update for side curtains (as mentioned in the thread) has been done on my XUV or not.
TheIndian is offline   (11) Thanks
Old 23rd September 2018, 13:07   #506
BHPian
 
cbatrody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 136
Thanked: 416 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvrchandra View Post
I was on the verge of considering an XUV500 and now need to change my decision.
Definitely! These incidents should be an eye opener for anyone who wants to buy an XUV thinking that it is a safer car. Please refrain, tomorrow this could be one of you!

Out of curiosity just tried to Google - "mahindra xuv 500 airbag deployed in an accident" to find out if there were any instances of airbag deployment that saved the occupants in an XUV.

The results below:

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-capture.jpg


Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?
cbatrody is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 23rd September 2018, 13:30   #507
Team-BHP Support
 
SmartCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 5,136
Thanked: 27,631 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?
Do a "Google Images" search for -

XUV 500 accident
XUV500 accident

I found one!

Name:  sp xuv accident.jpg
Views: 2975
Size:  217.3 KB
SmartCat is online now   (8) Thanks
Old 23rd September 2018, 20:11   #508
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 192
Thanked: 183 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Out of curiosity just tried to Google - "mahindra xuv 500 airbag deployed in an accident" to find out if there were any instances of airbag deployment that saved the occupants in an XUV.

The results below:

Attachment 1801314




Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?
You are kidding, aren't you? Had you given even a cursory look at the links you posted, you would have realised that all of them are pertaining to one incidence (this thread incidence) by different websites

Not to say that there are no other such incidences for XUV. But heuristically speaking, when you google search something, google does it's job ! Like below

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-airbag1.jpg

A mere search of "airbags didn't deploy" without any brand name. Check which brands Google thrown in the results above

Now going by your logic, try to search "Mercedes airbags didn't deploy", you'll get a list there as well, like below.

XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-airbag2.jpg

So, what is the conclusion? <wink>

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post

Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?
A sweeping blind statement. Avoidable. Won't take any of us anywhere.
TheIndian is offline   (15) Thanks
Old 23rd September 2018, 23:41   #509
BHPian
 
Guite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Noida, NCR
Posts: 586
Thanked: 284 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

The sarcasm in few of the posts above are hilarious.

So we now want manufacturer to mark location of crash sensors which trigger airbag deployment? So that we can aim to hit one of few sensors onto a target in a split second that it takes for an accident to happen? That’s simply impossible. We are just providing alibi to manufacturer. “So you got a fully deformed front bumper and engine bay due to point impact onto a lamp post? Sorry, the point of impact is not on a sensor. Go find another scapegoat.”
Guite is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 24th September 2018, 00:07   #510
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 192
Thanked: 183 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
The sarcasm in few of the posts above are hilarious.

So we now want manufacturer to mark location of crash sensors which trigger airbag deployment? So that we can aim to hit one of few sensors onto a target in a split second that it takes for an accident to happen? That’s simply impossible. We are just providing alibi to manufacturer. “So you got a fully deformed front bumper and engine bay due to point impact onto a lamp post? Sorry, the point of impact is not on a sensor. Go find another scapegoat.”



Does this refer to a host of manufacturers (if not all) for whom this is standard design practice?

Refer to SDP post here.... https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post4442403 (XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured))

PS: And BTW, what was this? ---->> https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post4442405 (XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured))
And this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
For the nth time, it does not depend on the location of the sensor else you would need to have sensors all over the car. It depends on how they are tuned and the deployment algorithm.

Read this to understand more

https://www.azosensors.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=40

Last edited by TheIndian : 24th September 2018 at 00:12.
TheIndian is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks