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Old 24th September 2018, 00:23   #511
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Definitely! These incidents should be an eye opener for anyone who wants to buy an XUV thinking that it is a safer car. Please refrain, tomorrow this could be one of you!

Out of curiosity just tried to Google - "mahindra xuv 500 airbag deployed in an accident" to find out if there were any instances of airbag deployment that saved the occupants in an XUV.

The results below:

Attachment 1801314


Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?


Since we're revisiting already discussed issues, I'm also going to just recycle some old posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
The Mahindra statement talks about 7000 airbags consumed at dealerships. That means keeping aside the totaled vehicles (which would go to scrap mostly), there have been 7000 XUVs in which the airbags did deploy and were replaced as part of repairs. No idea how many XUVs have been in severe accidents and how many were totaled, but given that the total number of XUVs is about 2.19 lakh, isn't the 7000 number large enough to consider before members come to any sort of the conclusions about the safety of the XUV in general and probability of airbag deployment in particular?
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Old 24th September 2018, 11:59   #512
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by TheIndian View Post
You are kidding, aren't you? Had you given even a cursory look at the links you posted, you would have realised that all of them are pertaining to one incidence (this thread incidence) by different websites
Am I kidding? definitely not.

First of all, before trying to justify the manufacturer tooth and nail, it would've been better had you given a cursory look at what I was searching for. ("Mahindra xuv500 airbags deployed in an accident"). As I mentioned, I was curious if at all Google would throw out any matching results for the search criteria that I was looking for. As anticipated, the results were not surprising as I couldn't find a single instance where the airbags in an XUV500 did save someone's life until 'smartcat' posted one picture in the next post (#507).


Please do a Google search yourself on "mahindra xuv500 airbags deployed in an accident" & search again replacing Mahindra XUV500 with Mercedes Benz.


The image search given below speak for themselves.


XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-mahindra.jpg



XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)-mercedes.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIndian View Post
So, what is the conclusion?
Conclusion is: the product (airbags in XUV500) is spurious, not well designed, may be with an improper algorithm, have cheap sensors or in layman's terms - half cooked, doesn't serve the purpose that it is designed for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIndian View Post
A sweeping blind statement. Avoidable. Won't take any of us anywhere.
Really? You blindly justifying the product ignoring the multiple glaring failures (2 severe accidents reported in this thread & one more equally severe in an old thread) would take us somewhere?
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Old 24th September 2018, 16:52   #513
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Conclusion is: the product (airbags in XUV500) is spurious, not well designed, may be with an improper algorithm, have cheap sensors or in layman's terms - half cooked, doesn't serve the purpose that it is designed for.


Really? You blindly justifying the product ignoring the multiple glaring failures (2 severe accidents reported in this thread & one more equally severe in an old thread) would take us somewhere?
@cbatrody. Your conclusion may actually turnout out to be correct (jury is still not out IMHO).

However, here are the flaws in YOUR assessment:

Your methodology presumes that ALL instances of airbag deployment (or non-deployment) are picked up by Google. Google merely uses crawlers that pick up other websites based on key words such as "airbags" and "deploy" (which is why even your search for "deployed" without the word "not" still picks up instances of images where air bags did not deploy).

Now that being the case, how likely is there going to be a website reporting an instance of airbag deployment (unless the airbags DIDN'T deploy). In other words an article on a website is more likely going to use the words "airbag" and "deploy" only in instances where the airbags didn't deploy. If you are looking for images/instances of airbag deployment, search only the phrase "XUV 500 accident" and you're probably going to find a higher success rate than your search phrase (though this will also not be an accurate representation of how many instances are there of air bag deployment as not all instances even get reported).

Also, your comparative search (i.e., Mercedes) was for a manufacturer and not a specific car model. Try searching for the phase "toyota etios airbags deployed in an accident" or any other specific car model (and not a manufacturer), too see the point the rationalists are trying to make. And if you absolutely must use this method to compare cars (despite its obvious flaws), compare a car that sells in as many numbers as the XUV.

Lastly, the person you were responding to wasn't defending Mahindra, but IMHO was pointing out the folly of such short sighted methods of coming to conclusions.

Last edited by Jeevith : 24th September 2018 at 17:10.
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Old 24th September 2018, 17:50   #514
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Am I kidding? definitely not.

Please do a Google search yourself on "mahindra xuv500 airbags deployed in an accident" & search again replacing Mahindra XUV500 with Mercedes Benz.

The image search given below speak for themselves.

Conclusion is: the product (airbags in XUV500) is spurious, not well designed, may be with an improper algorithm, have cheap sensors or in layman's terms - half cooked, doesn't serve the purpose that it is designed for.
Great! You, my friend have put in great effort and have reached a groundbreaking conclusion that can put automobile engineers to shame.
Next, we will do BSNCAP tests by searching for images on google and then report which car is safe/unsafe depending upon how gruesome the pictures are.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:00   #515
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
First of all, before trying to justify the manufacturer tooth and nail,
Where did I justify manufacturer tooth and nail?
Check all my 3 posts on this thread on previous page

In fact in my first post on the previous page, this is what I mentioned against Mahindra for that Army friend’s case

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIndian View Post
Now, this needs to be pursued. Clear cut, step by step, forthright citations of the sequence of events, crash, precautions taken, and expectations demanded from Mahindra clearly articulated. Logically & objectively put up to Mahindras in no uncertain terms. Please keep us informed on the progress and our best wishes are with your friend.
Besides, reiterating that if you call me justifying manufacturer tooth and nail, I can call you blindly bashing the manufacturer nail and tooth, left, right & centre. Again, it won’t take any of us anywhere. Let’s refrain from such adjectives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
As I mentioned, I was curious if at all Google would throw out any matching results for the search criteria that I was looking for.
…..
Please do a Google search yourself on "mahindra xuv500 airbags deployed in an accident" & search again replacing Mahindra XUV500 with Mercedes Benz.
So, instead of paying heed to officially published figures (mentioned by SDP reposted by Jeevith above), you’ll conveniently go with Google search with selective wishful reinforcement?

1.IIRC Google uses some algorithm in throwing out the search results, sequence etc. e.g. most clicks, recency (ageing), preference & pattern of the Google account holder etc, am not sure on specifics though. But in that case, you are just relying on Google algorithm. Most of your XUV related results in the screenshot you posted are pertaining to this thread incidence, pictures, news items.

e.g. in your search “ Mahindra xuv500 airbags deployed in an accident”, you have replaced Mahindra xuv500 (Model) with Mercedes Benz (Brand). Try replacing it with Mercedes C-Class airbags deployed in an accident or try replacing it with Toyota Etios or better an equal brand to XUV for Apple-to-Apple comparison. Still it would depend on Google algorithms and may not lead to any sort of conclusion

2. You have selectively Google searched your way, against that in my previous post, I posted 2 screenshots. One was a mere search of "airbags didn't deploy" without any brand name. Which manufacturers’ names it returned with? Toyota, Mercedes? Was there Mahindra or XUV name there? No. So, does it mean XUV airbag deployment is more reliable than Toyota & Mercedes? According to your theory, the answer is YES. But I would not go gaga over it and would say it’s not conclusive and does not lead to any sort of conclusion

To avoid such subjectivity, that’s why forums like TBHP usually insist on asking to publish source or empirical/ authenticated data to substantiate what you claim. This was precisely what SDP was asking somebody a few pages back (to the best of my knowledge what I read there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Conclusion is: the product (airbags in XUV500) is spurious, not well designed, may be with an improper algorithm, have cheap sensors or in layman's terms - half cooked, doesn't serve the purpose that it is designed for.
Basis your Google search method & logic? I would say it’s a selective wishful reinforcement from such method which one derives what he/ she wants to derive and believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post

Your methodology presumes that ALL instances of airbag deployment (or non-deployment) are picked up by Google. Google merely uses crawlers that pick up other websites based on key words such as "airbags" and "deploy" (which is why even your search for "deployed" without the word "not" still picks up instances of images where air bags did not deploy).

Now that being the case, how likely is there going to be a website reporting an instance of airbag deployment (unless the airbags DIDN'T deploy). In other words an article on a website is more likely going to use the words "airbag" and "deploy" only in instances where the airbags didn't deploy. If you are looking for images/instances of airbag deployment, search only the phrase "XUV 500 accident" and you're probably going to find a higher success rate than your search phrase (though this will also not be an accurate representation of how many instances are there of air bag deployment as not all instances even get reported).
Missed your post. But exactly my point though was not technically sure of the terminology/ specifics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
Also, your comparative search (i.e., Mercedes) was for a manufacturer and not a specific car model. Try searching for the phase "toyota etios airbags deployed in an accident" or any other specific car model (and not a manufacturer), too see the point the rationalists are trying to make. And if you absolutely must use this method to compare cars (despite its obvious flaws), compare a car that sells in as many numbers as the XUV.
Exactly. Have mentioned the same but you've put it in a better way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
Lastly, the person you were responding to wasn't defending Mahindra, but IMHO was pointing out the folly of such short sighted methods of coming to conclusions.
Thank You. Which is precisely what I was pointing out.

Last edited by TheIndian : 24th September 2018 at 18:11.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:27   #516
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
Could someone post any link or photos of an incident where the airbags did deploy in an XUV500?
I had refrained from posting in this thread as there were a lot of heated debates and emotions going on deviating from the main subject. A month back when Mahindra came up with the official response I had googled the same. All the initial web links that came up was about Mahindra's response to Madhav's accident which felt like a paid exercise. When I searched for images of XUV's airbag deployment, the maximum I could find was deployment of driver airbags with numerous complaints of non-functioning side airbags from various forums to even twitter(separate incidents). In fact I had made a note of those links but couldn't post them in time and now it's missing. I guess anyone can do a deeper google search to reveal the same.

What I found very mysterious was that despite trying my best, I simply couldn't find a single photograph where an XUV 500's side airbags had deployed. May be my googling skills isn't that great. Members can try digging deeper. If we still can't find one or two pictures of side airbag deployment in an XUV even after so many years of this car being on sale, it's fair enough to assume something is missing. And since lives are at stake, requires immediate attention. If it works the way it is advertised, it should've been easy to find few pics of the same, as pictures of cars that are at the bottom of the sales chart can also be found on google with the airbags deployed.

What also surprised me to the core was how some members were advocating for Mahindra when a simple google search gives enough hints about inadequate airbag deployments in XUV. Yes, there can be one off cases which we can understand, but it's hard to digest when the number of incidents are so high. We all can have our own opinion which may be right or wrong, but considering the lives at stake, we need to think more rationally. Just placing ourselves in Arvind's shoes gives us a glimpse of his trauma. If I need to hit the car at a particular angle or spot for airbags to work, what purpose does it serve? We Indians need to emphasize on safety of cars! See how difficult Arvind's journey has been so far. Corporates are exploiting lackluster laws and making money while playing with our lives. And if Government isn't stepping in, we as consumers should show our power. Avoid those manufacturers that doesn't care for their customers. Until now my list of deceitful manufacturers(strictly mine BTW) were Maruti Suzuki and Renault. & now I will add Mahindra too to the list. Fuel efficiency, resale, bling etc. can wait. Safety cannot! I don't think Mahindra would've dealt with this incident so carefree if this happened in another country. May be we can forward these links to some American automotive forums so Mahindra would feel some heat. Would serve them right as they are now venturing into the United states.

@ Arvind: I can feel the pain you've gone through and have been praying for Madhav from the moment I saw this thread. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

Last edited by SUPERSPORT : 24th September 2018 at 18:41.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:28   #517
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Great! You, my friend have put in great effort and have reached a groundbreaking conclusion that can put automobile engineers to shame.
Mate, go through my post completely (post# 506). I have clearly mentioned in that post that "just out of curiosity" I wanted to see if at all there are any instances of severe accidents where the airbags did deploy and the occupants were saved (XUV500). However, I could not find any.

The above statement was misinterpreted by a few that I am basing the Google results for claiming the XUV 500 is an unsafe car. However, please note that my claims were made based on the severity of the 2 accidents that are reported on this thread and one more that dates back to 2015, wherein the airbags failed to deploy during accidents of extremely severe in nature.

I still say that XUV500 is an unsafe car - based on the multiple airbag failures reported in the last couple of years & not based on Google search.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Next, we will do BSNCAP tests by searching for images on google and then report which car is safe/unsafe depending upon how gruesome the pictures are.
Feel free to issue BSNCAP, CRNCAP or whatever SNCAP reports, I am not bothered.

Apologies if I've offended any of you (or your sentiments for the brand/car) by saying XUV500 is an unsafe car. The Manufacturer and the Make is immaterial here (as well to me).

As I've mentioned in my previous posts - I've nothing against the manufacturer, just wish the XUV to be safer.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:41   #518
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
However, please note that my claims were made based on the severity of the 2 accidents that are reported on this thread and one more that dates back to 2015, wherein the airbags failed to deploy during accidents of extremely severe in nature.

I still say that XUV500 is an unsafe car - based on the multiple airbag failures reported in the last couple of years & not based on Google search.
You can very well say that, since thats what everyone say. However, the analogy that what google does not have doesnt exist is not true. If you cant find pictures on google, that means whichever XUV owner had an accident and his airbag worked as expected did not come and post it anywhere on the internet. Please get logic before we start using google search results as a reference given how poor the media has become these days. Now if you search for XUV airbag what you mostly get is articles about the same car in this thread, all over the place since these days, most websites just pick up info from TBHP and repost.
I hope this thread remains sterile in a way that Arvind can post updates about the ongoing fight and all the proceedings can be kept well organised so that it will be a good reference for everyone else.
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Old 24th September 2018, 23:36   #519
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post

The Mahindra statement talks about 7000 airbags consumed at dealerships. That means keeping aside the totaled vehicles (which would go to scrap mostly), there have been 7000 XUVs in which the airbags did deploy and were replaced as part of repairs.
Is it possible to get a break up of the 7000 airbags - i.e. how many driver side, passenger side and curtain airbags each?

Because Mahindra's statement (as per your post), if read literally, means that only one airbag gets deployed in each accident.

But if this is not the case, then a fewer number (much lesser than 3500) of cars had their airbags deployed.

Last edited by samaspire : 24th September 2018 at 23:39.
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Old 25th September 2018, 00:50   #520
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
When I started reading the thread thoroughly from start yesterday, I was appalled by many of the comments. I have huge respect for this forum because of the maturity of the members here. So it was painful to witness the mindless Mahindra bashing (and even Tata in some posts) which has been going on, which is almost similar to the mob-violence that is so common nowadays.. just a sophisticated, polished-English version of it. There is no first-person account of what exactly happened. There has been no investigation (by police) about the accident itself (at least nothing shared on the thread) and no investigation (by manufacturer or any independent body) of the car involved to understand the reasons behind what happened. In that case, I fail to understand why so many well-educated and knowledgeable members jumped to the conclusion, putting the blame squarely on the car and the manufacturer.

Even if we assume that in Arvind's case the airbags should have deployed and they didn't due to a malfunction, how does one ascertain whether this is an isolated incident or an issue with specific batches or a fundamental design flaw with the model? Without any investigation, how and why did some members jumped to the conclusions - "are airbags really installed in the XUV?", "all XUVs are unsafe" and even "all Mahindra vehicles are unsafe"? Frankly, very disappointing! Was expecting better from the members of this respected forum.
I know the quoted post is a few days old, but I just happened to see it because it was quoted by another member a few minutes ago.

It was all very nostalgic for me because it reminded me of a very recent hot thread we had here on TBhp where a member had found 2 k-truss members missing in the new Endeavour when compared to the Australian Everest. All hell had broken loose then. 19 pages of Ford and Endeavour bashing by members who had absolutely no idea what the purpose of those bars were. Some of them didn't even know what the bar was called, or how to spell it. Yet they concluded that the Endeavour was absolutely unsafe. Some of the members even went as far as saying they would never ever recommend the Endeavour to anyone (but they eventually ended up buying it themselves a few days later ). Finally the thread had to be closed because it became clear that no one had any sound knowledge on the actual purpose of the bars and whether it was actually required.

But that was different. That was merely speculation on a subject on which no one obviously had any knowledge. Nothing was proved.

This is a different case altogether. When you buy a car for its safety equipment, you expect the so called safety equipment to work 100% of the time with no clauses attached. Period. They may or may not prevent injury/death because that depends on a lot of other things. But they are expected to do their single job of deploying when they are required. Exactly like how every time you expect the car to stop or reduce speed when you press the brake pedal. This is not the first incident. There have been a few instances now where the airbags did not deploy in the XUV 5OO and there clearly is a problem.

You seem to have specifically looked for a person who seemed to support your theory and you so believe what he says is gospel.

When you advertise having 6 airbags, how can you have so many conditions in small print for them to work?

This is a serious issue. Something that deserves immediate attention from Mahindra. If there is something inherently wrong with the equipment, they should do a recall and set things right before more and more innocent customers become victims.
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Old 25th September 2018, 04:56   #521
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

I just wanted to chime in on regards to what is being said about airbag sensors not directly being impacted, thus it is perhaps reasonable enough to accept that the airbags need not deploy. I don't know how rudimentary or advanced the system that mahindra is using is. However I have personally been in an accident where airbag sensors were not at all directly impacted yet the car correctly chose to deploy only both front airbags and not any of the other ones. It is not always necessary that impact sensors ought to be hit hard for them to register an impact some of them are also supposed to measure rapid deceleration and the vectors of forces influencing the car's movement. Again, I am not sure how they work in the case of the XUV500 but most premium cars need not have their impact sensors directly hit on order to register and accident and deploy the correct airbags.

I supposed it ought to be made more clear to the public in brochure spec sheets about what kind of technology is used in these supplementary safety systems.
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Old 25th September 2018, 08:19   #522
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While researching on this topic i came across an excellent video on how airbag sensors are constructed and function. Thought i will post the link to the video here. Perhaps it can help in some way.
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Old 25th September 2018, 08:57   #523
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
It was all very nostalgic for me because it reminded me of a very recent hot thread we had here on TBhp where a member had found 2 k-truss members missing in the new Endeavour when compared to the Australian Everest. All hell had broken loose then. 19 pages of Ford and Endeavour bashing by members who had absolutely no idea what the purpose of those bars were. Some of them didn't even know what the bar was called, or how to spell it. Yet they concluded that the Endeavour was absolutely unsafe.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4441649 (Ford doesn't have an EcoSport for Team-BHP; Can we please borrow yours?)

I say this again, all we wanted was an answer, nothing more, nothing less. Which Ford has not yet come up with.

And why it very nostalgic & all that blah?
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Old 25th September 2018, 09:08   #524
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbatrody View Post
The above statement was misinterpreted by a few that I am basing the Google results for claiming the XUV 500 is an unsafe car. However, please note that my claims were made based on the severity of the 2 accidents that are reported on this thread and one more that dates back to 2015, wherein the airbags failed to deploy during accidents of extremely severe in nature.

I still say that XUV500 is an unsafe car - based on the multiple airbag failures reported in the last couple of years & not based on Google search.
So if someone showed you 3 severe accidents (i.e., one more than the two that you've seen) of another car where the airbags didn't deploy, will you conclude that that car is more unsafe than an XUV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
But if this is not the case, then a fewer number (much lesser than 3500) of cars had their airbags deployed.
Sam, I'm going to use your post in another context. Let's assume the number is 1000 cars (not even 3500). Why don't we have images of these 1000 cars on Google? Because no one reports an event that happens as it supposed to happen (i.e., airbags deploying).

Point being you can't conclude on the safety of a car based on reported instances. Because that way, you'll even find instances of where a Volvo's airbags didn't deploy.

Last edited by Jeevith : 25th September 2018 at 09:16.
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Old 25th September 2018, 12:06   #525
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Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)


Would anyone have an update on how the kid is recovering?
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