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Old 10th October 2018, 16:31   #1
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Default Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

Euro NCAP and UK-based safety company Thatcham Research have revealed that they found components marked "for crash test only" and "for Euro NCAP only" on some cars while conducting stripdown audits. Some of the parts with such labels include airbag modules and ISOFIX points.

All mass produced cars being sold in the European Union undergo mandatory crash tests conducted by Euro NCAP. In some cases, researchers have stripped the car down to inspect individual components. They have come across parts that were marked or had suspicious labelling. Most of these parts had come from third party suppliers.

When the carmakers were asked for an explanation, one of the reasons given was that these components are taken from production slots with tight deadlines and such markings helped in preventing delays. Investigators also revealed that they visited car and parts' factories. Euro NCAP also retested vehicles in case of any suspicion. The organisation has also revealed that there has been no deliberate attempt to cheat in the tests.

Since the last two years, Euro NCAP has not come across any marked parts. One of the reasons could be the emission scandal, because of which, car companies are looking at their internal processes and also knowing that the testing agency would keep an eye on discrepancies.

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Last edited by blackwasp : 10th October 2018 at 16:33.
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Old 10th October 2018, 21:49   #2
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

Now just imagine what kind of cars could be (or already are) going for GNCAP from India. These agencies can only vouch for the crash test and the vehicle involved but what's happening at the assembly line is anybody's guess.

There is a reason why I'd rather stick with Toyota or Honda than a Tata or Mahindra.

I'm honestly waiting for the day when someone imports XUV5OO from Australia and then strips it down part by part with the XUV5OO made for Indian market, that'd be something!
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Old 10th October 2018, 22:25   #3
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Now just imagine what kind of cars could be (or already are) going for GNCAP from India. These agencies can only vouch for the crash test and the vehicle involved but what's happening at the assembly line is anybody's guess.

There is a reason why I'd rather stick with Toyota or Honda than a Tata or Mahindra.

I'm honestly waiting for the day when someone imports XUV5OO from Australia and then strips it down part by part with the XUV5OO made for Indian market, that'd be something!
I'm not sure why you're accusing Tata of violating crash test norms without taking into account that they were the only company to have India's first and only (even today, correct me if I am wrong) world class crash test facility before everyone began bothering about safety. I'm not being a fanboy here, but whenever I was at the Tata showroom, more than often, I've found people who were buying a new Tata product because the previous one saved them in an accident.

It would be better to make allegations after having at least anecdotal evidence. As far as I know, the Zest, Xenon, Nexon were rated 3+*s in the crash tests.
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Old 10th October 2018, 22:37   #4
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

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Originally Posted by Nissan1180 View Post
It would be better to make allegations after having at least anecdotal evidence
Mate, I just shared my preference based on my experience with both Tata & Mahindra as well as Toyota & Honda. Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings but my point was simply that I feel more confident with certain manufacturers (our country's bureaucracy may or may not have anything to do with it).

Around the evidence part, I don't have any but I guess this forum itself has enough for/against all 4 auto manufacturers involved.

I think the point really is, both for you and me, how does a customer feel confident that the product they are buying is really the one they advertised/crash-tested!
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Old 10th October 2018, 23:18   #5
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

Euro NCAP could have revealed the names of such car models as it appears they had not come with a clean slate.

True, the car makers are now scared that any manipulations may be gainful in the short- term, but have harmful long-term effects.
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Old 11th October 2018, 00:03   #6
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Euro NCAP could have revealed the names of such car models as it appears they had not come with a clean slate.

True, the car makers are now scared that any manipulations may be gainful in the short- term, but have harmful long-term effects.
I guess that the car makers will be given the opportunity to prove that these parts were merely labelled as earmarked for crash testing and not modified to fudge the test. I guess the enquiry is going on.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:51   #7
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

The mere fact that this comes forward two years after they found out about it means that there's some level of collusion going on.

They need to name and shame these manufacturers, not suppress such news.
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Old 11th October 2018, 07:29   #8
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

How could I not see this coming! Integrity is a rare commodity these days. The exact same motivation and mechanism for emission cheating can be the basis for crash test cheating. In this #metoo days, can't trust anyone to be a saint!

I hope this news gets enough coverage and thorough investigation is carried out.
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Old 11th October 2018, 09:37   #9
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

From doctored cars provided for emissions tests to meet standards to now this.

Couldn't find anything specific on the Euro NCAP website but this is what the Latin NCAP says:

Quote:
How Latin NCAP get the cars in general?

At dealers, like any consumer does.If the car is sponsored the first option is to get the car at a dealer. If this is not possible Latin NCAP can choose the car from production, strictly following the protocol and having the chance to perform a verification test at any time.
https://www.latinncap.com/en/faq

GNCAP says they are a charity, assume Latin/Euro NCAP are the same. That makes it not feasible for them to purchase cars at their expense to make sure the car they test is as a regular customer would get, considering the multitude of cars and that they are destroyed during the tests.
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:36   #10
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

NCAP is an industry funded operation, its founder is a dicey personality with equally dubious company. The organisation will do whatever it takes to protect the business of its customers.It's like the relationship between Enron and Arthur Anderson

The same thing that was done with emissions was done with crash tests. I don't know why people are acting surprised, large European companies are and always have been crooks, but polished ones at that.

Not a single company was prepared for the emissions testing regime change, basically real world testing was done away with ages ago. The low emissions versions of fleet cars were tested without seats to meet the co2 limits. NCAP is a more well known aspect of an EU-wide rot.
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Old 11th October 2018, 11:22   #11
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

So they dont buy a car from the open market ? Or is there something missing ?
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Old 11th October 2018, 11:45   #12
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

This is not surprising. This reminds of the ISO, SCI CMM audit that goes on in the IT companies where they pick and specifically prepare the 'participants' and projects, while rest of the organization will not have a clue about it. There should be a way where the cars and randomly picked from production for testing.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:39   #13
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
The exact same motivation and mechanism for emission cheating can be the basis for crash test cheating. In this #metoo days, can't trust anyone to be a saint!
There is a slight difference here. Rather than try to shove it under the carpet, they have come forward with it. Note that its not about them co-conspiring with car makers. It's only the strip down that revelled these parts. So, I would try to blame the carmakers more than the testers. Remember the Kwid episode?

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
From doctored cars provided for emissions tests to meet standards to now this.
Again, while most will compare it directly to the emissions scandal, I think we shouldn't. The main reason being the follow ups by the Euro NCAP when finding the marked components.

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The organisation will do whatever it takes to protect the business of its customers.
I disagree. They wouldn't have come forward with this. Though you have a point, this news is more for the future cars that come for testing to have have any funny business going on. Post the emissions scandal, people are weary of carmakers indulging in unfair practices and it is seen in the sales charts of VW in Europe. Euro NCAP, in my opinion, still a very pro-consumer organization despite being closely linked to the success / failure of a particular car.

Further, in today's age of Euro NCAP, NHTSA tests, IIHS, ANCAP, JNCAP, Latin NCAP and many others, reports will have to be similar. E.g. they might fudge one of them, but not all. Most global models are tested at least by 2-4 of the above bodies. I'm sure a vehicle getting 5-star in one of them and 2-stars in would raise an alarm.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:08   #14
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
There is a slight difference here. Rather than try to shove it under the carpet, they have come forward with it. Note that its not about them co-conspiring with car makers. It's only the strip down that revelled these parts. So, I would try to blame the carmakers more than the testers. Remember the Kwid episode?


Again, while most will compare it directly to the emissions scandal, I think we shouldn't. The main reason being the follow ups by the Euro NCAP when finding the marked components.
.
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post, I meant to say I do not trust car makers based on emission fraud. Not the testing companies. However the testing companies should disclose how they procured the vehicle and the facilities used for testing. There is a huge difference between a random car bought from the dealer vs a car supplied by the car maker.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:25   #15
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Default Re: Euro NCAP stripdown audit reveals 'for crash test only' parts

This is how EuroNCAP procures cars for testing:
https://www.euroncap.com/en/about-eu...ion-explained/

See the last paragraph on "What if cars are not yet on sale?" which is most relevant. When manufacturers launch a model, they usually like to have the EuroNCAP rating already. In this case,
Quote:
This means that Euro NCAP sometimes will test cars which are not yet available at dealers. In these circumstances, Euro NCAP selects cars from early production. Euro NCAP may visit the manufacturing plant to choose cars at random or VINs may be selected randomly from a list provided by the manufacturer.
Entirely possible that early production models are fitted with "special" safety equipment, and only these VINs are shared with EuroNCAP so that the car gets a better safety rating.
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