[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

I've been in such a situation twice: I was told (without enough or reasonable justification) that a certain expensive part needed replacement and when I dilly dallied, was taken outside the A.S.S. and given the option that they would do the replacement by taking the part from a total loss vehicle. The cost would be 60-80%, it would be done at the A.S.S. itself, off the record and would have the service manager's blessings.

At least you were informed of this possibility and then you took an informed decision. My primary concern is what if the A$$ guys are hand in glove with some of these chaps and end up doing this without our knowledge. I would assume everything is fine because I went to them. I think in such cases it is really more stressfree to go to someone you trust, even if it is your friendly neighborhood guy.

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

I think car companies need to innovate in a way that a airbag or official accessory will ONLY work with that particular car and if removed and fitted to another car, it would need a visit to A$$.

With things the way they are, many manufacturers don't seem to exercise any control over the shenanigans of their dealers/ workshops. They could either be involved with them or they are too afraid to rock the boat. So even if the car needs to be taken there, we have to be careful about what they do.
With my earlier car, they replaced a set of wiperblades that I had just installed a week before. The used set which they kept in the car (and claimed they replaced) was not what the car had when it went to them. I let them know that I had caught their bluff and they started making excuses.

[aravind.anand]

With so many OEM airbags being reported for non-deployment, only a true blue idiot would take chances with an airbag from a scrapyard, and get that fitted with a roadside mechanic.

If we all collectively stop buying it from the scrapyard this whole theft idea will fail. But yeah, that applies to almost all the goods we get from the scrapyards too.

[sgiitk]

We will steal anything. See the way trains are being vandalized. Most of us consider safety as being for the birds. How many of us, will willingly use seatbelts, given the option.

[jeeva]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

With so many OEM airbags being reported for non-deployment, only a true blue idiot would take chances with an airbag from a scrapyard, and get that fitted with a roadside mechanic.

If we all collectively stop buying it from the scrapyard this whole theft idea will fail. But yeah, that applies to almost all the goods we get from the scrapyards too.

True that.

But then again, how sure can one be about the stuff being replaced ,without you being around at the Authorized Service Centers being genuine, well, the expensive electronic gizmos/sensors that are an easy swap? No, I am not talking about over the counter sales like how Mahindra, Tata, and Maruti does. I am specific about the German Marques. One should also take into consideration that they don't sell genuine spares over the counter nor in the open market. If so, have you ever wondered how come the spare part dealers procure the genuine spares, albeit the original packing /covers missing? Food for thought!

[manish84]

Same sort of theft happened to my friend's two week old Innova Crysta . The thieves broke the front passenger's window and ripped open the whole of dashboard. In addition there was similar theft in two another Innovas in the same compound. This happened in a housing society in Matunga, Mumbai near Don Bosco school.

What was not shocking was that my friend had to sit at police station for 4 hours as he did not want to bribe for registering an FIR (required for insurance claim). It is really heart rending when such kind of thefts happen to a brand new car.

[sidpunjabi]

Just trying to get in a different point of view here (and maybe a really noob question) - how easy is it to fit an airbag in a car that came without airbags from the factory?

Couple of years ago, airbags were usually offered only in the top variant, unlike today where most manufactures just put it in as standard fitment. Suffice to say that many cars on the road today belong to that era, and could be a non-airbag variant.

Owners of those cars might be looking to upgrade, but won't go through ASS due to high cost and/or ASS refusing to fit an airbag in those non-compliant cars. Maybe that's where the demand is coming from.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sidpunjabi

Just trying to get in a different point of view here (and maybe a really noob question) - how easy is it to fit an airbag in a car that came without airbags from the factory?

.

It really depends on how the car was made. If an identical model was made with and without airbags that would make it somewhat easier.

But you need to have all the spaces where the airbags go, specially designed. E.g. the steering wheel, dashboard, chairs etc.

Next you need all the cabling and sensors as well. I doubt those would be installed in cars without airbags.

I would not think an easy after market fit/job. I don’t think I would ever trust a car that came without air bags and was fitted with them afterwards.

Jeroen

[sidpunjabi]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It really depends on how the car was made. If an identical model was made with and without airbags that would make it somewhat easier.

But you need to have all the spaces where the airbags go, specially designed. E.g. the steering wheel, dashboard, chairs etc.

Next you need all the cabling and sensors as well. I doubt those would be installed in cars without airbags.

Gotcha. So if the top end variant (Swift / DZire ZXi+ or Eon / i20 Asta) has air bags, it's possible for these thieves to pawn off these stolen airbags to the respective car's non-airbag-variant unsuspecting owners, or even to garages for that matter?

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I don’t think I would ever trust a car that came without air bags and was fitted with them afterwards.

What about previous-gen Swift/Dzire LXi or an Eon/i10 Era (non-airbag variants) owners - won't the airbag be better off for them?

There's no doubt that OEM and factory fitment is always the best way to go.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

But you need to have all the spaces where the airbags go, specially designed. E.g. the steering wheel, dashboard, chairs etc.

I also assume that the software needs to be upgraded too. Of course it may not be very difficult for them to refresh the software.
Another possibility (very less probability). If the airbags get stolen, owners need to get them replaced. In the process someone gets benefited

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

... ... ... I just could not believe i was looking at a car that was completely crushed few months back. I was shown the pictures of the crushed Innova, it was a total loss vehicle which gets sold by the insurance company as scrap and these workshop owners buy the scrap. Then there are investors who put in money to get it back in shape and then sell it to Taxi folks who buy it happily. ... ... ...

This is one of the most frightening things I have heard in a long time. Such a cab could be unsafe in so very many ways. Really worrying to think that next time I travel in one, I could be risking my life in a pile of scrap.

[Miyata]

I presume many of these people indulging in such thievery would have access to a larger customer base across many countries apart from India - Nepal, SL, Bangaldesh, some in the African continent, etc.

From what I understand about few systems of Airbags, in some cases they don't necessarily need any software intervention. They at times work in just mechanical ways - a rapid deceleration leads to the mechanical switch (spring and ball arrangement) engaging, leading to the rapid chemical reaction filling up the bag in few milliseconds - done and dusted.

But indulging in such cheap thievery is surely common to all countries - I once had once those stickers from the windshield stolen in Philadelphia after they broke my drivers side window-glass. Their gain = my loss = ~ USD 30.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sidpunjabi

Gotcha. So if the top end variant (Swift / DZire ZXi+ or Eon / i20 Asta) has air bags, it's possible for these thieves to pawn off these stolen airbags to the respective car's non-airbag-variant unsuspecting owners, or even to garages for that matter?

I really don’t know about India. But in general I would say stealing airbags to upgrade none airbag cars is just way to cumbersome.

Airbags and lots of other parts get stolen for repair jobs on cars that have been in accidents.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

This is one of the most frightening things I have heard in a long time. Such a cab could be unsafe in so very many ways. Really worrying to think that next time I travel in one, I could be risking my life in a pile of scrap.

There are two kind of write offs. Economical and technical. Economical write off happens when the cost of the repair tends to be substantially more than the value of the car.

Technical write off is when something has been damaged beyond repair. E.g. a totally destroyed/warped chassis perhaps. It really depends on the car.

These days with modern techniques there are actually very few technical write off. Just about anything can be repaired. I have a friend in Kansas City who bought all economical and technical write off wrecks from the insurance companies and got them back on the road. He had some amazing equipement and skills. A completely bent car, he could get back into shape with higher tolerance than the original factory tolerances.

The problem is how do you know a car has been in a bad shunt. How do you know how well it has been restored. How to verify original, or at least, appropriate parts have been used.

Actually, the airbags are the least of your worries. They are very simply devices. Lots of car manufacturers have been plagued with fake parts and that is a much bigger problem. These days some counterfeit parts look truly identical to the original. Down to the shape, colour, packing, labels etc. But they often are of inferior quality.

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thank you, Jeroen. That would make me feel better if I felt that it was likely that such cars were repaired with the skills and equipment of which you speak, rather than the skills and equipment (and methods?) of what in UK is called a ringer: a car welded up from the front end of one vehicle and the back end of another.

Way back in 1990, I was taking my car to a London Ford service centre for repair. I noticed a completely stripped out body. I was told that they were correcting major accident damage on a jig, and, yes, it was cheaper to strip the car out, do that, and then replace everything. I'm still amazed at that!

[Manoj2268]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

I think car companies need to innovate in a way that a airbag or official accessory will ONLY work with that particular car and if removed and fitted to another car, it would need a visit to A$$.

This is a slippery slope. How long do you think that the manufacturer extends this "practice" of official authentication to all spares resulting in increasing servicing costs(kinda what apple did with the error 53 scandal)

The market for stolen goods exists because there are people who buy or support this parallel distribution network(due to manufacturer not selling parts in the open and/or penny pinching by the end user). This network exists because majority do not follow the practice of preventative maintenance and replace/repair when the part has given up the ghost, completely forgetting that the automobile is a network of multiple systems, working in tandem with multiple parts coordinating with each other.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

That would make me feel better if I felt that it was likely that such cars were repaired with the skills and equipment of which you speak, rather than the skills and equipment (and methods?) of what in UK is called a ringer: a car welded up from the front end of one vehicle and the back end of another.

I don’t want to upset you further, but you should be aware that “ringers” can be perfectly legal, when done properly. When being the operative word, not to say the elephant in the room. My friend in KC would do them. He showed me some examples on where he could or could not do it. All to do with how badly, more importantly, in which places, the cars were damaged to start with.

I would never ever buy such a car. I would not even buy a car that has been in a bad shunt. Some countries (e.g. USA) keep registers of major collisions and when a car went into water for instance. No matter how skilled the restorer was, I just would not feel comfortable. So I never bought a car from my friend. Even though they were perfect and cheap. He did a couple of excellent paint jobs on our cars though!

Unfortunately people dealing with cars, be it proper dealers and the aftermarket has a poor reputation when it comes to trusting them. In my experience all over the world.

Many years ago, my dad owned a Volkswagen K70. He had been with the same VW dealer for years. At the time, this was the main and largest VW dealer in the Netherlands I thought they were taken him for a ride. Charging for stuff they did not do So one day I took the car for a service. Next to the regular service I gave them a long list of stuff to check/replace.

When I came to pick it up they presented me with this huge bill. I told them I wanted to check the car first and that I had put UV markers on each and every parts they should have touched. Showed them my little UV torch. That got their attention. Within 30 seconds I was shown into the managers office. All sorts of guys running back and forth and whispering. So I told one of them; just out of curiosity, you know my dad is a lawyer and is currently handling a case for one of your executives in Germany, don’t you? More running back and forth.

After a couple of minutes the manager came in: He apologised extensively and told me that on second thoughts the car wasn’t ready after all. He gave me the keys to his personal Porsche as a loaner and would I mind coming back tomorrow?

Red carpet treatment from there on! Even so, never trusted them.

This was late 70’s. So car people being dodgy has been going on for as long as I can remember.

Jeroen