[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

If you go through the last few posts, it turns out, he wasn't driving the car. His friend was driving the car with both the friend and SA belted up in the front and the whole family in the back, who didn't have any seatbelts on...

Then I am truly sorry for the loss of the father as well as the pain and injury to the mother and child.

[Caramba]

Not absolving the driver from his mistakes, but a lot of times the sales people actively encourage bad driving and some times are ever so eager to demonstrate the power of their product, themselves.
At some level dealers and sales persons need to take action in driving (no pun intended) more accountable behaviour. Only once have I had a sales person letting me know that I should observe all traffic rules and limits before I set off on a test drive (actually ride in this case).
Also there could be issues on how the sales people themselves drive which leads them to believe customers should also drive like maniacs.
Last sunday, happened to witness an extremely rashly driven Discovery Sport on Hosur Road. It was a showroom vehicle and it was clear that the driver could not care less for his or anyone else's safety. If the same person was sitting in this car, he probably would not have said anything for this would be normal for him.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

...just to show people who arent familiar with this piece of road in bangalore.

Originally Posted by abhi7013

I remember reading an extract where the police said there were no tyre/skid marks on the road to indicate braking..

APPENDING MY POST ABOVE

There is VERY CLEAR RIGHT TYRE SKID MARK which turns into the Aluminum scratch mark from the right rim. Wonder why cops missed to see the ABS kicking in tyre mark (its very clear that ABS was working hard and subtle rubber'on'-rubber'off'-rubber'on' marks are seen in a sharp left hand curve turn leading to the point of impact on the kerb.

It is VERY clear at a particular point where that ABS on-off rubber marks go off and aluminum skid marks start. It shows that the tyre burst at that point and from there on (about 20 feet before impact) there was no work of (at least 1 rubber) to stop the car.

Hope cops revise their statement. I will try to capture that pic tomorrow.

[bharatbits]

What's the point in doing such speeds? Especially on a vehicle on which you have just landed your hands on, whose driving dynamics, stability, power, throttle response times you have no idea about. I have taken numerous test drives and i test drive it the way i drive my everyday car, maybe just miss a few potholes and speedbumps deliberately to check suspension capability. The sales person must be thinking i must have just learnt to drive. Within city limits you drive a BMW or a Swift you'll reach your destination in the same time. Highway capabilities are anyway well documented in Youtube videos by experts in controlled settings. Any car i am in i insist the driver not to exceed 100kmph and set the buzzer at 105kmph for a pleasant drive. 100kmph can be achieved on any car these days. Bigger, powerful cars are more for comfort, luxury and ego boost and not for touching speeds of 200 kmph on Indian roads.

[VaidhiR]

Condolences to the family. A terrible news and sorry about the loss.

While test driving vehicles, there are a lot of factors that, as users, we consider if this is the car for us. Engine, Power Output, Fuel Consumption, Seating Capacity, Active and Passive Safety features, Dynamics, Handling, Responsiveness, Braking behaviour etc.

But there is one factor that we conveniently forget. Center of Gravity.

A Range Rover, or all SUVs for that matter, for all its safety features and premium offerings has a high CG. And we should be mindful of this when testing cars. Irrespective of what the sales representative has to say on its safety features. Defensive driving is, any day, the best safety feature to ever feature in any car. Active and passive safety systems only act as an "auxilliary" backup. But for driving behaviour, there is no backup.

The driver here, not only put his life at risk, but also that of its occupants, and that of the innocent people on the road. And there is no substitute for this kind of behaviour.

So please be aware of what your car is capable of. It is of utmost importance that I say this.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by deepakhon

I drive on that piece of NICE road pretty much every day. You are right about the downhill and the vehicles going fast there. What I fail to understand is that the toll booth is visible from very far, and the driver should have been seriously distracted not to have notice it on time.

People see but do not process the fact that they need to take action to the impending event. Most people drive and brake late, very late. Very necessary on a race track but quite the opposite on a normal road.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

...just to show people who arent familiar with this piece of road in bangalore.

The video (edited from my humble dash cam) shows the run up to the tool booth is over 2Kms of perfect-straight and quite a steep downhill approach.

As I mentioned, the NICE road have very low standards. Unlike the National Highways, the toll booths are clearly indicated a couple of kilometres ahead. Add to this, there are road marking and speed calming measures as you approach the booth. Efforts are made to clearly notify you to get ready to slow down.

[Ricky_63]

In my opinion, the test drive vehicles should have electronically limited speed. Most times people used to driving "not so powerful cars" may end up in the driver seat & their inexperience of handling a powerful car can result in accidents. As it did, unfortunately claiming the life of the driver. My 2 cents

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

It is VERY clear at a particular point where that ABS on-off rubber marks go off and aluminum skid marks start. It shows that the tyre burst at that point

You mean the tyre burst due to hard braking? And a brand new one? I never knew that would happen.

[Nalin1]

It is always a thin line between having control and losing control. How do we know if we have crossed it or not (that is, knowing before a mishap)?

It is totally up to the individual in the most important seat in the vehicle. At no stage should he/she feel that the vehicle is controlling the mind and not the other way around. The moment that feeling occurs- The door opens wide enough for absolutely anything from a minor scratch to a complete loss.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

It is always a thin line between having control and losing control. How do we know if we have crossed it or not (that is, knowing before a mishap)?

Yes, it happens in fraction of seconds. The lack of experience turns into like driving a monstrous vehicle, I always caution people when they migrate from a entry level hatchback to more powerful vehicles. Even today when I drive someone else car, I get used to it initially before entering the 3 digit mark.

[motobliss]

I think it's time that our government imposed some speed limits in cars themselves. This not only saves the ones in car but also the people outside of it.

[UB_007]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

You mean the tyre burst due to hard braking? And a brand new one? I never knew that would happen.

This should not happen generally and tires are capable of handling such load. What I do not understand is why is there only one line of tire mark.
ABS generally kick-in on all 4 wheels (Some case 2 wheels depending on the construction architecture) and am missing here the wheel marks of other wheels. Does this mean this one tire which left marks was damaged before the braking started at high speed?

-UB

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by motobliss

I think it's time that our government imposed some speed limits in cars themselves. This not only saves the ones in car but also the people outside of it.

True, our roads are not built for high speeds, the mindset of people also is lost in stone age period. The danger always exists in the form ignorance and arrogance, it may be either the drivers on road or people walking on roads.

[VaidhiR]

I dont think speed limiters are the way to go about it. Awareness is the solution.

- How many times have we observed cars, autos, trucks, motorbikes plying on the wrong side of the road?
- How many times have we observed unbelted occupants in a car?
- How many times do the occupants quickly wear the seatbelt upon seeing the police?
- How many times have we seen cars parked dangerously on the side of the road?
- How many times have we seen car drivers using mobile phone only to put them away when seeing the police?

The point is, the awareness has to be raised about the perils of unsafe driving. People have to realise that driving is a dangerous activity and it can be fatal if necessary precautions are not considered. Campaigns involving videos and posters should be pinned up.

Driving licenses must be issued only after an extensive driving test. Here, in Germany, you cant attend a driving exam without the help of a driving school and putting in minimum hours of driving. And you must pass a theory exam that consists of 30 questions out of a pool of about 2700 questions. A 2018 research by the "highway authority" equivalent, shows a lowering trend of fatality rate as well as accident rate despite having NO SPEED LIMITS. How does one explain that?

https://www.bast.de/BASt_2017/EN/Pub...ident-Data.pdf

Because the drivers are aware of their limit, their car's limit. Which is, once again, awareness.

Which is why I dont think speed limiters are the solution. The onus should be on the driver to drive safe. The driver should be aware of his/her limits. The driver should be made aware of the car's limits. The driver should be aware of his/her surrounding and its influence on his/her driving. And should be made aware that defensive driving, is the safest system that any car can be equipped with.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by VaidhiR

I dont think speed limiters are the way to go about it. Awareness is the solution.

There is no way that the sales person can stop the driver slamming his foot down.

It's like the opposite of what a driving instructor told me about teaching in a dual-control car: "I can stop the car, but I can't stop you stopping it." He said that that is why most driving-school accidents involve being rear-ended. Learner panics and slams on the brake. In this instance we're talking about wildly slamming on the accelerator.

So, I think that speed limiters on demo cars can be effective. They can prevent the driver trying out the top speed. Of course, people will find ways to have accidents at slower speeds, but with very little effort a step can be taken to prevent these more extreme accidents.