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Old 5th April 2019, 07:40   #106
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by mpksuhas View Post
News article about this accident.

Attachment 1863464
This is ridiculous!
How can he be so careless with his family also in the car?
Sad to hear that the wife escaped with spine damage.
I am sorry for the kid.
Is it a bad idea to implement speed restrictions (as per Indian norms) on the TD cars?
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Old 5th April 2019, 08:51   #107
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Originally Posted by coolmind View Post
This is ridiculous!
How can he be so careless with his family also in the car?

Is it a bad idea to implement speed restrictions (as per Indian norms) on the TD cars?
I may feel harsh here, this person never deserved to own any SUV. He clearly lacked basic driving sense and did not have a clue about braking distance.Testing of high speeds on an unknown road is always dangerous, because higher the speed lesser the braking distance.

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Originally Posted by Lambydude View Post
A different approach I faced while buying my Octavia last month is that the SA politely asked me if he can drive and demonstrate the "speed" the car can attain.
I was pleasantly surprised by this approach and immediately agreed . I think more dealerships should adopt this approach. I took my car from TAFE Access HSR, Bangalore.
There is a history to this approach, it was about 7 years ago, one of TAFE's service person took a Octavia/Laura(don't remember) for test drive after servicing and killed a pedestrian near Bommasandra.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 5th April 2019 at 09:08. Reason: Merging back to back posts.
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Old 5th April 2019, 08:52   #108
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

This is really sad.
While the person behind the wheel might have been a bad driver(in my experience 70% of Indian drivers fall under this category), we don't know what kind of a person he was otherwise. But that by no means is an excuse to let him off the hook. Many a times stupid mistakes leads more (collateral) damage and unnecessary victims than deliberate attempts.

Assuming this guy is driving a RR or and exotic SUV for the first time the evoque with is quiet cabin and refined engine and suspension might have masked the speed warping his perception of speed and misguiding his driving judgement ( which was flawed to begin with ).
After years of observation, it has come to my notice that Indian drivers depend more on their perception of speed (they must FEEL they are going fast) rather than their actual speed. And this FEELING changes depending on road conditions and the refinement of the vehicle and they accelerate until they can FEEL IT.

As for the one tyre skid mark mentioned- it's entirely possible the the guy swerved when he thought the car wouldn't stop in time(or would it have?) so as to not plough into the toll booth and the Evoque being an SUV would have started to roll and was on two wheels with the others not in contact with the road before it hit the divider.
It leads me to think if everyone would have had a better chance at surviving had he not swerved and trusted the ABS and saftey features. I can't criticize anybody's split second decision made in a panick situation sitting behind my keyboard with no information on the traffic and other factors.

It is also possible that the driver as well as passengers were distracted by the features or the SA explaining about them in the brand new car especially since women passengers usually don't like going fast especially with a kid and would have forced whoever the driver was, to go slower if it had come to their notice that the car was speeding.
In the end it's all speculation and that's all what we can do until the authorities figure out the reason behind the crash.
P.S. Sorry for the long reply or in case of repetition of points mentioned in other posts.
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Old 5th April 2019, 09:44   #109
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
This is really sad.
While the person behind the wheel might have been a bad driver(in my experience 70% of Indian drivers fall under this category), we don't know what kind of a person he was otherwise. But that by no means is an excuse to let him off the hook. Many a times stupid mistakes leads more (collateral) damage and unnecessary victims than deliberate attempts.
I love how people throw around anecdotal percentages as if its a researched factual number. Why 70%, why not 69% or 68.5%? I think we can make our point without bringing in random percentage numbers.
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Old 5th April 2019, 09:57   #110
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I love how people throw around anecdotal percentages as if its a researched factual number. Why 70%, why not 69% or 68.5%? I think we can make our point without bringing in random percentage numbers.
Sorry for the pseudo statistics. I just wanted to drive home the point that more than half of the drivers on Indian roads are ,qualitatively speaking, bad drivers - for whom road manners/rules(except the major ones) and safety is at the bottom of their list . And since bad driving is not scientifically defined as far as I know, I just thought putting a percentage on in would be of no significant consequence.

Just because a bad driver has never been in an accident ,god forbid, it doesn't mean he/she is a good one.

P.S. Moderators can remove this post if its not adhering to forum rules.
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:27   #111
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

A person who used to drive manual shift cars will get confused while driving automatic cars. Things gets worse in panic situations
Even though it appears very simple to drive an automatic car, I have seen many people gets confused while driving them for the first time.
Here I have a doubt that the driver who was driving an unfamiliar car got even more confused because the car is automatic and could not stop the car in time.
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:04   #112
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by manojas View Post
A person who used to drive manual shift cars will get confused while driving automatic cars. Things gets worse in panic situations
Even though it appears very simple to drive an automatic car, I have seen many people gets confused while driving them for the first time.
Here I have a doubt that the driver who was driving an unfamiliar car got even more confused because the car is automatic and could not stop the car in time.

That is quite true. And I am sure the panic was grossly amplified in a dire panic situation. Weird example: When I put the cruise on the first time in my Creta, I felt so uncomfortable and disengaged from the engine, as if I am a passenger on the steering seat. It was not comfortable. Takes a while to get used to. Maybe at that high-speed (and adrenaline) the driver could not comprehend and crashed it.
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:23   #113
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by manojas View Post
A person who used to drive manual shift cars will get confused while driving automatic cars. Things gets worse in panic situations.
Both in Manual & Automatic, it is the right leg that does the braking. Why the confusion? Only an unfamiliar person with driving might try to use the left leg for braking.
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Originally Posted by asingh1977 View Post
That is quite true. And I am sure the panic was grossly amplified in a dire panic situation.
Even if cruise control is on, braking would dis-engage it immediately. Why wouldn't somebody brake if they see an obstacle ahead?
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:57   #114
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Even if cruise control is on, braking would dis-engage it immediately. Why wouldn't somebody brake if they see an obstacle ahead?

Yes. It is not about the mechanics (applying a break), just panicking in a situation when subjected to sudden mental trauma or discomfort. It takes years of conditioning (or experience) to keep a steady head when in tense situations specially with high speed or danger to life--example warfare. Have we not heard of cases where people pressed the "A" instead of the "B" when suddenly an object came in front of them? My cruise control example was just to objectify my statement, not apply to the RR accident.
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Old 5th April 2019, 17:46   #115
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Both in Manual & Automatic, it is the right leg that does the braking. Why the confusion? Only an unfamiliar person with driving might try to use the left leg for braking.
I had two instances where my friends (one with 40 years of driving experience on MT) who never drove an Automatic before, used their left leg on the brake thinking it to be clutch. That is an automatic muscle reaction during an emergency where your legs start doing things even without you recognizing it.
And using left leg on the brakes by a person accustomed to MT is very dangerous because your left leg is trained to depress the clutch pedal completely with full pressure and when they do that on the brake pedal, the vehicle comes to a violent halt.
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Old 5th April 2019, 18:10   #116
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
I had two instances where my friends (one with 40 years of driving experience on MT) who never drove an Automatic before, used their left leg on the brake thinking it to be clutch. That is an automatic muscle reaction during an emergency where your legs start doing things even without you recognizing it.
And using left leg on the brakes by a person accustomed to MT is very dangerous because your left leg is trained to depress the clutch pedal completely with full pressure and when they do that on the brake pedal, the vehicle comes to a violent halt.
Kind of what used to happen in yesteryear’s of yore. Biker’s would pick up the Enfield for the first time with aplomb, brake and shifter were swapped. My friend broke his ankle, since at the last moment he was braking, but the bike was shifting cogs.
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Old 5th April 2019, 18:54   #117
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
As to the sales staff demonstrating performance, it is quite possible that they are no better qualified than the customer. Although at least it wouldn't be their first time in the vehicle.

Oh boy! I can relate to this!


Few years back, one of my colleagues wanted to buy a scorpio.


We went to the showroom which was situated near silk board, Bangalore and after checking out the car, decided to go for a drive.


As was the norm those days, test drives used to happen either on the elevated road b/w bommanhalli and electronic city OR the NICE road.


I was sitting in the 2nd row, the SA was in the passenger seat and my colleague was driving.


Man, that was the most scariest test drives I ever participated. My colleage, the damn idiot, was racing the engine and the even more damn fool of SA was telling him that this has more juice and can go faster.


Those days, the elevated road was not having the speed interceptor vehicles, so people used to really zoom in these roads.


Once the car reached the EC toll gate, I diplomatically told him to stop the car and asked the SA to drive back, so that my colleague could test out the 2nd row seating comfort. The SA admitted that he still did not have his DL and he was appearing for the DL test only later that month!


I then forcibly asked my colleague to sit in the 2nd row, while I drove back to the showroom. That was the Last time I went for test drives with that fellow. When I read about this news of Range rover accident, I was reminded of this incident and I guess, we were really lucky that day!


And oh, later I came to know that my colleague also had just got his DL about couple of weeks earlier and he had a total of about 6-10 hours of driving experience! With that experience, and trying to race the car in triple digit speeds!

Last edited by haria : 5th April 2019 at 18:58.
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Old 5th April 2019, 19:32   #118
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Originally Posted by haria View Post
Oh boy! I can relate to this!
My colleage, the damn idiot, was racing the engine and the even more damn fool of SA was telling him that this has more juice and can go faster.
This is actually a part of the problem.

A Scorpio isnt built for speed. Neither is an Evoque. And even if a car is built for speed, like Lamborghini or Ferrari, it is not possible to have them speed tested on commercial roads.

But the SAs think (and this is plainly and utterly wrong btw!) that the only way a customer is convinced of buying a car, is to show how fast it can drive.

Why not show what a car is build for, rather than showing the top speed?

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Originally Posted by rangakishen View Post
Again, it is idealistic to expect what you have said, hence it is something we need to strive for by educating the people around us and most importantly the upcoming generations. But it cannot be a solution for the now.
I agree it is a long shot. Very long shot indeed. And very indealistic.

Why not start from the dealer? Educate them about the perils of speed testing of cars. It is not like they dont know. But they choose to ignore the safety regulations.

Back in 2001 when we bought our first car, the MS WagonR, we test drove it. And we were 8 people in the car. Things like this are also dangerous and should be banned. Hindsight and all that.

The showroom should reserve the right to cancel a test drive should the lives of the occupants and/or other road users and/or pedestrians are, in any way, endangered.

But the situation is, showrooms live with constant pressure of losing the customer if anything happens and the customer decides to walk away. And if the customer wants to speed test the MS Omni, the SA dont have any say.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 5th April 2019 at 21:07. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please use the multi-quote option (QUOTE+) while quoting and responding to multiple posts. Thanks.
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Old 7th April 2019, 07:21   #119
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by haria View Post
And oh, later I came to know that my colleague also had just got his DL about couple of weeks earlier..
I'm sorry but I would blame you rather than your colleague for allowing a novice with hardly any experience to TD a new class of vehicle.

On a related note, I never allow anyone else except dad and wife to drive while I'm aboard.

Can't risk the safety of self and family by giving wheel to some overzealous callow chap.

Last edited by Pferdestarke : 7th April 2019 at 07:24.
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Old 7th April 2019, 11:53   #120
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by Pferdestarke View Post
I'm sorry but I would blame you rather than your colleague for allowing a novice with hardly any experience to TD a new class of vehicle.
.

Maybe my post was not clear. I was not buying the vehicle. My colleague was and he wanted someone with him while test driving the vehicle. He requested me to come with him.



I hardly knew anything about his driving skills/experience at that time. We were just colleagues in the same office.


Anyways, it was an useful lesson learned at that time (happened around 2011 or so). That was the last time I participated in any sort of speed testing of any vehicle. I actively discourage that aspect when my friends ask me to accompany. My standard reply: you want to speed test, take it to a race track - not on public roads!



This may sound like a sacrilege to a forum like team-bhp, but one of the most useless piece of info I see in brochures and specs of cars is the section 0-100 in xx seconds for a vehicle which primarily is going to be used in and around city and driving in city traffic! It is of course a different matter altogether for a car enthusiast. But again, the majority of people who buy cars are not enthusiasts in that sense.



I can count the number of times I have crossed 70 in the last few years driving in Bangalore city, let alone 100! Mostly my speeds are in the ranges of 20-40 :-).
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