[aasheeshchopra]

Good Afternoon everyone.

First of all please accept my apologies for being absent since my first post, but I have been busy dealing with Toyota.

Thank you, everyone for such insightful views and analysis. It really is overwhelming and I thank each and everyone of you who took the time out of their lives to help and contribute to my situation. And I especially thank samaspire for sharing the case of a similar accident in which the airbags deployed. (showed it to Toyota, No answer!)

And thanks a lot to the admins for making this a separate discussion thread.

As for my kids and driver, we had them checked for internal and external injuries. One of my nephews has suffered scratches on the back and arms, while pain in the chest and back. We had X-rays done on both children just to make sure. They are fine, with the Grace and kindness of God. As for the driver, he has suffered major injuries to the arm and finger, becuase of the glass from the windows and something he explained which was a mixture of fire and sparks on the door, due to friction, that burned his arm and needs to get proper dressing for that. He also has suffered internal injuries of the chest but fortunately no ribs broken.

This kind of trauma is only understood by someone whose kids have been involved in such a major accident, and we all as a family keep thinking what could have happened. And it still scares us. They are 12 - 14 year old kids, for God's sake.

Now for Toyota's response.

After media attention, social and print, the Executives from Toyota came to visit us. They were polite, but had basically no concrete reason or response as to why the airbags did not open. They mentioned that: "We will call an expert from Bangalore, who will ascertain why the airbags did not open and posed a threat to the occupants inside."

My response was that at the time of selling me the car, you did not need to call any expert to assure me that the car has 7 airbags and is one of the safest cars in India. You were confident about your statement at the time of the sale of the car, now be in charge of that statement." The officials were polite and agreed to my statement. I asked them: "Where does the customer go in such an event and how the company can compensate the customer."
Thereafter, the officials politely said that they will discuss with the higher officials and left our premises.

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

My father was heartbroken that they are such a company, that first they risked the lives of our little children with a very serious safety lapse, and now they are threatening us with such ridiculous statements.

Do these companies only care for their sale figures?

We have other cars but we have always preferred travel in our Innova, as it had the maximum amount of safety features, especially travel of our children.

And as someone mentioned, it is absolutely true that a more expensive car does not guarantee safety. Safety is Safety. But I request these companies to not make false promises and charge me an extra 2-3 lakhs for a feature that doesn't guarantee the aforementioned safety.

God Bless!

[VVN]

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Good Afternoon everyone.


And as someone mentioned, it is absolutely true that a more expensive car does not guarantee safety. Safety is Safety. But I request these companies to not make false promises and charge me an extra 2-3 lakhs for a feature that doesn't guarantee the aforementioned safety.

God Bless!

Glad to know that the kids are ok and hope the driver recovers completely soon.

Can you please name and shame the dealership? Don't understand the audacity of such dealerships especially after the family has gone through an accident.

True that expensive cars don't guarantee safety. You can lose your life in a high end Merc or even escape with minor scratches driving an Alto. It's all about luck at the end of the day.

[neil.jericho]

I cannot fathom how airbags could not be deployed in such an accident. While we encourage our near and dear ones to spend more and buy higher end versions with more airbags, what is the point if they do not function when you need it to?

To make matters worse, it is disheartening to see the poor attitude from the Toyota dealership in such circumstances. If you do not mind, what is the name of the dealership, so others are forewarned?

Also, special thanks to Leoshashi who shared pictures of the Yaris crash where there were no side airbags when they were needed. I too have been recommending the Yaris to one and all solely on the safety net factor, I wont do so going forward.

[VaidhiR]

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

First of all, glad that everyone in your family is doing better. And I wish a speedy recovery to the driver.

But what caught my attention was the part where you said they threatened your father. Are they even allowed to do that? That counts for citizen intimidation and is probably a felony, at the least.

And secondly, why is the dealership bothered about your posts about Toyota? Nowhere (as far as I can see) did you mention the dealer by name?!?

And lastly, I stand corrected in my evaluation of the airbag deployment (or the lack of it) in your case. My experience on restraint systems is based on evaluating tests and simulations under a controlled environment. And if this accident warranted the deployment of side airbags, then the experts are probably right. I am not there quite yet.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

This is the standard good-cop bad-cop routine. Sweet talk first, threats later.
Now that you have written that they threatened you to remove posts from social media platforms, go ahead and name them here in Team-BHP. Lots of prospective buyers visit Team-BHP for reviews and opinion for car-buying decisions. Let the dealership suffer from bad publicity. Serves them right.

[redohabitat]

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Due to the fault of the Hyundai driver, who entered a main road at full speed, through a slip road without looking at traffic coming from behind, unfortunately, our car collided with the other car. The Innova overturned three times before landing to the side of the road. The other driver immediately ran away from the spot.

Have you, or the Hyundai car owner filed a case? I think you should file a case on the Hyundai car owner for negligent & dangerous driving at least and can even try to file one for an attempt to murder.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Yes these can be harmful to the kids, but once again, in Unknown conditions in an Accident, deployment of Airbags will be far safer then Non-Deployment ..period.

^ This is absolutely untrue.

From 1996 to 2000, 191 people, including 116 children, died in cases in which an air bag was or was suspected to be the cause. In many cases, the deaths came in low-speed crashes, in which the force of the deploying air bags proved fatal. - NY Times

Airbag related deaths
- Note how children are the most vulnerable.
- Numbers increased as passenger airbags were popularized.
- Numbers dropped as the technology (and awareness: eg. use child seats) improved.

Source

Originally Posted by venkyhere

Similarly, I wonder if there is a standard "algorithmic criteria" ... This could differ from one carmaker to another.
OR.... woudn't it ?

While the basics must be rather similar, the difference would be in terms of :
a) System set-ups (number of sensors, placements, and even per-model differences)
b) Thresholds (though I'd imagine the threshold windows would be set by certain governing bodies)

And this brings me to the question of whether COST OF REPLACEMENT is in any way factored into these algorithms.

In other words : would you rather let a passenger bump their head on the glass, OR cushion it with the airbag but also cost them an additional Rs. 4 Lakhs in air-bag replacement related costs instead of a bump on the head?

Originally Posted by rrsteer

About 7-8 years back my colleague had a neck fracture, because airbags deployed in has car, when they shouldn't have. It was a case of a mild front end collision at slow speeds.

This is the tricky part...

If the algorithm leans one way, it fractures someones neck, if it leans the other way, customers feel cheated because the airbags didn't deploy.

The very same fellow who fractured his neck could have instead been taking the manufacturer to court right now because the airbag he paid for didn't deploy! (When in fact it did that to save him from breaking his neck).

Originally Posted by apoorv258

Reference from a research paper:

AMAZING! Not a direct correlation to this Innova case, but from a technical standpoint this is a great example of how the sensors work together.

In laymans terms, the collision was hard enough to destroy the bumper, but not enough to cause the occupants to be thrown forward within the cabin.

Bumper sensor said: Deploy! Deploy!!
Second sensor said: Relax, deployment is not required!

Therefore airbags didn't deploy.

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

As for my kids and driver

Really glad to hear they are not seriously injured.

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

"We will call an expert from Bangalore, who will ascertain why the airbags did not open and posed a threat to the occupants inside."

Hopefully there will be recorded sensor data from the crash. Unsure if they will share this with you (or a 3rd party who can interpret it), but there should be enough data there to come to a conclusion of whether it functioned as intended, or there was some sort of fault.

I will admit that there have been an awful lot of Toyota cars with the 'airbags didn't deploy' tagline. So there is a small chance it is a malfunction, or conservative settings on Toyotas part, or just coincidence (and things were working as intended in all cases).

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

This is ridiculous! DEFINITELY inform the higher-ups in Toyota management about this phone call ASAP.

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

they [Toyota] risked the lives of our little children with a very serious safety lapse

Please do also consider looking at it from another point of view: The safety systems that they've built into their car (eg. structural soundness) enabled your loved ones to walk away from a disastrous triple-rollover crash with just minor injuries.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

^ This is absolutely untrue.
[indent][i]From 1996 to 2000, 191 people, including 116 children, died in cases in which an air bag was or was suspected to be the cause. In many cases, the deaths came in low-speed crashes, in which the force of the deploying air bags proved fatal.

We are closer to 2020 than 2000 and it's a known fact that Airbags can be dangerous for the small kids and infants especially if not belted and in the front seats.

From the same article that too in 2000, they have appreciated the benefits as well.

Quote

Although engineers assert that the number of lives saved by air bags is far larger than the number of people killed, and that the severity of injuries has been sharply reduced by airbags, the early deaths caused a backlash against the airbags. UnQuote

[hondatoyotafan]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

A close friend had a nasty crash couple of months back, when a Honda City T Boned his Yaris on Highway. I had recommended him Yaris over Ciaz or City due to its superior build quality and primarily 7 airbags.

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Good Afternoon everyone.

. But I request these companies to not make false promises and charge me an extra 2-3 lakhs for a feature that doesn't guarantee the aforementioned safety.

God Bless!

It is by the sheer grace of god that the kids are OK, our country is filled with far too many idiotic drivers who do not understand how to drive or merge with traffic.
On the other hand looks like there is some issue with the modern toyota's either some takata type issue in airbags or some problem with their airbag deployment systems. I used to have a toyota camry in the US which was tboned by a F150 Pickup truck on the right side. The car just broke up, the only reason i survived was because US is LHD and the right hand side took the brunt of it and no airbags deployed. I was apalled both at the airbags not deploying as well as the build quality because a similar accident happened to a friend in an Acura where the shell held on and the airbags deployed. I pointed the same to the dealer and the company and they washed their hands off by saying the crash was not as severe and speeds were not high etc..

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

Please name and shame this dealer. He has no business running a dealership and given that he represents the company, I will add that Toyota can go to hell for their disgusting tactics.

Toyota's dealers have done this before when a member here complained about water leakages in his Innova and posted a video online. There was much hoohah and they convinced the member to take his video down after fixing the problem.

Fix your damn product Toyota, and tell your PR people to go fly a kite.

[dark.knight]

A lot of back-&-forth with the views, I may not have read through them all and I may not have understood the issue/accident properly but :

1) It is firstly the fault of advertising, and social media in general to assume that any car with the most airbags is the safest, time and again we've seen airbags fail big time in all sorts of vehicles.

2) The company instead of advertising 2/4/6/100 airbags, should advertise or create awareness on how airbags actually work, how many sensors there are and in which situations they should deploy, ideally.

3) The vehicle in question on this thread has rolled over, going by the scratches and crumples on the roof, which means both the sides went down with full body weight at least once, good enough to deploy both sets of side airbags if you ask me.

4) Since weight of passengers vis-a-vis airbag deployment has been brought to the front, it is the duty of Toyota to clarify and confirm the same in writing, which should be admissible in court in which case the customer has no case, falling short of this the customer would automatically win the case.

5) The dealer resorted to thug-like threats to get social media truths removed, this is a first sign that the company and dealer knew their guilt/fault in this and are trying to wash their hands off the matter ASAP.

Clearly the dealer and company are no longer innocent as far as this incident goes. Question is will they give a clear answer as to the fault of the car, or will they run further away from the truth?

[gthang]

@aasheeshchopra, Good to know that your family is okay.
First off, kudos to your young ones for having worn their seat belts. It's not a common habit with kids and appreciate their sensibility.

Lot of chat about airbags doing more harm than good. My understanding of the subject was that the more damage scenario happened usually in cases when the primary restraint, the seatbelt were not being used, resulting in unpredictable body movement.
Awareness and compliance to buckling up, along with smarter seatbelts with pre-tensioners was the reason for the airbag related injuries to come down.

In the OP's case, since occupants were buckled up, don't see how airbag deployment could have done more damage. If anything, the curtain bags could have prevented foreign object entry to cabin, or in this case, spark burn for the driver.

Since I am a Toyota fan, I hope they own up to it and make amends.

Cheers

[kiku007]

Here's a Toyota Prado that hit an animal.







I can see damage to the RHS and the RHS airbags have deployed. But I can't see damage or Airbag deployment on the LHS. Or did I miss anything?

Look at the Crumple Zone and Passenger compartment. Both have done what they are supposed to do.


Source: @aussiewriteoffs

[Ananthc]

Happy to note that the occupants are safe and we need to thank the almighty for this. Kudos to the kids for wearing seat belts as generally in India we always think accidents happen to others and not to us and hence no safety precautions need to be taken!

Coming to the various views posted by our members, from a layman perspective after reading these I feel that consumers aren't educated on when and how the airbag will be deployed during an accident. This has to be squarely blamed on the manufacturers for not educating their sales men who in turn has to train the car buyers.

Secondly the car buyers believe in sales jargon and assume that a car with airbags will safeguard you at all times but alas its only your luck and god's grace which will save you.

Whatever case we file against these manufacturing giants, will be of no use as they will use all technical details to prove that it's not their fault. Hopefully they don't go overboard and state that your accident wasnt similar to how the car was put under standard test conditions and hence you can't blame them!

[mints21]

Shortly afterwards, my father received a call from the dealership and they Threatened my father to remove all online posts and they also mentioned that I had no manners to put up such a post.

Not at all surprising. Having dealt with Castle Toyota a number of times, I can say for sure that they are the worst dealers of Toyota. Unfortunately, those staying in Jalandhar or Amritsar have no option but to visit them or try out Toyota dealer at Ludhiana. Please put in an official complaint to Toyota.

Do not worry about their threats about social media and maintain your ground, they can't dare think of doing harm to you in any way.