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Old 4th December 2019, 18:22   #31
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

I think I’m gonna get a lot of flak for this.
But firstly I fully agree that the safest option would be avoiding night travel altogether. But I think it’s gross injustice and unfair that a productive law abiding citizen has to cower, flee, hide from the perverts and the thugs. I think we should take steps that are offensive too rather than play defence all the time.

I think our fire arm laws should be liberalised. It should be made reasonably possible for any law abiding family with no prior history to buy a fire arm for the safety of himself, his property and family. Maybe we don’t need to go full Texas here. But many countries give regulated fire arm permits to its law abiding citizens. Switzerland comes to my mind immediately. I’m sure there are plenty more. As some wise guy said sometime long ago. An armed society is a more polite society.
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Old 4th December 2019, 18:53   #32
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

For the last 15 years or so we have been driving most of the time at night for cross country travel. There are several advantages -

1. No need to take leave for that day, attend office, take some rest and start at night on the same day
2. Less traffic at night
3. Reach the destination by morning or miday and get the full day at the destination
4. I love driving at night and feel much more relaxed. Can't say why but that is what I am used to

But after seeing this thread I am getting skeptical and scared. I feel what thread starter and others have mentioned make a lot of sense and cannot be brushed aside saying that people are cynical. All it takes is one incident to scar someone for life or worse lose one's life. It is painful that we have come to this situation where seasoned travellers start thinking whether it is worthwhile to travel at night or not
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Old 4th December 2019, 19:08   #33
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
I think our fire arm laws should be liberalised. It should be made reasonably possible for any law abiding family with no prior history to buy a fire arm for the safety of himself, his property and family.
Oh man, no. Just think about it, if it becomes easier for you to get a gun, it'll be as easy for the guy who's trying to make trouble for you to have one. And once it becomes easier to get weapons, there are going to be even more loopholes to make it even easier for the wrong sort of people to acquire them. That's just going to make things worse, not better.

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
But after seeing this thread I am getting skeptical and scared.
I mean, I think it's more the factor of our roads, lighting, inadequate signage, improperly conducted road digging without enough warning, sleepy drivers that are more of a concern with night driving than dangerous people on the road.

My wife and I have toured a lot throughout the country both on the bike and the car. We've experienced the kindness and concern of strangers so many times, I am convinced that the vast majority of people in our country (especially outside cities!) are good. Especially when you are going through their area on a bike, somehow that makes you seem more approachable than when you're in a car. Several times, people have been helpful precisely because there was a lady with me, am sure they would not have been that helpful if I was alone or if we were two guys travelling.

But yeah, even if I was alone or with a few male friends, I wouldn't drive/ride at night, IMO our roads because of the condition they are in, are too risky for that.

Last edited by am1m : 4th December 2019 at 19:17.
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Old 4th December 2019, 19:56   #34
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Oh man, no. Just think about it, if it becomes easier for you to get a gun, it'll be as easy for the guy who's trying to make trouble for you to have one. And once it becomes easier to get weapons, there are going to be even more loopholes to make it even easier for the wrong sort of people to acquire them. That's just going to make things worse, not better
The guy who want to hurt me will 100 % try to hurt me.That is a constant in this equation and a guarantee. Chances are he might already have a gun that’s unlawfully obtained or local made if not another weapon because of course he doesn’t care about the existing laws because he is a criminal. So what’s the point of me not having anything at all? How will that make me safer? Coz I can tell you this, if you have seen you would know that I won’t be winning any fist fights/ knife fights anytime soon. With a firearm of my own however there is atleast a chance or possibility of deterrence instead of ending up being a punching bag and eventually roadkill.

Last edited by nakul0888 : 4th December 2019 at 19:59.
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Old 4th December 2019, 20:04   #35
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

Unfortunate that we need to discuss this thing. It is sad day in the democracy where you need to hide to save ourselves from the deteriorating law and order situation.
I avoid night driving in India for safety concerns and too many morons on the road in the night increases chances of getting hurt. But the 50% population of the country have to live always under constant fear of trauma that they might face if they want to live like normal free human.

It is almost impossible to fix the root cause unless we get the Government with the will of changing this. The fix is in the 3 basic principles of successful countries, Education, Law and Order, Healthcare.

We can discuss this rant forever but I doubt nothing will come out. Till then it is better to avoid night drives.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 4th December 2019 at 20:06.
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Old 4th December 2019, 20:29   #36
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Oh man, no. Just think about it, if it becomes easier for you to get a gun, it'll be as easy for the guy who's trying to make trouble for you to have one.
The real trouble, people who are on wrong side of law find ways to get their hands on some kind of firearms. If not there will not be so many cases registered in arms act.

I do agree if the laws are made less strict, there will be more loopholes and also more trouble.

People who want to assess security situation from cultural lens are free to do so at their own peril. Being a keyboard warrior is much easier than bringing change in society. When a significant portion is hell bent on hiding behind some fiction of eliminating crime by banning it, there is no chance of opening their eyes or minds.

Just a thought, after decriminalization of article 377, there will come a time when these measures now being discussed will become necessary for male travelers also.

Be safe, teach yourself and family members about recognizing danger and maintain enhanced level of attentiveness to mitigate threat.
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Old 4th December 2019, 20:35   #37
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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
...

1. No need to take leave for that day, attend office, take some rest and start at night on the same day
2. Less traffic at night
3. Reach the destination by morning or miday and get the full day at the destination
4. I love driving at night and feel much more relaxed. Can't say why but that is what I am used to
..
Even I love night drives for the exact same reasons + I can't stand the bright day light. I've become nocturnal in true sense. In fact all of my drives happen only in the night and I usually start at/after 12AM. Perfect time to drive 400+ kms before the day break.

Will I stop night drives altogether - answer is Nope! But I'll be extra careful from now on like:
1. Avoiding few ultra deserted roads
2. If the territory is unfamiliar, probably trail a bus and ditch the GMaps

But all/many of these precautions take the fun/relaxing factor away with night drives!


PS: When I refer to drives - it includes drives with my wife/family and friends.
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Old 4th December 2019, 20:40   #38
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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
Unfortunate that we need to discuss this thing. It is sad day in the democracy where you need to hide to save ourselves from the deteriorating law and order situation.
I avoid night driving in India for safety concerns and too many morons on the road in the night increases chances of getting hurt.
I am not sure if safety is at same level in Germany as it used to be, specially when police there is now more inclined to hide certain crimes. Same has been happening in UK for more than a decade now.

The issue is not with government or more precisely the elected part of the government. Quick delivery of justice is the only known deterrence to crime. This unfortunately is not something that interests judiciary here. There are more interesting issues to handle; like what kind of technology should be used for transportation, what to do with firecrackers once a year and the list goes on.
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Old 5th December 2019, 00:13   #39
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

I think the best way to travel in India is leave early and not drive too much beyond dusk.

Women (in the car) or not, Indian highways are dangerous and lawless at night and anyone with a personal car is a potential target. Having women in the car makes for a more likely target. That being said, if travel is a must, I'd prefer known National Highways with high traffic density. Bangaolre-Chennai (via Krishnagiri, Vellore) is probably more safer than Bangalore-Tirupathi. Toll Plazas, reputed restaurants are good a good spot to stop and rest. Keeping valuables and jewelry out of sight is a must. For those emergencies, keep a heavy duty flashlight (no, NOT your mobile device) with a strobe mode.

The last thing attackers like is to be identified. Any powerful light or sound will drive them away. Also keep a pepper spray. Do not show any weapon like a bat, rod etc. These will make them more aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Create a new thread like "TBHP Emergency Road Help" or similar. If a member is in trouble on the road he can request the community for help.
I think there are too many legal implications of such a service. Members who know fellow members in the area can contact them via phone/whatsapp.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 5th December 2019 at 00:14.
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Old 5th December 2019, 07:33   #40
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

IMHO the risks far outweigh the benefits of driving at night. This goes for drivers, passengers, pedestrians, animals etc. irrespective of their gender.

I guess people who can drive safely at night for long hours are superhuman. I just cannot do it.

On my recent trip from Chennai to Pondy, I noticed that some sections have medians with two lanes in each direction. To my absolute horror, they have pedestrian crossings on this 80 kmph speed limit road. This is a road design failure at the highest order. I don't know how drivers could notice a pedestrian and stop in time during the night.

Also, I wanted to take a pit stop at Cafe Coffee Day but some of the outlets looked empty. Considering the recent history of the group, I wasn't sure if they were open for business but didn't have customers or if they were closed. I see this as a pontential risk. Anti-social elements could take over abandoned outlets.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:20   #41
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

Picking your routes and pit stops is very critical, still would advise young couples to avoid night driving. I would not recommend trips beyond 1000km for any newbie. The availability of route maps has made it easy to think of night drives. I see the recent incident in Hyderabad as a motivation to develop a new self defence product for women.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:21   #42
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Originally Posted by SS80 View Post
I agree to every thing you posted above, except for the sharp object or knife part. As in case of a emergency, the same tool if lands in the wrong hands, we ourselves would be bringing more trouble on ourselves. Unless you are really comfortable using it and if you are well built, to avoid getting over powered.
If you carry a knife (or get a gun license and carry a pistol) make sure you're good at using it, or else it'll simply be snatched away from you and you'll get hurt worse. The same with trying to punch assailants without having some sort of boxing or martial arts training, the typical software engineer type (me included) will simply get bashed up worse. Pepper spray or Mace is a safe alternative.

You need a bit of a history lesson I am afraid. This is entirely off topic to the discussion so I will keep it brief, and away from politics.

The areas you describe (not just Mewar, but large parts of Haryana etc) still have a flourishing countrymade pistol (katta) cottage industry so I am not sure banning metalworking there was all that bad an idea.

The British did their own recruitment since the 1500s so that there were several hereditary military service families especially in certain communities with a military tradition (Sikhs, Rajputs, Mahars, Jats, Kodavas ..). Gandhiji did have a hope back then that India supporting the British in the war would lead to "Home Rule" or "Dominion Status" (similar to Australia, with a greater amount of self governance) but revised that opinion soon after World War 1.

The edge the British had was training army officers in strategy and training soldiers, British and Sepoy alike, to use volley fire (three to four aimed shots a minute using muzzle loading weapons back during the 19th century). That, and excellent artillery and a powerful navy.

Indian rajas for the most part had swords and spears, or antiquated firearms, armies created by calling up all their able bodied subjects to turn up and fight (no standing army), and very little artillery - the East India Company and after them the Crown were quite careful to whom they sold or allowed others to sell modern firearms and artillery. Exceptions to the rule were for example the Sikhs under Ranjit Singh and Mysore under Hyder Ali / Tipu Sultan, and the Maratha Confederacy, where they engaged European officers - often Frenchmen and Italians, or deserters from the English side - to manufacture modern weapons and train their infantry, cavalry and artillery. These had several victories and the British were in general wary of taking on, for example, the Sikhs.

The "cowardly Indians" phrase was more like the British originally recruited their troops for the most part from a very small set of communities and regarded others as not sufficiently martial enough. And even there they had a prejudice (probably informed by many victories over unprofessionally run and disorganized local armies) that Indian troops would only be useful when professionally trained and under European commanders. In other cases, where the 1857 mutiny was particularly severe in some parts (eg the Bengal army was the first to join the mutiny) the British simply stopped recruiting from there for several years.

Gandhiji did convince many people from outside these communities to join the British Indian Army for World War 1 - and that had the sort of indirect benefit that today our armed forces can now recruit from across all of India, and even the community named regiments are quite homogenous now. The Indian army still does recruit based on region and language rather than caste for several regiments for "cultural cohesion" reasons. However there are still some exceptions such as the Presidential Bodyguard which accepts only Jats, Jat Sikhs and Rajputs, and this has been the subject of more than one lawsuit (eg earlier this year, https://www.news18.com/news/india/co...t-1992713.html)

There's a much longer story to be told but

1. It is not on topic for this thread and

2. Please avoid trying to make this all about Gandhiji, the story is much more complex and some of the themes you mention predate him by several decades. You'll need to do a bit more research.

Last edited by GTO : 6th December 2019 at 09:43. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 5th December 2019, 10:53   #43
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Default Re: Highway safety at night for female drivers & passengers

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
How?

Create a new thread like "TBHP Emergency Road Help" or similar. If a member is in trouble on the road he can request the community for help.
Your idea is good , but I frankly don't think it will work.
Instead we should have some professional setup, let me try to explain.

For eg : If you are doing Mumbai -Pune at Day/night, there should be some agency which can provide you cover during the entire ride. Its like Term insurance. You take a package, but don't get a refund if services are not used.

It could be a good venture ,since people are willing to pay minimal amount if it guarantees safety for them.

Ideas : Once your car starts the journey, the agency will track you till you complete the route. This can be done by waypoints ( Like on flight paths ), this ensures your safety even when cellphone network is not working. So if you don't cross a waypoint in certain time, it raises a flag and you get help without even asking.

Last edited by silverado : 5th December 2019 at 10:55.
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Old 5th December 2019, 11:38   #44
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Ideas : Once your car starts the journey, the agency will track you till you complete the route. This can be done by waypoints ( Like on flight paths ), this ensures your safety even when cellphone network is not working. So if you don't cross a waypoint in certain time, it raises a flag and you get help without even asking.
Didnít HVK offer a service of this sort? Maybe not as useful on Mumbai to Pune trips but extremely useful when going to jungle resorts or hill stations, Ladakh, North East etc.
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Old 5th December 2019, 14:08   #45
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I am a 60 year old female and have been car camping since 1986, earlier in our Ambassador and now in our Creta. I was always accompanied by my husband and now by my son. Touchwood, never faced any issue as I have always trusted my instincts. However, some rules that I follow during night drives is to always park the car at large well-lit state-owned and state-run fuel stations, police stations, circuit houses, etc. Government properties are comparatively more secure than private ones. Having a visible dashcam acts as a deterrent and can prevent multiple issues. There are also multiple devices available for self-defense. Also, it helps if you show subtle signs of being tough. If you are travelling to unknown places, always ask for directions from uniformed government personnel even if you have google maps and/or know the direction. Try to make a habit of mentally noting ingress and egress points wherever you go. Teaching kids to sing, dance, etc is important but teaching them self-defence is more important especially for girls ...
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