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Old 21st May 2020, 10:34   #16
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

I agree with Jeroen!

Defensive driving techniques is what is required. Not an absolute limit on speed. Which means, on certain sections of the Autobahn, even 220kmph might be safe depending on the car.

I wonder what Volvo Germany is planning to do though.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:00   #17
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Sorry, I must be the only one here that does not get it. In fact I have no idea on what the good folks at Volvo have been smoking.

Limiting a car speed to 180 km/h is going to reduce the number of fatalities?
Very interesting point. Maybe insurance companies paying a role here?

Let's assume I'm driving a mass-market tin box on Indian roads and an incapacitated driver behind the wheel of a Volvo is speeding. With the 180 km/h limit, there's time for the autonomous emergency braking to work effectively. Result: a collision could be avoided and my life could be saved.

Compare the same scenario with another car equipped with similar braking hardware but not the speed limiter. A crash might result in death/serious injury and costly insurance third-party insurance payments.

Agreed that one may see another ice age before something like the above mentioned incident happens, but the combination of a speed limiter and active safety systems can really reduce insurance premiums for a car.

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What we need is dynamic speed limiting. To ensure in any given situation people cant speed or drive too fast. That takes a bit more then an electronic max speed limiter.

Jeroen
Very difficult to implement with 100% accuracy.

That's the reason there is a human behind the steering wheel to judge the conditions and accordingly alter the speed. Turns out, many of them are distracted and a few of them are drunk or reckless.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 22nd May 2020 at 11:03.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:20   #18
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
. With the 180 km/h limit, there's time for the autonomous emergency braking to work effectively.
Wont make a blind bit of difference whether he was doing 240 km/h or a 180 km/h.

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Very difficult to implement with 100% accuracy.
All the technology is already available, it is dead easy. Simpler version are operating all over the world. Dynamic speed control is enforced on several motorways here in the Netherlands. The maximum speed varies according to the amount of traffic, weather, all sorts of things and is displayed on gantries above the motorway. Automatic speed and automatic average speed checks are built in as well, so if you don’t keep to the indicated speed you will, all fully automatic get a speeding ticket! I can tell you nobody speeds, nobody ignores it! It is also sign posted, so even the foreigners are aware.

You will these system all over Europe motorways. In many cases you will find them on main city ring roads.

The next step is to actually control the max speed of each individual vehicle by setting a specific speed. Say you approach a school zone. During the hours of the day that the kids arrive / leave the system set a max speed 15 km/h on just a few hundred meters of road near the school. Again, all the technology exist, but this still needs implementing. The simple part is the implementation within the car system. The infrastructure outside the car is a bit more complex. But with for instance 5G being rolled out, this becomes totally feasible.

It is more a political choice than anything else. With it comes, as always, privacy concerns, etc.

Jeroen
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:27   #19
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

This probably does not affect most of us here in India. Very few roads which are safe at any speed above 140 kph even with virtually no other traffic, and when combined with the presence of trucks moving at 30 or 40 kph even on expressways, even 120 kph is risky.

What worries me is the principle - we already have ridiculous beeps in new cars above 120 kph, and 80kph limits for cars registered as taxis, what stops the GOI from imposing a 120 kph or 80 kph limit on all cars sold in India?

Agree with Jeroen that safe driving based on conditions matters than absolute speed - I have driven (in a Volvo) at this 190 kph in Germany - was driving in the slow lane at that speed, was overtaken by others from time to time, and did not have to brake in a hurry even once during close to 1200 km of driving in Germany. So with good roads and trained drivers, you certainly can drive at close to 200 kph very safely.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 12:02   #20
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Wont make a blind bit of difference whether he was doing 240 km/h or a 180 km/h.
The main reason behind such is move that I can think of is the bold statement that Volvo made regarding the safety of its vehicles. They had announced that there will be no fatalities in its vehicle and looking at the current technology available, it is not possible to achieve this at higher speeds. Hence they have decided to limit the top speed.

The current generation of sensors and systems have limitations and will not be able to handle higher speed or rather their effectiveness comes down as speed increases. I believe full speed AEB is limited to 180 kmph and city AEB to 80kmph
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Old 22nd May 2020, 12:35   #21
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

Just had some more ideas.

- Maybe Volvo's market research shows that the person who would buy a "speed limited" car wouldn't be a rash driver in the first place. It indicates a certain mindset.

- They perhaps know that your chances of surviving a crash at 180 kmph are "x percentage" higher than one at 250 kmph where it will be pretty much 0.x?

I still insist this is the company warming up to the idea and testing the response. They will go lower if the market accepts + competitors follow.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 13:34   #22
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

Very good initiative by Volvo. Although, I saw a lot of people getting mad at this in Instagram comments. Quoting some of the comments I can remember- "A 10-15 lakh rupee car can do more than 180kmph" , "If I pay for the car, let me drive at whatever speed I want" , and many others claiming the ridiculous high speeds they have done here in India. But can you even compare the time taken by a Volvo and a 10 lakh rupee car to reach 180kmph? Also, I don't think prospective buyers of a Volvo wouldn't mind the speed limit. The Care key is a practical thought too.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:03   #23
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

Volvo setting up speed limiter is step in the right direction, maybe that will put a stop on pushing vehicles hard.

However the bigger question is why do we have to plonk in powerful engines that go beyond 180 when we have to put a limiter for its safe use.

Are engines producing more than 150bhp really necessary for our current needs both in terms of performance and safety, why put in v8s or turbo v6 when we have to put a limiter to control it. This feels like big American sedans of 60ss who performed not better than 2 litre 4 cylinder cars.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:47   #24
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

Volvo wanted to showcase their commitment to safety through this move.

On the other hand, you could also say that Volvo is trying to get off the German induced horsepower wars through the past few decades.

Afterall, legally other than the Autobahns can't point out any public roads where you can legally touch the top speed limits of most cars.

And the biggest point. Just look at Volvo-Geelys current engine lineup.
1.5l, 2.0l engines that can be boosted or assisted to reach 400bhp, but for the most part are under 200bhp.

So just saying. We are here for safe cars. If you want fast cars, please subscribe to our Polestar plan package

About the 180km/h limit.

If they were so much concerned of safety they should have put a 120-140km/h speed limit. Cause that's the highest legal speed limit anywhere in the world (except deserted stretches in the gelf and northern Australia) and anyway most safety features work optimally till 100km/h.

But if they had put some sub 150km/h speed limit, it would have turned off even ordinary motorists.

Cause, face the truth. Legal or not, most long highway journeys are done sitting at 130-140km/h, even if at limited stretches including in India.

But 180km/h + is like speed junkie zone. Maybe once or twice to check the top speed. That's it.
Most motorists wouldn't even think of crossing 140km/h+ for normal journeys.

So there it is.
180km/h.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:52   #25
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
I recall something similar with Motorcycles.
Also in 1980s Japanese automakers had a gentleman agreement to not produce any cars that made more than 280 HP, they started building better engines but the power was rated to 280 HP.

This was later stopped as few studies in Japan were not able to establish a strong correlation between high speed driving and road accidents.

Last edited by aah78 : 22nd May 2020 at 17:11. Reason: Post fixed. Quote trimmed, typos.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 18:33   #26
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

In my opinion, connected cars are the way forward to enforce speed limits. Imagine if your car's speed is constantly monitored by a computer and the data is used by enforcement agencies, there would be no need to have speed guns and cops standing dangerously on the sides of our highways.

Specific to India, I think the government should have enforced speed limiters for all cars at 120 kmph. It is needed, unfortunately. Just log into Instagram and see how some people brag about achieving top speeds of their cars with their IgTV videos, most are from Punjab/Haryana. Some of them are small cars like Swift. Last I saw a bunch of men in a German car firing a pistol through the sun-roof while the guy records it in slow motion
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Old 22nd May 2020, 19:40   #27
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

While I am not trying to promote high speeds, I feel there shouldn't be such speed limiters on any car. If you are going to limit the top speed, they you may limit the price as well. I wouldn't want to buy a car worth 50 lac+ knowing that it has been electronically limited to a certain top-speed. I may never even go above 120kmph but at-least I will be knowing that my car can go way beyond 120kmph, if required.
Manufacturers have to come up with better options regarding road-safety with things like connected car tech, driver assist tech etc.

IMO, If you really want to limit to 180kmph then come up with an Engine which doesn't go beyond 180kmph mechanically but has similar performance and higher efficiency at a much lesser price point.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 22:40   #28
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Wont make a blind bit of difference whether he was doing 240 km/h or a 180 km/h.
I quite agree that this 180 km/h limit is really not going to save any lives. Let's agree to disagree on the performance of the electronic safety systems.

I don't know the exact technical specifications of their LIDARs, RADARs, cameras, onboard computers, and all other hardware & software, but I guess they have a much higher chance of preventing an accident when traveling under 180 km/h. Every split second mattes and a combination of sensing, detection, CV (Computer Vision) processing, and application of a brake are all not instantaneous.

Remember:
90 km/h = 25 m/s
180 km/h = 50 m/s
240 km/h = 66.67 m/s

For half a second, the difference in the distance traveled between 180 km/h & 240 km/h is 8.33m.

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All the technology is already available, it is dead easy. Simpler version are operating all over the world. Dynamic speed control is enforced on several motorways here in the Netherlands.

The next step is to actually control the max speed of each individual vehicle by setting a specific speed. Say you approach a school zone....

It is more a political choice than anything else. With it comes, as always, privacy concerns, etc.
I'm a firm believer that nobody can't save people from their own stupidity.

You've answered it yourself- I DON'T want big brother to start start controlling my speed. Such technology is also expensive to implement in a foolproof manner. Instead, the easier way is driver education & traffic calming devices like chicanes. I consider myself a responsible driver and drop my speed when the situation requires me to.

When my dad taught me to drive on the undivided state highways (with no signage) in India, he'd ask me to drop my speed in towns to 30-40 km/h from the usual 70-80 km/h. Even if not signposted, a town is easily identifiable with a more electricity poles, higher density of houses, parked vehicles, and more stray animals.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 22nd May 2020 at 22:45.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 23:11   #29
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Let's agree to disagree on the performance of the electronic safety systems.
As they say, stay with the program Mac: More complex stuff is happening already: Platooning is happening as we speak!

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publicat...ng_roadmap.pdf

Speed control is peanuts compared to this! Just requires political will, we have the technology.


Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
I don't know the exact technical specifications of their LIDARs, RADARs, cameras, onboard computers, and all other hardware & software, but I guess they have a much higher chance of preventing an accident when traveling under 180 km/h. Every split second mattes and a combination of sensing, detection, CV (Computer Vision) processing, and application of a brake are all not instantaneous.
I bet they are much more accurate and faster than most humans!

Most research put’s average driver response time at at least 1,5 - 2.5 seconds.

(E.g. https://copradar.com/redlight/factors/IEA2000_ABS51.pdf)

Although all of us would believe we are responding immediately. This is simply not the case.

Even at a Volvo sedate 180 km/h that means you would have travelled well over 100 meters before you would have hit the brake!

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 22nd May 2020 at 23:17.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 23:55   #30
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Default Re: All Volvo cars now come with a 180 km/h speed limiter

IMO, irrespective of where and how well you drive, if things were to go wrong god forbid, even speeds of 130 kmph can cause irreparable damage forget 180 kmph. So don't agree with this limit rationale.

Last edited by SmartCat : 23rd May 2020 at 22:42. Reason: Speeding reference
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