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Old 2nd June 2020, 05:58   #16
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Default re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial loss?

I assume the rider is your close friend when you decided to make a claim even though he offered to pay the full amount without a claim. Sounds like he's a wonderful person. As a big-hearted person who chose to go the insurance route to reduce the financial burden on your friend, it'd be cheap to ask him to foot the bill for slightly higher insurance premiums.

Request you to consider this incident as an opportunity to strengthen the friendship. If not now, the friend will help you when you need it the most.
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Originally Posted by Fury View Post
Secondly, on reading the estimate provided by the service center, there are considerable repairs to be done on the bike. Will this in anyway affect the character of the bike? Should I be expecting issues to crop up now, which, again, is due to somebody else's driving? What should be the reasonable expectation from him regarding this whole situation and when is it too much for me to ask?
I'm guessing you should have evaluated the decision to repair the motorcycle before it was actually serviced. I wouldn't be too comfortable with bent frames and handlebars, but most other parts should be fixable by any service center.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 06:46   #17
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Default re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial loss?

This incident remonds me of an accident which happened a few months ago. Right in front of my office an auto crashed into a brand new BMW 7 series head on. The auto guy was coming from the wrong side. Although the speed was slow yet he managed to damage the bumper, headlight and a part of the bonnet. The car guy came out and was literally in tears as he had borrowed the car from a friend. I felt really bad for him when he called the car owner to inform about the accident and damage.

In your case I would advice you to pay the premium and try to move on because you friend was man enough to own up the responsibility of the crash and ready to pay for the damage.
Friendship is more valuable that a few grands. As fellow bhpian suggested, use this as an excuse to say no when someone asks for your vehicle.
Ride safe buddy
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:37   #18
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Default re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial loss?

If someone borrowed my car and damaged it, I expect them to make good on the financial losses. This would be the case even if I borrowed someone's car. If you cause a loss of any kind to somebody you care about, you must step in and cover it.

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I generally have the habit of lending my vehicles to friends when requested, even though I am not completely happy about it.
If you aren't happy, then you MUST SAY NO. If you can't say a blatant no, make excuses and refuse the first 2 or 3 times. They will get the hint.

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Now, over the past few weeks, I have been considering many points about this incident. Primarily, my insurance is due next month and when I checked, the premium has gone up quite a bit, technically due to no fault of mine (some might say lending him the bike was my fault but I don't think i deserve a monetary penalization for that! ). Should I ask him to pay the premium for this year or is that too much to ask?
Be frank with him. Tell him that the premium has gone up significantly, you are having second thoughts and would like him to pay.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:15   #19
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury View Post
Now, over the past few weeks, I have been considering many points about this incident. Primarily, my insurance is due next month and when I checked, the premium has gone up quite a bit, technically due to no fault of mine (some might say lending him the bike was my fault but I don't think i deserve a monetary penalization for that! ). Should I ask him to pay the premium for this year or is that too much to ask?

Secondly, on reading the estimate provided by the service center, there are considerable repairs to be done on the bike. Will this in anyway affect the character of the bike? Should I be expecting issues to crop up now, which, again, is due to somebody else's driving? What should be the reasonable expectation from him regarding this whole situation and when is it too much for me to ask?
Everytime we start driving or riding, there is an inherent risk of an accident which we all are aware of and are hopefully prepared for. As far as personal safety goes, we belt up & choose the best riding gear possible. When it comes to the vehicle - that's what insurance is for. So when you're lending your vehicle, you're doing so with the risk of a mishap, which your machine is insured for.

The way I see it, your friend was close enough to you for you to lend your bike for a 500+ km journey! Do you really want to jeopardize that over a few thousand bucks? The fact that he offered to pay the whole amount and not claim insurance tells me that he is a genuine guy! Also, how would you feel if your friend refuses to claim insurance and asks you to pay up if the roles were reversed?

As far as the motorcycle is concerned, post accident repair one cannot expect factory fit & finish. That is something which you need to learn to live with. The same could have happened when you were riding or in case of a hit & run when your bike was parked!

My advice - claim insurance. Ask your friend if he can pay whatever extra needs to be paid. Take this as a learning experience and move on!

Addendum: Please use this story as an example for not lending your vehicles out in the future.

Last edited by Geo_Ipe : 2nd June 2020 at 10:22.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 13:41   #20
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Interesting thread, thanks for starting this.

If anything it also provides food for thought as to whom you lent a vehicle to.

I would say, I would only lent any of my cars to a friend of whom I would be certain he/she would pay for all damages without having to ask for it.

Whether I would accept that is a different matter all together. I think for me it is more the thought that counts. If they are clearly upset on having damaged the car, even though it might not be through a fault of their own.

Many years ago I lend my W123 to American Friends of ours who were visiting us in the Netherlands. The wanted to tour a bit through Germany for a few days and needed a car. So I gave them the keys to the W123.

In Germany, whilst stopped for a red light, some little Japanese car ploughed into the back of the W123. It was driven by a local priest. Which shows that even with divine guidance, you still need to watch the road yourself!

Anyway the priest had a lot of damage to his car. The bumper on the W123 was a bit out of allignement, rubber slightly damaged. Tom was very very upset. Not his fault at all. He was insisting for paying all damage to my W123, increase on the insurance premium etc.

In the end I waived it all of, because I managed to fix it all by myself at minimum cost. But I think what counts is the fact that he was so clearly upset and went out of his way to help me out.

How much you actually ask a friend to pay is very personal and also up to the situation. (In all honesty, I would not worry about a bit of increase in insurance premium)

if you feel comfortable lending a car to one of your friends, without having a discussion up front on who pays for damages, you probably have a good friendship and things will work out regardless.

Slightly different note: Here in the Netherlands speeding fines from automatic speed controls/camera will go to the registered owner and he/she needs to pay, irrespective who was actually driving the car.

The other day we received a speeding fine on the Fiesta of my wife. We checked the date and location and were pretty sure it was not either one of us. We do lend this car to the kids and sure enough it was our daughter. She paid us immediately. But or course ever since she is known as “speedy Gonzales Ellen” within our family. She will never live it down, even though she was only speeding with a few km over the limit.

Jeroen
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Old 2nd June 2020, 15:10   #21
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

He is not a very close friend or not just an aquaintence. If it was either, you wouldn't have faced any dilema in taking a decision. He is a not very close friend, but not too distant also.

Assume you don't discuss with him about the damage and you take up the cost. What can happen in the future?
1) He and you may become close. Then you would feel good that you didn't spoil it by asking him the money. +10
2) He doesn't become close or even drifter further away in terms of friendship. In that case you may feel little bitter, thinking he took advantage of you or you were too nice to an undeserving fellow. The bitterness won't be as intense, you may even forget it when you get more money or bigger bike. Anyway there is a chance of bitterness. Let's say -8.

Now, see the case if you ask him for the money.
3) Again you may become close friends and there you feel bad. Oh I shouldn;t have asked him that money - this will keep on coming to you whenever he does a good thing for you. This bad feeling -10.
4) You guys don't become closer. Same or even more distant. You don't feel bitter, not too happy also. May be little bit 'good that i took money from him for that accident'.. Say +5.

You are a good guy, can't say NO to people asking to borrow your bike. You may even think it was your fault (of asking money) if he moves away from your friendship [scenario 2 or 4].

To me it is obvious what to do.
+10-8 = +2
-10+5 = -5
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Old 2nd June 2020, 17:42   #22
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

My view is as follows:

If I am giving my vehicle, I do so with the full understanding that something can go wrong, there can be an accident or damage etc. With that out of the way, the next question would be what would I do when that happens. I would expect the person who took it, volunteer to pay for the damages and at least exhibit some remorse at what happened. This has also happened in your case.

Now the key question is how do you handle the cost for repairs. 3 Options
  • Claiming insurance and be done with it. You took this approach. Now you have the remorse that your NCB is gone and premium has bumped up.
  • Ask the friend to pay for it and do not claim insurance. No loss to you.
  • Don't claim insurance, maybe split the cost 50-50.(With respect to my first point, if you give it to someone, you fully well know that things can go wrong)

None of these are wrong choices. Considering you have gone with option 1, I don't think you should now go back and revisit this around the insurance premium bump up. The good will you have earned from your friend with the approach will help you in some way some time.

If I was on the other side, I would insist on option 2 and pay for it. I would not be comfortable letting someone I am close to (close enough to ask for a vehicle) get into a monetary loss because of me.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 2nd June 2020 at 17:46.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 17:54   #23
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Imagine if this has happened with your car while being driven by driver. Would you have asked driver to pay for it?

He was very kind and he already asked you if he has to pay but you had gone for insurance route. Be a man of your word now. Pay the difference amount from your pocket.

Consider these things as an investment to build robust relationship and no matter how high you are, never ever make your friend realize that you had paid for his fault.

Sometimes people ask for my vehicle and I can't say no them ever. I keep my insurances comprehensive and I have a beater car which I happily keep lending to friends.

Last edited by dicor : 2nd June 2020 at 18:00.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 22:39   #24
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Money should not come between relationships, I would not give my vehicle to random friends. But if I am giving my vehicle to any of my friend that simply means he is a good friend of mine.

I will not hesitate to say no in all other cases.

But what if my friend met with an accident, in that case it is quite clear that he himself will pay whatever amount it comes after insurance(like your friend already did). But I will never ever ask him for money lost in NCB, that sounds cheap in friendship. Friends or better say close friends are like family, think of a scenario if this would have been done by anyone in your family. If you doesn't count him your close friend then I would again say it is your mistake, you should have not given him bike in first instance and it is time you learn how to say NO to people.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 22:52   #25
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

There isn't a bad choice here. If you ask for money, it sounds like the guy is happy to pay you. If you prefer to take the hit financially, I'm sure your friend will be grateful to you for your generosity and that strengthens a friendship.

In the long run, this is an inconsequential incident, no matter what you do.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 09:08   #26
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Thankfully I’m a well acknowledged car guy among my circle and people know how finicky I’m when it comes to maintaining cars. So no requests on the car front and even if it’s comes, I’m pretty sure I can turn it down.

Now coming to the point, if you both have agreed on a certain amount, he already covered all the costs and this insurance wasn’t discussed in the beginning, I’d advice you NOT to go back and ask for more money. He too will be reeling in loses and it’s only fair to expect some slack from a good friend. However let him know that you’ve paid the extra costs incurred for insurance. If he indeed is a good friend and a man of his word, he will pay you the additional costs without you asking for it.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:03   #27
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

As someone who have borrowed cars and have given my cars, I have come across such situation once. It was not exactly borrowed, we had given the car key to the neighbor to switch on the car once a week so that the battery charge doesn’t go down. They took the car out for a joy ride without informing and ended up in accident, they wanted to go the insurance route, which we refused. Coming to your instance, if I were the one who caused the accident, I would pay for the repairs if it’s not a big amount. If it’s too big an amount I would pay for the hike in insurance premium if the other person agrees.

Accidents happen accidentally, friendships do happen accidentally! As an extrovert who has only 2 real friends in life, I value friendship very much, much much above money. Easy to lose a real friend than to gain one. Whom most of us think as friends are only acquaintances to be honest. If your’s is a friend the money should be the last thing to bother about.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:17   #28
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

Bikes are bought and sold. Friends aren't.

First of all, the entire incident was no fault of your friends. Accidents happen all the time and more so in India due to driving discipline of fellow Indians. Similar accident can happen to anyone,including you yourself.

Also what is done is done. No point crying over it.


Future course of action:-

1. Get your bike repaired using Zero-Dep insurance.
2. Your friend is willing to pay for the repairs, which he should anyway. Ask him to pay marginal insurance charges + difference of premium + Loss of NCB.
3. Ride the bike for sometime to observe a change in riding behavior, stability, braking etc. Nothing should change unless the chasis itself is deformed. It is next to impossible to repair 100% the damage to chasis.
4. If the chasis is gone wrong, sell it off and buy a new one.

Since it is your bike, there is no escaping the fact that you will have to bear some amount of burnt, no matter what. Your friend can pay upfront for fixed and known charges (repair+insurance difference etc) , but what about the unknowns (resale, stability, fun factor) ? And be more careful in lending you things, learn to say "NO". You might shrug off a few acquaintances in the process but then they were of no help anyway. Real friends won't mind, trust me.

Last edited by Heart_Revs : 3rd June 2020 at 11:19. Reason: grammer
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:44   #29
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

There are 2 perspectives for this:
1. Rational(Financial):

- For borrowing, I have this straightforward approach to this: "I borrow it, I pay for it. Be it fuel, repairs, wash before returning". No diversions from the policy.
- For Lending, I have already built no lending rule right from my college days- not even to my best friends and all of them are aware of it. If you HAVE to, a gentle reminder like, please return it in the same condition - should suffice.
- In case of damages, the borrower has to get it in the same condition and return.

2. Emotional:

- Now that you've already agreed to go via the insurance route - don't ask for payment again for relation's sake.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 12:23   #30
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Default Re: Vehicle involved in an accident while it was lent to a friend - Should he cover the financial lo

This is exactly why I lend my car/bike only to people who can afford any repair bills. So a polite NO to the little cousin who is in college but YES to his brother who is employed and is more responsible. I have never been in your shoes but I would expect them to foot the additional insurance premium.

Last edited by nair : 3rd June 2020 at 12:29.
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