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Old 12th November 2020, 00:44   #226
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Wasn't this long overdue? Cars that are loaded to the gills are bound to cut corners somewhere else, especially in a brutally competitive industry and that too in India.

I was quite impressed with Seltos/Creta's interiors and features, which honestly made my 2016 Octavia's interior look plain jane. But this rating settles everything.

Hyundai has no clue how to sell premium cars in India but boy I wasn't aware of the fact they are equally bad at making safe cars for India.

Here is our story:

Back in 2016, when we were in the market to buy a car - we were ready to stretch our budget of 20 lacs for Tucson and even booked it. The delays in delivery and the lackluster dealer attitude made me cancel the booking and go back to picking from my previous options, Jetta or Octavia. A few months later, Jetta was discontinued.

The lure of Elantra's fancy features at 3 lac lesser price ( as compared to Octavia) pulled it back in the fray. I paid a visit to the dealer again to discuss Elantra. They didn't have any display vehicle this time, but there was one Elantra at the center which actually came for a brake pad issue. I found it strange given the car was just 4 months old but then I wasn't aware of the brake issue with Hyundai cars.

But somehow it just didn't tick the boxes like Octavia and so we went with a safer bet: Octavia 1.4TSI MT.

4 years and 57,000 later - the car drives like a charm, never left me stranded, and stops when I ask it to every single time.
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:00   #227
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

I am not surprised with this. Never liked Kia / Hyundai / Maruti a cent. Safety is a major thing one should be looking at. The oldest and most reliable way to test is how a car door closes. When I went for the test drive of seltos, I tried to close the door as I do on my Ecosport ie with some force and suddenly the sound wasn’t very comfy and that made mind not to trust this car.

This test further stamps out my feeling about this car. This should be taken as a slap on the face of Hyundai/Kia. They are simply selling a piece of tin can.

Better options at this price range :

Luxury:
Compass
Harrier
Xuv500
T-roc

Value for money :
Ecosport
Tata Nexon
Xuv300
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:02   #228
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

So it seems the most talked about cars of this year i.e. Seltos and Creta are not safe at all. I just wonder what difference it would have made to its sales figures had it been out a year ago. Like what difference it would make to the new i20's sales figure since the NIOS fared so poorly. Will there be no new i20 on our forum? With NIOS and Seltos scoring so badly, can we expect i20 that falls between these two to be any different.

Just an idea to mods: Can we not have an official thread with manufacturer wise cars and their safety gncap ratings. I know not all cars are tested but atleast those cars which have been. Also I think our official reviews should have a field for ncap ratings. Leave it blank or mention its international model's rating at the time of review and update it once the results are out for Indian version.

Last edited by Carpainter : 12th November 2020 at 01:08.
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:04   #229
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

This is just ridiculous! I was just about to get a feeling that maybe the Koreans have started to build safer cars when I kept reading about all the debates over Platforms used and especially after Tata and Mahindra scoring so well, I felt the other companies would atleast try to up their game. This is a shame! A niggle or two is anyday better than spending so much money with no guarantee over its safety. I guess every review needs to have SAFETY ratings mentioned just as how many other members have mentioned. I wish these manufacturers learn a lesson and think a little bit beyond mere money and sales.
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:08   #230
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

The GNCAP safety ratings for Seltos come as a bummer for sure as I was seriously considering Kia Seltos for my parents back home.

I have seen Seltos on the dealer lots here and they looked fairly decent. These GNCAP crash test safety ratings definitely have put a spanner in my plan besides dented my trust in Kia India. I happen to have a brand new Kia Sorento (Ex Premium with a V-6 that puts out a very decent 290 bhp) and although I have barely put 26,000 kms on the clock but I’m seriously impressed so far. As a result of this purchase last year I told my parents about the Seltos and my dad was considering it but now I guess I’ll have to restart my search.

I did some digging and found that the North American variant of Seltos earned a score of Good (on a scale of Good, Acceptable, Marginal or Poor) in all six of IIHS (Insurance Institute of Highway Safety) crashworthiness tests: driver-side small overlap front, passenger-side small overlap front, moderate overlap front, side, roof strength and head restraints.

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The Seltos also earned scores of Superior (on a scale of Superior, Advanced or Basic) for both of its optional front-crash-prevention systems in both vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian crash prevention tests.

The only area where Seltos received a poor score was headlights; each of its three sets of headlights — LEDs for the SX trim, halogen bulbs with high-beam assist for the S and EX as well as the base LX model’s basic halogen bulbs — all receive a score of poor “due to inadequate illumination on curves.”

I then compared the safety specs of the various trim levels for North American & Indian variant and was not surprised that the level of safety equipment offered was very different.

Safety specs of the North American Seltos
Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly-seltos-safety.jpg

Specification of the Indian Seltos (Safety specs highlighted in yellow)
Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly-seltos.jpg

Some of it is understandable such as Lane Keeping Asist or the Blind Spot Monitoring or Advanced Collision Avoidance which are either redundant in Indian driving conditions or are mandated by American regulatory requirements however not to offer 6 airbags (I believe only the top Indian variant comes with 6 air bags) in a car that almost costs Rs. 20 lacs on road is criminal.

Having said all of that I also suspect that there are some major structural differences between the two variants otherwise there could not have been such a vast difference between safety ratings of IIHS & GNCAP and that is extremely disappointing.

It seems that the way Kia India has read the Indian customer is that “Offer them all the bling that you can and skimp on the safety aspect and Indian customers wouldn’t even notice” (well, that is party true unfortunately to an extent) however, the consumer awareness is on the uptick and we need to give our response to such companies (read that Kia/Hyundai/Maruti) with our wallet.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...-door-suv/2021
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:25   #231
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jas21 View Post
1. Let us start listing GNCAP rating of the cars (whenever/wherever available) in official reviews
I forgot to add this earlier: In Team-BHP Official reviews, if GNCAP test result is not available, it should be shown as a big negative.

Last edited by Jas21 : 12th November 2020 at 01:28.
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:32   #232
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Guys, I would like to know how and whether the standards for GNCAP have changed over time. We all know the polo, Brezza and nexon scored 4 stars some time ago. Will it repeat the result again if done today? Is the seltos being judged to a higher standard here?
Please don't shoot/blame the messenger here. Global NCAP is a non-profit watchdog that has same standards for testing all cars, Indian & Latin(they also do this). They have not changed anything to improve ratings of any cars.

When Nexon scored 4 stars the first time and also when zest scored 0 stars(only because of lack of airbags, its body shell was rated stable), Tata motors took it upon themselves and improved their cars by improving the structure and making air bags standard. In a span of ~ 1 year, they asked GNCAP to test again after these improvements and got better results. Just check the official youtube videos of Global NCAP & CarAndBike (or the their websites).







http://www.globalncap.org/
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:49   #233
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Not sure if this is relevant : But would the results have been different had they chosen a different variant ? For example I see they used the base model Spresso which has a single airbag, however the top end variant has the co-driver airbag as standard, while all the other variants get it as an option. Maybe they could have gone from 0 to 1 star.
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Old 12th November 2020, 02:04   #234
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Shame on Maruti & Hyundai + Kia. The sad thing about India is that car makers who sell safer cars are laggards in the sales charts.

Nothing will change unless the government brings in crash safety norms which aren't watered down. Whatever happened to the BNVSAP? Do they even rate any cars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Eleven pages and counting in less than 12 hours. Looks everyone is taking safety seriously
I doubt the news about Seltos will stop BHPians from buying it. Forum members maybe a small fraction of the car buyers. I've seen many educated folk simply snapping up a car because it has 2 airbags + ABS.

People still care more about sunroofs, music systems, alloys etc.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 12th November 2020 at 02:05.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:04   #235
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_Drive View Post
I got the feeling that Team-BHP is unconsciously biased towards Koreans build quality when I read new gen Santro's official review.
Team-BHP needs to define terms "Precise build & quality" and "superbly engineered" when they mention in their reviews. Sorry if I sound harsh. But it effects genuineness of our reviews.
Can't agree more with you. Off late I have seen a lot of fanboy-ism for Hyundai/Kia. Be it recommendations; calling them best quality brands out there and putting them in the same sentence with Mercedes.

Now check this Thumbnail for Best Enthusiast cars in India.
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Even Hyundai/Kia is positioning their Creta/Seltos as Family SUVs. And even happy owners have called Creta 'an Appliance', a no nonsense car. 90%+ buyers buy them for features, creature comfort, ease of driving and perceived quality. And here we are putting them in Enthusiasts' Cars Thumbnail, over and above so many deserving cars. Sorry for this rant if it sounds harsh however it reflects on our forum's unbiased image.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:23   #236
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_Drive View Post
I got the feeling that Team-BHP is unconsciously biased towards Koreans build quality

Team-BHP needs to define terms "Precise build & quality" and "superbly engineered" when they mention in their reviews. Sorry if I sound harsh. But it effects genuineness of our reviews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jas21 View Post
Off late I have seen a lot of fanboy-ism for Hyundai/Kia. Be it recommendations; calling them best quality brands out there and putting them in the same sentence with Mercedes

Even Hyundai/Kia is positioning their Creta/Seltos as Family SUVs. And here we are putting them in Enthusiasts' Cars Thumbnail, over and above so many deserving cars. Sorry for this rant if it sounds harsh however it reflects on our forum's unbiased image.
I personally think anybody with half a brain and who is capable of critical thinking can see through all the fluff and fanfare of this forum being biased (consciously or unconsciously) towards the Koreans.

It just amazes me some members take their word as gospel, without questioning the logic behind it. I personally find some of the flowery words used to describe the (perceived?) build quality of the Korean’s official car reviews here, to be outright hilarious.

I find calling Hyundai/Kia a quality brand, an oxymoron. Quality and Hyundai/Kia cannot be in the same sentence, because they don’t know what real quality means.

Thankfully, now that the crash test results for some of the Koreans are out in black & white, I HOPE, in future, the official reviews from this forum will more accurately represent facts & not just assumptions, for the greater benefit of all the millions of readers to patronise this website.

I have been calling out the double standards of the Korean twins since a long time. I feel sorry for the thousands of owners of these vehicle who are unknowingly being brainwashed into buying their products based on false promises & marketing hype. Thankfully, for the benefit of everyone, now, the facts are there to speak & for all to see.

Cross posting from another thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ndian-car.html (Why is the Indonesian Kia Sonet longer than the Indian car?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze View Post
Thankfully, Indonesians have already shown Hyundai/Kia where they can shove their products..!

Thankfully they, unlike Indians, don’t fall for the junk that Hyundai/Kia sells as they have a notorious reputation for making vehicles which are unsafe, unreliable (compared to the Japanese OEMs) & fall apart with age.

Ah, the advantages of having good PR & a loyal (blind) fan base. The corporation can do no wrong. Sounds familiar??

They will never shoot themselves in the foot & send their vehicles for crash testing (unless by legislation).

Who needs crash tests & extensive R&D when the Indian public are like expendable crash test dummies??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze View Post
Unfortunately, a lot of people, even on this forum, lack critical thinking and blindly trust everything that’s written here, without fact checking, first.

I never advocate having blind faith in ANYTHING you read on the internet.

Do you own research, draw your own conclusions. Don’t suffer from herd mentality as ultimately, it’s your money at stake and you & your family’s lives at risk.

Last edited by ChoosetoCruze : 12th November 2020 at 06:26.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:51   #237
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagarjun View Post
I don't think so, even if you consider this thread as a yardstick and with the reach of team-bhp itself there should be a dent in their sales numbers. At least I will share this information with my friends and acquaintances. Everytime someone asks my opinion about buying a car, I share the links to the various threads and official reviews from this forum to them.

We cannot compare with sales of Swift or S-Presso as Seltos is 20lac car in its highest trim and people putting that much money would be a little more worried about the safety.
In case of entry level cars, lot of customers are looking at them as their first car which can protect them and their family from elements compared to a bike. That has been the case with me as well when I bought my first car.
I will be pleasantly surprised! I hope it really happens and there is a substantial dent in the sales. That will bring about two things:

1) Kia will be forced to make the Seltos safer by not subsidizing the build quality for the local market. Now, will that be easy? I don't know the answer to that. It depends on what's missing in Seltos for Indian market - is it additional members in the frame or the tensile strength of the frame itself in critical places? Kia will surely know what's different and they will have to get this done.

2) All new models and manufacturers to be launched will know that something has changed in the Indian market and they will equip the cars better - skin deep changes to fare better in these crash tests.

That will show that the market has matured a bit. But like I said, I will be surprised. Though I really hope you are right and we have turned a corner! One of the longest corners out there!

Why the skepticism? I have been following the sales numbers for a very long time now - ever since 'Indian Auto' and the likes started printing some sales numbers in their pages. Public here has an uncanny ability to substantiate any decision they make - and most often it's not rational or logical. Actually, while purchasing a car, it is very easy to make a logical choice - but there is a lot of baggage which limits the thinking of many out here.

It is an extension of what you said in your post. A first time buyer will think about a two wheeler and assure themselves that they are much better off. A Seltos buyer will think about i10 nios while defending the choice and likewise for S-Presso. They are better off in the i10 compared to being in the S-Presso or a two-wheeler!

And I am not even talking about the larger market, I fully expect many members of this forum to follow suit. None will think Seltos barely got those 3 stars by the skin of its teeth and there is no excuse for it to be any less than 5 stars. Meanwhile, Kia PR machinery will kick into action and they will try and convince the hapless 1.25 lakh customers that 3 stars are more than enough and how GNCAP got it wrong!

All said, I really hope I am proved wrong! Only then shall the cars here will get safer going forward. None should ideally buy an unsafe car in this day and age. And for all the tax being collected on cars, I don't think the bureaucracy will care and make something happen. We are all on our own here!

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
I did some digging and found that the North American variant of Seltos earned a score of Good....I then compared the safety specs of the various trim levels for North American & Indian variant and was not surprised that the level of safety equipment offered was very different.
No point in comparing Seltos in India with that in NA. Both looks the same and share the name, but the cars are very different underneath. And as you have rightly pointed out, the poor crash result here is not a function of missing active safety features either. The structure itself is not stable for the Indian model and no amount of safety kit can help once you start there!

Last edited by deetjohn : 12th November 2020 at 07:12. Reason: adding quote
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:22   #238
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Why am i not surprised at this news. The way hyundai and kia and some other manufacturers are treating safety of indian customers, these test results are very much palatable. Case in point the seltos. The htx+ diesel at costs almost 2 millions but just has 2 airbags and no esp or hill hold, but it has vantilated seats and a sunroof

Also the htk+ variant does not get adjustable headrests at the rear. Headrests and not just a feature they are a safety feature too. Even when you are spending 1.5 million you are getting a car without it.

Kia and hyundai knows the priority of indian customers. They know that Indians love to show off and they buy the so called SUVs just for their ego massage.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:30   #239
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Nothing much will change until the buying priorities of the customers change or government mandates a stricter policy of crash test and related safety standards.

Till then we can discuss/post as much as we want, companies like Maruti and Kia will be laughing all the way to the bank month on month.

PS:

1. Mention of the safety ratings when it is made available on review thread is a must.
2. Major flaws like brake issues should be explicitly mentioned instead of mentioning it as niggles.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:40   #240
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Default re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

My family has a 2019 Verna and a 2019 Seltos thanks to my preference for Kia/Hyundai group.

Safety has been the number one priority and we have the top end variants in both the cars (with 6 airbags).

With this news, I have learnt my lesson, most models from so called reputable manufacturers have different structures compared to their international variants.

I have decided to no longer recommend or trust any manufacturer with safety unless GNCAP tests their cars.
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