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Old 12th November 2020, 12:00   #301
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Phew! The thread is literally on fire. Coming to the topic, yes the numbers discussed in the thread may be surprising to many but personally, not to me. Reason? Many manufacturers (let me not name them; it is pretty obvious though) know that we Indians or at least a good part of us look for bragging rights with our car purchases. One being the fuel efficiency and the Whatsapp/Instagram posts of we or our children popping heads out from the sunroof when the car is doing decent speeds. Adding to the list is asking the car's AI bot to tell how do I look - in the presence of our neighbors of course!! A car maker, at the end of the day is here to make money and it is entirely up to us to prioritize our preferences.

To conclude, this thread may get longer and longer, more cars may get added to the list with mediocre NCAP ratings BUT Maruti will continue to be the #1 car maker followed by the Korean twins. This is unfortunate at the same time this is real.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:02   #302
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

I would like to see the poor crash test results of each car mentioned in the con section of official reviews.

Like mentioning " Service is a hit or miss " for SKODA,VW,TATA and M&M, it should be mentioned " Safety is a hit or miss " in every KIA, Hyundai & Maruti official review.

Last edited by kamilharis : 12th November 2020 at 12:06.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:06   #303
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by sou_3749 View Post
Chill guys, the car as as safe as the driver.
With all due respect, this statement does not apply to the Indian driving conditions. People have lost lives by getting crushed under an overloaded truck or by a speeding car falling from a flyover (there was recently such a case involving a VW Polo).

Agreed, a product has to be an overall package and MS/Hyundai/Kia are selling in large numbers because they offer a higher perceived value. However, safety is as (or should be) fundamental an aspect as emission norms are. We are (sadly) still ready to accept unsafe cars in lower segments but when someone is paying 15-20 lacs for a product, a good safety rating should almost be a given.

That is why we are seeing this (justified) outrage here. We as the Indian consumer need to reassess our priorities in terms of what we want from our vehicles and may be put a little more value on ours and our families' lives.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:12   #304
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

I hope someone in the Indian government is also concerned as we are about the safety of consumers buying these vehicles.

They can come up with something similar to the BEE ratings for refrigerators that has to be mandatorily displayed on most of the models, the stars clearly affect the buying decisions of consumers.

I am sure this will have some impact on manufacturers to provide more safe cars as the stars on the car will clearly affect the buying decision.
Mandate it that these ratings have to be provided at the launch of the car and you will see more safe cars in India.

A lot can be discussed on this type of ratings as the rating might be derived for top end vehicle only and lower variants will be sold with the same rating, but then again it's at least a good start to what can be improved over the years.

Last edited by firstdrive : 12th November 2020 at 12:15.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:12   #305
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by sou_3749 View Post
A lot of bashing is happening towards Seltos and honestly that car is not that bad from safely point of view. Atleast I haven't come across a single real life instance which raised suspicion towards safety worthiness. Right now all the owners and future ones feel like they made a wrong decision because of just one test done in controlled circumstances. Chill guys, the car as as safe as the driver.

Now all of the sudden comparisons have been drawn with Tata, Mahindra with respect to build quality, honesty etc. While I agree that these cars have been built good, it's not the only criteria to define the fate of a car. In terms of quality, drive train, finesse and above all engineering they are nowhere near Hyundai/Kia, Suzuki/Maruti, Toyota, VW etc. Here is a video of an owner who shows the real issues with Nexon. Again I am not saying Nexon is a bad product, but every product has it's pluses and minuses. What we buy is a package.
Yes, every car has it's pros and cons, and we admit Tata has a long way to go in terms of reliability and service, but this is a way bigger issue than dynamics or engineering finesse, dear sir/ma'am.

Yes, even a Mercedes S Class cannot withstand a huge crash as a result of reckless driving, and yes, a sedate driver in an Alto is better off on roads, but that ain't the issue here. Prospective buyers are paying top money for what, a false sense of security, a minimum standard of safety that's now available even in a small hatchback now?

Imagine if Mercedes deceided to stop selling their top tier cars with airbags and ABS, instead advising drivers to "go slowly."

It's Kia's top-tier offering. As such, it should be judged by top-tier standards...and unfortunately in our market that is simply the bare minimum of atleast a stable structure this car doesn't have.

I can assure you, that this is not a baseless bashing thread. Kia/Hyundai totally deserves it. Even more for the breaking fiasco. What else can one make of a company that is totally averse to holding recalls for common issues when others do?

As for the current owners, yes, we can't blame them. The results are way too long overdue. There's absolutely no way for any of us to find out about this unethical conduct before. Totally at the mercy of independent tests like these, and the so-called reputed companies have the nerve to question their activities.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:23   #306
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinesh_Malhotra View Post
I am forced to think about cancelling my booking for KIA SONET GTX+ Diesel Automatic and move onto TATA NEXON Diesel (AMT) XZA (O) model.

What do you guys suggest?
AMT is not as smooth as the DCT, but mileage might be higher and the 110ps 260nm motor is as good as the 1.5 in seltos, so performance won't be anything less.

I would suggest to go ahead with Nexon diesel.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:27   #307
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
This guy from car and bike almost sounds like a Kia employee who is giving an explanation.

One of the main reason why Indians are cheated by these manufacturers with sub-par products is because of the biased media.
The moment I read this news and saw Seltos score barely meeting 3-star, found myself gasping for breath. Many in my family and friend circle have bought Seltos, Venue & now Sonet based on my recommendation. Don't now how I'll face them; feeling so ashamed and cheated at the same time.

Moreover, I shuffled through many news channels last night and found no mention of these shocking results. I have discontinued newspaper due to COVID, so not sure if this news even made there.

Rewind back to 2014, when Datsun GO & Swift received 0-star rating, there were panel discussions on mainstream news channels and multiple articles in news papers. Seems like this auto cartel, under the umbrella of SIAM, has learnt to handle such bad press.

I seriously fear that this cartel will work day and night to dilute the upcoming (long coming ??) BNVSAP rating system to their liking.

Last edited by AutoNoob : 12th November 2020 at 12:40.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:28   #308
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by sou_3749 View Post
A lot of bashing is happening towards Seltos and honestly that car is not that bad from safely point of view. Atleast I haven't come across a single real life instance which raised suspicion towards safety worthiness. Right now all the owners and future ones feel like they made a wrong decision because of just one test done in controlled circumstances. Chill guys, the car as as safe as the driver.

Now all of the sudden comparisons have been drawn with Tata, Mahindra with respect to build quality, honesty etc. While I agree that these cars have been built good, it's not the only criteria to define the fate of a car. In terms of quality, drive train, finesse and above all engineering they are nowhere near Hyundai/Kia, Suzuki/Maruti, Toyota, VW etc. Here is a video of an owner who shows the real issues with Nexon. Again I am not saying Nexon is a bad product, but every product has it's pluses and minuses. What we buy is a package.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=EdE0cKmkpZg
I am really sorry but I completely disagree with whatever you have said till now. Global NCAP or for that matter any NCAP test, is not a joke. It's a standardized way of testing a car's structural integrity and it's ability to protect passengers. Else just like you, 100 other people will line up to stake claim on the fact that the Alto, Dzire, Espresso are safe cars and that would be completely losing the point. A friend of mine survived a crash in a Swift Dzire, shall I also claim that I denounce the crash tests and the Dzire is a safe car since I personally haven't observed anyone losing their lives?

This is the first thing us Indians need to give up. We are baselessly trying to defend brands. This is exactly what Kia is taking advantage of. Coming to the narrative of the car being as safe as the driver, I think all of us would have booked an Alto 800 or Espresso instead of paying up big money for safe cars like fools.

I absolutely agree to the fact that the Nexon or any other TATA product might not be as niggle free as a Maruti or Hyundai. But please answer this question of mine, what would you rather pick, a car which is known for issues with braking and having an unstable bodyshell which barely managed to score 3 stars, or a car which does have a few niggles in terms of quality but stops when it has to and has managed to score 5 stars with a perfectly stable bodyshell?

The quest for safety will only start when we Indians accept the fact that certain manufacturers are metting out third world treatment to us and speak up, else global NCAP and all such tests are a lost cause. I see renowned journalists criticising NCAP for not testing the car correctly. Where were the same people when Marutis scored abmysaal ratings or the Nexon scored a perfect 5. Why weren't voices raised then about the sanity of Global NCAP? This incident might or might not impact sales, but it has had a huge impact on the way I look at certain so called "auto journalists" in this country. The silence on their part is deafening to say the least.

Lastly, I do hope team BHP also takes this as a lesson and starts publishing crash test scores bluntly in the pros and cons. There can't be a better way of showing that this is truly an unbiased forum.

I own a 1 star rated Global NCAP car and I know how it feels, only difference being I have paid 5 lakhs, while Seltos owners have paid close to 15.

Last edited by vishy76 : 12th November 2020 at 12:31.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:37   #309
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post

I seriously fear that this cartel will work day and night to dilute the upcoming (long coming ??) BNVSAP rating system to their liking.
The new BNVSAP and many safety related rules came into being because Gopinath Munde, a cabinet minister, unfortunately passed away in a car crash.

I don't want to wish the death of another minister to get the momentum required for safer cars! Road accidents have killed far more people than Covid-19 but the response for both was poles apart.

I also believe the 4m rule can be partially blamed for these unstable structures in cars! The easiest thing to delete is the crumble zones which can not only reduce costs but also help in 'length' management! Also, crash tests are not compulsory yet and people don't give a damn about safety!

I wonder how many Hyundai/ Kia engineers are actually confident of taking along their families in the very machines they have designed!
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:39   #310
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

With Maruti blaming everything possible under the sun for their poor safety results, except for the car itself ; we are not far from the days when they blame the structure of the human body itself and conclude that their cars are made to specification for Indian conditions but the Indian body can't withstand a crash

Many are of the belief that only Teambhpians over here are cribbing about this results but rest of the general public aren't aware about it and don't care.

Yes, general public do care and it is our responsibility to pass on the link of this thread, brake failure threads, skoda horror stories thread, etc. to our friends and extended family before they are plunging for a new car. Just that they aren't as tech savvy enough to check sites like Teambhp. Just Google search Seltos or Sonet and google will show sites like Autocar, Overdrive, Zigwheels, etc. on top which are paid enough to keep negative aspects of the car under the rug.

Ask them to Google search specifically like 'Sonet safety issues', 'Seltos safety issues', 'Nexon safety issues', etc. This is when the site like Teambhp props up and reveal the real picture.

Hope that Teambhp comes up with a GNCAP star watermarks on each and every images of the car on this forum henceforth similar to teambhp website watermark, so that the person appreciating the beauty of the Koreans or Japanese cars while going through the reviews will not miss to see the star ratings.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:40   #311
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
The moment I read this news and saw Seltos score barely meeting 3-star, found myself was gasping for breath. Many in my family and friend circle have bought Seltos, Venue & now Sonet based on my recommendation. Don't now how I'll face them; feeling so ashamed and cheated at the same time.

Moreover, I shuffled through many news channels last night and found no mention of these shocking results. I have discontinued newspaper due to COVID, so not sure if this news even made there.
.....
The Hindu reported the crash test results today. I read it in my hardcopy at home. Here is the link for soft copy.

Regarding feeling bad about recommending Seltos/Venue/Sonet to friends & family, don't beat yourself about this. You trusted brands to provide the same safe platforms which they give elsewhere. They broke your trust and deserve the blame, not you. Learn from this, and from now on, consider only GNCAP test results of Cars made for India
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:44   #312
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Reason why Toyota did nothing much after Etios saga and VW/Skoda is still stuck with a decades old platform. Not supporting their strategy or advocating for them, just what I felt.
Exactly! In a price conscious market like ours, unlikely a manufacturer can meet both the safety and swanky features. Koreans embraced the latter and happily fooled their customers with jargons like high strength steel, 6x airbags whilst the body shell being unstable. Im happy for the Germans, Toyota, Ford, Tata and Mahindra that they still prioritise safety.

Of course Id love the car to have Internet, tow truck calling, SOS calling, ambient lighting and what not but what if when it misses out on auto locking doors, anti pinch windows and auto dimming IRVM? Id rather pick a fun to drive safe car over an unsafe gizmos filled toy, any day!
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:48   #313
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Have been receiving a lot of calls from Maruti solicitating new purchase of their cars, every time I receive a call I confirm my interest in a new vehicle, and then inquire which Maruti model has a 5 star safety rating. Entertainment begins as the sales person starts fumbling around describing all the features other than safety, just doing my bit conveying the message to Maruti that safety matters.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:48   #314
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by sou_3749 View Post
Chill guys, the car as as safe as the driver.
Always good to have differing voices and opinions. But I am not able to digest this statement.
If what you said was true, then GNCAP rating would have no meaning at all. What's the point of crash-testing cars when the 'Driver' is all that matters.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:58   #315
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly



Disclaimer Don't particularly like or prefer Hyundai-Kia for purely brand preference. Call it old school, but I call it "stuck in the 80/90s" mindset.

Can't plan, prefer or even dream of owning a Hyundai/Kia.
In fact, the only scenario I have of choosing a Korean is when the other option is a Chinese vehicle.

But...I have to agree to the fact that, on first touch and feel impression, in the mass affordable market. You have to give it to Hyundai. Mighty impressed by how they manage to give that international market car feel to a mass model. (and the reason why I was suspicious of them having to cut corners somewhere else to compensate)

In fact to me, the 0 star Spresso door sheet metal panels have a slightly better thumb press quality than my 4 star Etios!!!!

And that is just what the Official reviews point out!!!
The touch and feel, door shut, precise fit and quality.
While for fuel efficiency, long term reliability and something simple as ground clearance, the official reviews leave it to the ownership reports for verdict.

So have to humbly disagree with arguments that the official reviews have biases, they can't crash test to see the results. So NCAP results are the only way to know.
Also not all models are crash tested.

But agree 💯 with the argument that the official reviews should point out the safety aspect in the Cons.
Just like Tata/Mahindras niggles and VAG after sales.
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