[Neversaygbye]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Ok, let me try to explain again.

GNCAP by default picks the least safe variant.

Even if for the sake of argument we accept that this is not true and Tata and Mahindra voluntarily send their higher end versions so that they can get a better score that they can use in their marketing, what is stopping other manufacturers from emulating them? However, irrespective of the number of safety features a car has, if the body structure is unstable, then that is not going to change with more airbags. There is another thread on the difference in the build of India spec Seltos (which barely scored 3 stars) vs the higher scoring international spec and one can see the difference in the type of steel used. Link here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...dai-creta.html (Kia Seltos body structure facts & comparison with the Hyundai Creta)

Fact remains that most car manufacturers in India shortchange the buyer on safety and build quality. Pointing fingers at GNCAP because someone is a fanboy or fangirl of Maruti or Hyundai instead of holding these companies accountable for their double standards only emboldens them to continue selling unsafe cars.

[hemanth.anand]

Why am I not surprised one bit!

MSIL always was focused on their bottom lines and they will not change anything. They run a business and nothing more. "being the leader they have to" argument is all ideally ok but they are the leader for not doing so IMO.

More than MSIL, Govt. should be blamed and more than the Govt. we have to blame ourselves! we are a country obsessed with mileage and we want nothing more than that. of course things are changing but still not enough.
Any car discussion that any of my relatives/acquaintances get into with me...the first question is "what's the mileage?" The other day I was driving a Gypsy and even for that the same question

With so many cars to choose from and so many price overlaps these days, people prefer buying a lower variant of a bigger car than the top variant (the safest variant in most of the cases) of a smaller car.

If there is a trend hinting towards safer cars, the Manufacturers will do it irrespective of Govt. regulations

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Labourer who saves for 5 years to buy a car with 7000 rs monthy income ? Lets be real.No "labourer" will buy a used car, much less a new car. Perhaps you need to elaborate on the definition of labourer.

Our ex house help in Kerala did save and buy the cheapest Maruti she could afford. For her, it's a big step up.

May be, we should learn to think beyond the "stereotypes". Why can't a labourer buy a new car? Don't they deserve it, just because they earn less than us?

--Anoop

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by shibujp

even Tata and Mahindra are using this as a clever marketing exercise, actually sponsoring the tests so that their higher variants are used for the test and using the results as marketing collateral.

Even if manufacturers sponsor GNCAP checks if the safety kit provided is standard.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...h-tests-415613



Same is the case with Thar - standard safety kit.
Let's not accuse (making it look like they are taking advantage) manufacturers who have taken up safety as a USP and produce safer cars even though there is no regulation to do so.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by theexperthand

Our ex house help in Kerala did save and buy the cheapest Maruti she could afford. For her, it's a big step up.

May be, we should learn to think beyond the "stereotypes". Why can't a labourer buy a new car? Don't they deserve it, just because they earn less than us?

--Anoop

Getting a bit OT, but house-help is not "labourer" in my opinion. A labourer is one who would be typically doing so-called menial jobs like construction, ploughing/tilling fields etc. Its not a question of deserving, its a question of affording. Someone with 7000 Rs monthly earning can barely get food, clothing and shelter for himself/herself, forget buying and using a car.

PS: Even our house-help got a used Maruti Swift for the family. She has a son who has just joined the IT industry, a daughter who is married, a husband who is not currently employed, and some farmland where they go to transport produce (in that car). They employ casual labourers in their field.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

Out of all the things you mentioned, you can control only one thing, the car you drive. All others are external entities you have no control on. Hence, it is better to choose only the best protection if that is all you can control.

Not really. The first thing that is within my control is how I drive whether it is a tin can or a "built like a tank" candidate. Statistics show that defensive driving is the biggest preventer of accidents.

Drive on,
Shibu

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by shibujp

The first thing that is within my control is how I drive whether it is a tin can or a "built like a tank" candidate. Statistics show that defensive driving is the biggest preventer of accidents.

Totally appreciate your efforts to be a safer driver! That said - Accidents are by definition unexpected or unintended.

Defensive driving surely helps, but can never eliminate the possibility. You can, at best, bring down chances of hitting a tree or divider to zero, but cannot ever rule out the possibility of another person losing control and crashing into you.

Safe driving and a safe car isn't two mutually exclusive factors. In the odd event that someone else doesn't drive safe, you are definitely better off in a safer designed car.

[Starfire]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Labourer who saves for 5 years to buy a car with 7000 rs monthy income ? Lets be real.No "labourer" will buy a used car, much less a new car. Perhaps you need to elaborate on the definition of labourer.

It's an analogy buddy, take it with a pinch of salt. However, you've missed the main point, which is that the value of money is dissimilar for different people belonging to various socioeconomic strata.

And yes I don't know about you, but I know a couple of them. One has an Eeco, and the other has a Nano, both really unsafe co-incidentally. How they bought it, I honestly have no idea, maybe worked in the middle east in the past? God knows, but yeah the Eeco guy does window grill installations, and the other guy was into painting last I knew him. Hope that defines Labourer for you

[rageshgr]

Originally Posted by S15

The South African S-Presso is akin to our VXi (O) s-presso.

The VXi (O) and the LXi(O) has front seatbelt pre-tensioners and 2 airbags as standard. The non-optional variants come with 1 airbag. The price difference is a measly 7 thousand.

Is maruti wrong in selling a car with one airbag? Yes.
Is Global NCAP wrong in picking the variant with one airbag, when there's a variant with 2 airbags and pre-tensioners merely 7 thousand rupees away? Also yes.

NCAP tests the most selling variant I believe. Anyways the SA guy said “All African S Pressi variants come with dual airbags”. And that’s not the case with Indian version. And that’s the problem

[VVN]

Can't believe that questions are being raised about GNCAP. This can happen only in India. When did we Indians become such huge fans of service providers? I mean, you pay lakhs, you get a product/service, you use it, you move on. If the service or product is sub-standard, it has to be called out. In this case, we should be thankful to GNCAP for exposing MSIL and maybe Hyundai for their double standards and attitude towards Indians. GNCAP is just a messenger here, educating us about the perils of owning sub standard products which mind you, are powerful machines. I can't wait for the tests to become even more stringent. High time our roads became safer.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Totally appreciate your efforts to be a safer driver! That said - Accidents are by definition unexpected or unintended.

Defensive driving surely helps, but can never eliminate the possibility. You can, at best, bring down chances of hitting a tree or divider to zero, but cannot ever rule out the possibility of another person losing control and crashing into you.

Safe driving and a safe car isn't two mutually exclusive factors. In the odd event that someone else doesn't drive safe, you are definitely better off in a safer designed car.

It's statistically proven than the bigger threat to road safety is the human behind the wheel. Perhaps the discussion should be about which manufacturer spends the most effort in educating drivers on better driving practices then.

Again what is the bigger objective that a manufacturer should commit to? Saving the planet or making a profit? What should safety initiative address? The edge case or the bigger issues? What project management theory or business tome projects that we must spend an inordinate amount of time and money addressing an edge case where the statistics say otherwise? If the statistics argue that a lot of the fatalities where due to cars hitting each other, I would find some merit it the outrage.

And GNCAP itself bases it's current conclusion on a single offset test which itself is quite weird where as the safety tests mandated by the government are at least three to the best of my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong

Also if not sponsored GNCAP take the base model. Just today I was reading that of the Hyundai i20 sales the top three variants accounted for 85% of sales. Shouldn't GNCAP take the most popular variant perhaps?

Drive on,
Shibu

[frewper]

Originally Posted by tharian

Just like how the Government woke up one day and decided to leap frog to BS6 norms, why can't they implement stringent crash test standards?

After all, at the end it results in loss of lives just like pollution.

I think the government is concerned about safety but for some reason unwilling to implement the laws regarding the same.

Its only the current transport minister have time and time again mentioned that the current fatality rate is quite high and is serious about getting the number down. Though his approach has been more about putting speed limits on the highways and nothing more.

I think the government has been more keen on pollution measures because its something that affects everyone and not just the common man. Delhi has unbreathable air in every backyard, no wonder the politicians decided to do something about it and put stringent measures in place.

Politicians travelling in Fortuners and other expensive cars, take safety for granted, and hence probably is why the topic is still being ignored. Also, I wont be surprised if the auto manufactures have something to do with it, for no car safety laws in this country.

[Siva Prakash]

The South African Renault kwid also got a better safety rating than the Indian kwid, although the Indian kwid got a better adult occupant rating.

[ron178]

This tweet by Suzuki is rather irresponsible, in my opinion. However, what surprises me is that Suzuki actually does sell more standard equipment on the S-Presso in a country where airbags are not even mandatory. This goes to show that a customer base that expects some standard of safety can force a manufacturer to produce safer vehicles, even if the government does not. Similarly, the Renault Kwid offered in South Africa also offers two airbags as standard and scored two stars for adult occupant protection in today's Global NCAP crash tests, which, though far from being a good rating, is an improvement over the Indian-spec Kwid.

This also raises an important question: though South Africa has less stringent safety laws than India, it it safe to assume that a made-in-India car exported to South Africa that scores well will score similarly if its Indian counterpart is tested? Cars sold there seem to have better standard equipment despite weaker laws. I have observed people, even on this forum, recommending the Suzuki Ignis over the Swift because the made-in-India SA-spec Ignis scored three stars while the India-spec Swift scored two. Similarly, I blindly assumed that the Africa-spec Honda Amaze's 4-star safety rating would be shared with its Indian twin. Am I wrong in assuming this?

[alikidwhy]

Originally Posted by theexperthand

Our ex house help in Kerala did save and buy the cheapest Maruti she could afford. For her, it's a big step up.

May be, we should learn to think beyond the "stereotypes". Why can't a labourer buy a new car? Don't they deserve it, just because they earn less than us?

I believe what was meant in the above post was not any stereotype but rather a real problem.

It’s not about why a labourer “can’t” buy a new car but rather that it is very difficult, financially for a low earning unskilled worker to do so and I say this in the nicest way possible.

Everyone, labourers or not deserve the basic amenities and even luxuries but it’s the norm of our society to push them down. It’s great that your ex house help could purchase a brand new car but I believe these days even low earning workers have other priorities like finding food, shelter and raising and educating children.

Also, the topic of discussion is Maruti SA claiming that the cars sold here are inferior to those in South Africa so let’s not get bogged down by these hypothetical discussions.