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Old 5th August 2021, 05:15   #31
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Default re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

I believe a better approach would be to identify cars with dangerously unsafe structures / safety features with compulsory crash tests and place a blanket ban on such cars being sold. Though mandating six airbags would be an amazing step, I'm afraid manufacturers will further weaken the chassis of Indian market cars in order to keep prices competitive - which might eventually cause a net negative in safety
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Old 5th August 2021, 08:12   #32
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

Mr. R.C Bhargava, chairman of Maruti Suzuki would say the same thing if anyone would ask him to make their cars stronger built too. “Making our cars stronger and sturdier will add to the cost, it will depend on how much the consumer is willing to pay for the added safety“.

Someone please tell him to stop commenting on “added” safety when his cars can’t even provide “basic” safety. You may put 10 airbags in a car, its nothing without a strong body structure and well made crumple zones.

Last edited by Starfire : 5th August 2021 at 08:15.
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Old 5th August 2021, 09:19   #33
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

I (on behalf of all Indian citizens) appeal to the government of India to reduce GST and insurance premiums on cars with advanced safety features.

With safer cars, the government will have lesser deaths, overall medical costs, and more tax payers/consumers. Win-win-win.
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Old 5th August 2021, 10:24   #34
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

Who pays for it? Can the government provide a tax incentive to cars that voluntarily comply?

If Indian roads are unsafe, it is a consequence of utter breakdown of rules compliance (and enforcement) at the lowest levels... where the rubber meets the road, literally. This lethargy and non-compliance spans multiple government departments. Improving safety by providing more airbags and safety tech is like installing a home theater on the 10th floor of a building with shoddy basement built on a swamp. (I just realized after typing the above sentence that it is not a far fetched analogy and could be a literal example from multiple buildings in my own pin code area!)

Some examples of how we lack the basement
1. Is there a spec/standard for roads that's strictly followed? NH is probably built to spec - what about SH, Taluk roads etc.? Are SH of Kerala and Maharashtra comparable?
2. Do repair and utility works (from water pipelines to Jio cables) restore the roads back to the original state?
3. Is there an inter-agency communication when roads are dug up? The contractor who digs should be on the hook till an officer representing roads gives the thumbs up. I suspect that they only get a thumbs up from the water department or telecom department now.
4. Are access controlled highways truly access controlled? Just yesterday there was a line in the Land Rover Defender review to go for the 3L engines because our highways have people strolling in...
5. Are some vehicles on sale really roadworthy? There is no reason for a brand new Leyland truck to have a stop light the size of a compact Nokia phone from the 90s. What are autos with 4 wheels doing on the highways carrying tons of load?

Let's fix these and then go for autonomous cars and advanced safety features. Going back to the 10 story building analogy, an autonomous car in India will have too many patchwork algorithms to avoid collisions to even leave your driveway.
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Old 5th August 2021, 10:32   #35
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

This is utter Nonsense

Imagine a house, if the roof is itself unstable, how do you expect the pillars to keep it intact? Same goes for cars, here the roof is the overall structure of the Vehicle and Airbags are the pillars.
How many ever Airbags are provided, if the structure is unstable, Airbags are not efficient.

Why cars like Nexon score 5 stars inspite of it having 2 Airbags?
Because its structural Integrity and chassis is strong.

I do understand that Airbags are important, but so is the structure and chassis.
Due to this rule, cars like Altroz Polo Nexon will have 6 airbags which will increase the price of the vehicle.

Instead of this Respected Nitin Gadkari should Make NCAP ratings mandatory for all cars in the market. If a car scores less than 3 star, it should immediately be banned. He should request Manufacturers to manufacture cars which at least score 3 stars.
If this law is passed, the following things will happen
1. Maruti/Hyundai will have to re reengineer almost all of their cars.
2. Damage of the cars involved will be less since body will be strong
3. Most important- Will increase safety of the passengers
For those who think I am TATA fan, let me tell them that I just want all cars of India to be safe, I want a Layman to choose a safe car for his family, also I want Manufacturers to have more competition especially in safety
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Old 5th August 2021, 10:38   #36
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

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Originally Posted by Starfire View Post
Mr. R.C Bhargava, chairman of Maruti Suzuki would say the same thing if anyone would ask him to make their cars stronger built too. “Making our cars stronger and sturdier will add to the cost, it will depend on how much the consumer is willing to pay for the added safety“. Someone please tell him to stop commenting on “added” safety when his cars can’t even provide “basic” safety.
Not playing devil's advocate here, but Maruti Suzuki is a low-cost high volume player. Making their structure stronger means higher cost. And we need low-cost vehicles to keep entry point lower. Considering most of MS customers move from two wheelers to cars, these cars do provide added safety. So his comment makes sense.

MS has kept the lowest car prices in-spite of inflation and rupee devaluation yoy. Which is required, because net increase in one's income is almost nill after factoring in all these items. Not everyone can afford 15L INR car.

If government is so adamant on safety, they should consider reducing taxes based on safety rating. Safer the car, lower the taxes (probably within that bracket). That should offset some cash burden off of customer-carmaker.
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Old 5th August 2021, 10:48   #37
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

The intentions of the Transport minister and Government of India are positive and in the right direction. However for improving safety and minimizing accidents, there are many other things which we need to do first:-

1) Improve quality of Chassis of vehicles big and small, and intorduce mandatory rules for the same. There is no use of 6 airbags on a car which bends on banging a motorcycle.

2) Reduce the taxes which are around 50%, so that manufacturers can concentrate on giving high quality safety features. All safety features like airbags etc. are third party sourced, so quality can be improved.

3) Improve quality of roads to minimize accidents.

4) Implement high quality cameras at every corner of cities and towns, to fine violators and this can also double up for public safety.

5) Make speed limits realistic. Because driving at a very slow speed on a 2/3 lane highway is also dangerous.

Just by introducing 6 airbags rule will only increase the cost of existing cars which are anyway higher than foreign counterparts.
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Old 5th August 2021, 11:15   #38
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

A nice pointer by Mr. Gadkari indeed. However, the manufacturers will just use this as an excuse to screw the end-customer even further.

-Manufacturers who don't provide 6 airbags: Fine, but we increase the costs as profits should not be affected
-Manufacturers who already were providing 6 airbags: We'll charge premium because we have been providing 6 and now the competitor will too. Hence, product differentiation by premium pricing

At the end of the day, it's our wallets that weep because inflation is increasing tenfold (metaphorically) and salaries are stagnating for all non-Tier 1 graduates.
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Old 5th August 2021, 12:09   #39
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Default Nitin Ghadkari encourages Auto Makers to standardize on 6 Airbags

The Minister of Road Transport and Highways, Nitin Gadkari, has urged carmakers in the country to up the safety level of all vehicles. Following today’s meeting with the representatives from the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM), Gadkari, tweeted, “In the interest of passenger safety, I have appealed all private vehicle manufacturers to compulsorily provide a minimum of 6 airbags across all variants and segments of the vehicle.”

Great move by the government to nudge the auto industry towards higher standards of safety. We have industry leaders like Maruti and Hyundai which refuse take the leadership in moving the industry towards higher levels of safety. So the government stepping in to do so is the best chance we have to make safety a priority. Six airbags have been mandatory in the US for over a decade now!

I think this also gives the manufacturers who care about safety (such as Mahindra) to take a lead here. M&M could make 6 airbags standard across all variants of XUV 700 and the new Scorpio. Yes, it would add costs but given these vehicles are in the 15-25 lakh bracket, it should be possible to absorb the cost increase as this would be a smaller proportion of costs compared to say a sub-compact car.

When this is made mandatory (it is a "when" and not an "if" ), the biggest hit will be to Maruti, which primarily makes small cars, the vast majority of which do not have 6 airbags. I think some do not even have two airbags, and just the driver airbag.
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Old 5th August 2021, 12:14   #40
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

The manufacturer will always find an excuse to raise the prices of their product so no amount of incentive will lead to lower prices of car.
Unless people stop buying new cars or some new manufacturer bring lower priced cars this won't happen.

Only Chinese manufacturers have ability to dictate prices like in mobile space. However due to protectionist policy, current state of Indo - china relations it is unlikely.

Last edited by vb-san : 6th August 2021 at 05:58. Reason: Quoted post edited/deleted.
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Old 5th August 2021, 12:21   #41
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Default Re: Nitin Ghadkari encourages Auto Makers to standardize on 6 Airbags

If the government isn't willing to cut-down gst rates for automotive industry why will automakers want to make their already expensive cars more expensive?
Tesla, Hyundai etc have repeatedly asked government to lower taxes on EVs which the government has recently rejected.

Does anyone here think car manufacturers can add 4 more airbags to a base Sub 4m suv without its price climbing upwards? All car prices will move a segment upwards and I don't blame the manufacturer for jacking prices up. One look at the invoice of any vehicle will tell us who's taking 70% of the car's actual onroad price.

The ministry wants us to match the West in terms of infra and safety when the salaries don't seem to be going up the same rate. This will create the same issue the mandatory 5 year insurance did which is put off buyers who wanted to move from 2 wheeler to 4. Every paisa matters for them.
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Old 5th August 2021, 13:26   #42
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

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Originally Posted by FrozeninTime View Post

The manufacturer will always find an excuse to raise the prices of their product so no amount of incentive will lead to lower prices of car.
Unless people stop buying new cars or some new manufacturer bring lower priced cars this won't happen.
Manufacturers will price their cars lower if there's is a tax which actually makes sense ! Almost 50% of any car's on road price amounts to the taxes you pay to the looters in the government. If taxes are reduced that will bring down prices of components, manufacturing and many more. That would also mean substantial increase in car demand as more people can afford the car. Right now, one has to pay road tax, registration tax, insurance and the manufacturer pays GST (which btw is eventually paid by the customer only). And on top of that, you also pay road tax on the fuel ! With this weird price sensitive car market, no manufacturer other than those backed by China will dare enter Indian market. Heck even Ford is on fence about it's India operations.
Kudos to Tata and Mahindra for giving well built safe cars for the prices at par with the other manufacturers. And shame on government for being far away from the reality.
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Old 5th August 2021, 13:34   #43
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

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Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Mr. Nitin Gadkari has urged the automobile manufacturers to increase the number of airbags to 6 as a standard fitment during his meeting with SIAM representatives. Understandably the cost will escalate but nevertheless it'll increase the safety level.

6 airbags

The mandatory 2 airbags rule comes into force after 31st December 2021. Looking at the way the cutoff for this has been extended multiple times, this 6 airbags suggestion will take ages to be enforced.
Two airbag mandate has made the much required change in the India Cars. Atleast cars get 1star rating in crash test. Few budget model cars like #Triber offer 4-Airbag which is in the affordable range of consumers.

6 Airbag is definitely a welcome money by the Ministry. Hope all OEM implement this voluntarily unless be forced to do
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Old 5th August 2021, 13:44   #44
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
I (on behalf of all Indian citizens) appeal to the government of India to reduce GST and insurance premiums on cars with advanced safety features.

With safer cars, the government will have lesser deaths, overall medical costs, and more tax payers/consumers. Win-win-win.
Lost cause. The automobile sector will always be looked at as the proverbial chicken that keeps laying the golden eggs, no matter who is running the government. This is also the single biggest reason why the Indian auto sector will never be allowed to blossom to its full potential.

Quantatitive growth is inconsequential if consumers continue to be punished severely for acquiring sub standard products, with an even more severe punishment in terms of cost of ownership.

Last edited by TDCi4Life : 5th August 2021 at 14:03. Reason: spelling error
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Old 5th August 2021, 14:23   #45
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Default Re: MoRTH appeals to carmakers to provide 6 airbags

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Originally Posted by prajwalmr62 View Post
Not playing devil's advocate here, but Maruti Suzuki is a low-cost high volume player. Making their structure stronger means higher cost. And we need low-cost vehicles to keep entry point lower. Considering most of MS customers move from two wheelers to cars, these cars do provide added safety. So his comment makes sense.

MS has kept the lowest car prices in-spite of inflation and rupee devaluation yoy. Which is required, because net increase in one's income is almost nill after factoring in all these items. Not everyone can afford 15L INR car.
So in short, people who can’t afford cars above 15 Lakh have no right to safety? Come on man, the VW Polo Trendline or the Tata Tiago XE are cheaper than the Swift Lxi, why aren’t VW or Tata compromising on build quality?
Sorry to say but comments like these are what make Maruti Suzuki take the Indian masses for granted.
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