[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

The cost to REPLACE Driver and Front Co passenger airbag in New creta is more than a lac INR. This includes sensor, wiring kit, airbag, module,new dash, steering, seat belts, labour.

In most cases insurance covers only 50% of the cost, as airbag is considered as a plastic part.

With additional side curtain airbag, the cost of airbag replacement for a mid-size car is going to touch 2 lac INR.

If one doesn't have zero dep insurance through dealer,your savings is going to be wiped. An ambitious lower middle class person will give up his car dream and resort to unsafe 2 wheeler. In the process of adding more airbags, you might push someone out to unsafe mode of transportation.

Airbags are life saver, no denying that. But what's the point in installing 6 airbags in alto? Cars in India has other problems to solve first.

I guess only 1% of Indians use rear seat belts, so why bother adding airbags as it will never deploy.

Please see the official government statement on the cost increase below:

"The minister had acknowledged that additional airbags in small cars will increase their cost by at least ₹3,000-4,000." So the cost increase is nowhere close to what you have stated. You are thinking of high retail charge to repair, not the actual cost to the manufacturer.

As per the issue with seat belts, there is no evidence that airbags only deploy if seat belts are worn. That is a misunderstanding which many people keep repeating. No manufacturer has stated that airbags only deploy when seat belts are worn. It is obviously better to wear seat belts for extra safety. However, airbags do deploy regardless of whether seatbelts are worn. In any case, why should other people be punished with diminished safety if some people decide to not wear their seat belts? Let the irresponsible people suffer. Why reduce safety for those who would wear their seat belts? By that logic why do we even have front airbags as many people don't wear seat belts in the front as well? In any case, we are talking about side curtain airbags which deploy on the side all the way from the front to the rear. They protect both the front and rear occupants against impacts from the side.

[vinu_h]

Originally Posted by anb

6 airbags is pointless if the structure of the car is unstable. The decision only helps airbag manufactures.

And Insurance companies + Dealerships + Parts manufacturers.

If loss of tax income is a concern, then, would prefer GoI includes life time insurance in the vehicle sale tax. If nothing, those who were at a loss from accidents caused by those w/o insurance, will see some relief.

[achintatri]

Much awaited move from the GOI I would say. For any vehicle this is the very first bullet point as part of their requirements to select any car. Car manufacturers have already achieved economies of scale and they are professional enough to meet this regulation. Common man will definitely gain from this move.

Airbags was one thing that could not be accessorize in the cars but now those who are looking for more safety features and less so called premium features (no offense to current owners of premium cars) will have choices starting from the base models.

This is a win-win for all customers since in order to provide more proposition over the models, the mid and higher models will have additional features.

My only request to car manufacturers is to provide automatic gearboxes across all the variants. Kia Carens - Are you listening :-).

BTW, I just canceled my ERTIGA Zxi AT booking considering there is going to be one with 6 airbags in October this year. Moreover, I am going to look at Kia Carens as one of the options now.

Happy Driving and Be Safe all!

Best Regards,
Achint

[Neversaygbye]

While in principle I believe that making six airbags mandatory is a step in the right direction in terms of safety, at the end of the day, we must remember that airbags are supplementary restraint systems. Such a law in the absence of proper norms on build quality and lack of enforcement of the law on mandatory seat belts for all passengers is hardly going to make our cars safer.

However, the intention, no matter how misplaced, is laudable. I have always wondered why India gets the poor cousins of the same models that are sold globally when it comes to build quality and safety - Tata and Mahindra have shown that 5 star safety can be provided at cost parity with other manufacturers so it can't be because of cost alone. This kind of law will definitely help to bring one aspect of safety on par with many other countries, even for OEMs that have been traditionally low on safety.

But by itself it is not enough. Now can we have the other things in place as well, like a proper safety rating system (which is not watered down for India), for one? Else I will keep wondering whether the honourable minister has invested in a component OEM that manufactures airbags and that has made him come up with such a brilliant idea on airbags without addressing any of the other safety related parameters.

Another point - while I agree that the cost of cars is only going to go up thanks to these kind of laws, the fact remains that most cars are already too expensive, and much of that has to do with the bells and whistles that they come with these days (rain sensing wipers, auto headlights, ventilated seats, sunroof, etc., etc.)- many of these features are good to have but can be dispensed with in lower versions. Hence the cost impact can still be minimized in base models if OEMs are serious about doing that.

However, there's no denying that these measures will increase the cost of even the base models somewhat and this will push more people towards two wheelers. Hence from a holistic perspective, the central and state governments need to invest in creating robust public transport systems and only then will all these measures make sense.

Thus I would request the government to first address the basic things - road infrastructure, pedestrian and cattle access control on highways (instead of putting barricades and speedbreakers to solve the problem), proper driving tests and training, traffic laws enforcement, better public transport infrastructure, better build quality, etc. before coming up with such half baked laws, no matter how well intentioned they are.

[mohitchalla]

So far safety has been considered optional (barring a few exceptions) and only the higher end variants offer 6 or more airbags. Many people who do not need any of the other gimmicky features still have to pay for those just for the added safety. This new change will customers to buy the entry-level variants with enhanced safety. I do understand that the impact will not be dramatic as there are other factors that also contribute to a car's safety and not just airbags.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Please see the official government statement on the cost increase below:

"The minister had acknowledged that additional airbags in small cars will increase their cost by at least ₹3,000-4,000." So the cost increase is nowhere close to what you have stated. You are thinking of high retail charge to repair, not the actual cost to the manufacturer.

I suspect this is usual govt miscalculation, without a proper study. An airbag needs to have accelerometers that detect an impact, to trigger a small explosion that fills the airbags with nitrogen. 6 airbags at 3-4K will mean they can do all this at about Rs.600+. Very unlikely.

Perhaps they mean Rs.4,000 per airbag. And this perhaps won't include cost of additional design & labour required to put these together.

I think the additional cost will be in 10s of thousands increase in car price, and for lower end cars that can be a pretty steep rise.

I believe India should have two category of cars. City cars and highway cars. City cars do not travel at high speeds, will typically have less number of passengers. For these city vehicles (especially EVs) we need relaxation in 6 airbag rules. Even a car without any airbag is way safer than two wheeler, which is what people will buy if small cars become very expensive.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by hkollar

City cars do not travel at high speeds, will typically have less number of passengers.

Neither was the Chrysler Sebring in this video, travelling at a lower speed and carrying only a driver (modelled on a 2012 real-world crash):

https://youtu.be/dgrrOhuRxzg

In short, the speed of the struck car doesn't make a difference in side impact.

Arguably, most SUVs in India are crossovers that are not as large but the city cars are also a lot smaller.

The rising popularity of high-riding vehicle like SUVs makes side head protection in small cars much more important.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by hkollar

I suspect this is usual govt miscalculation, without a proper study. An airbag needs to have accelerometers that detect an impact, to trigger a small explosion that fills the airbags with nitrogen. 6 airbags at 3-4K will mean they can do all this at about Rs.600+. Very unlikely.

Perhaps they mean Rs.4,000 per airbag. And this perhaps won't include cost of additional design & labour required to put these together.

I think the additional cost will be in 10s of thousands increase in car price, and for lower end cars that can be a pretty steep rise.

I believe India should have two category of cars. City cars and highway cars. City cars do not travel at high speeds, will typically have less number of passengers. For these city vehicles (especially EVs) we need relaxation in 6 airbag rules. Even a car without any airbag is way safer than two wheeler, which is what people will buy if small cars become very expensive.

The cost of six airbags has long been described as negligible. As far back as 2012, studies in the developed world put it at $500. It would have come down since then. You are looking at it on an individual level based on prices charged for repair. The cost of bulk procurement is much smaller. Regardless, six airbags and ESC are the minimal international safety standard aand no vehicle should be sold without it in India. The side curtain airbags protect the front passengers as well. Even if only the driver is in the vehicle, you need the same side and curtain airbags to protect him or her. Even in the cities, people travel at speeds of 60 to 70kmph. The crash tests are conducted at speeds lower than that. You can see the damage from side impacts and see how important side airbags are. There is no such thing as a city car. All cars are taken on the highway from time to time. I fail to understand this reluctance in accepting enhanced safety. We should be wholeheartedly welcoming it. Every year vehicle prices are increased by 10% or more anyway. If a similar increase led to enhanced safety, it would be well worth it.

[Spaced Out]

Originally Posted by Neversaygbye

Thus I would request the government to first address the basic things - road infrastructure, pedestrian and cattle access control on highways (instead of putting barricades and speedbreakers to solve the problem), proper driving tests and training, traffic laws enforcement, better public transport infrastructure, better build quality, etc. before coming up with such half baked laws, no matter how well intentioned they are.

Originally Posted by dust-n-bones

Is it not more worthwhile for policymaking to focus more on outcomes (safety) rather than technology (airbags)?

If, lets say, ministry research shows that most serious accidents today are caused by

• overworked/untrained drivers,
• dangerous intersections and road quality and
• vehicle rollovers,

then the policy-making goal can (probably) be to reduce this by 50% in a decade by making investments in:

• Re-designed roadways starting with accident prone areas
• Driver training and refreshers. Licence violation enforcement. Restricting number of hours at the wheel, etc
• Strengthening vehicle shell to minimize rollover damage to occupants. Experiment with various ESC softwares, coupled with airbags to understand efficacy.

This level of data must be available with road reserach organizations and insurers. Why not put this data, along-with policy goals and achievements, all in the public domain to have a healthy debate on this important topic? I'm sure many experts from consumer bodies and manufacturers can come up with sound policy suggestions for every review.

Such an approach will also keep policy environment stable (maybe review the policy every 10 years?), which is missing right now. It seems to be driven more by what catches the fancy of the hon'ble minister.

Though it has to be said, the thrust and intent seem to be honest and in the right direction.

Originally Posted by jithin23

Better quality roads and sanity in toll rates: Some parts of the country are having really good roads, but we're a long way from having smooth roads throughout. Plus toll at each toll plaza is close to a hundred rupees which is again very expensive and sometimes these roads aren't maintained well or the toll plazas have some 200 vehicles stuck and each vehicle has to pay to regardless of the queue length(e.g. Nelamangala toll).

I want to underline what some of you have said. These airbag mandates are fine but I consider them to be distractions from what is one of the key responsibilities of the Ministry.

I have seen a woman on a two-wheeler fall off because of a road crater. The bike was relatively slow and I was behind them - about to enter the turning for Cherish Honda in Gurgaon - when I saw this happen. Because I was slow and waiting for them to clear the turning I could easily stop.

Another example: in Vasant Kunj, Delhi on the road outside Sector B5&6, poorly marked breakers and road craters have led to at least one fatal accident that I know of.

Sure, every single road is not the responsibility of the Union Minister but figuring out standards and getting them executed by government bodies is very much the mandate of the department.

[Vasanth]

Absolutely pointless move at least for the time being.
This is a survey of accidents in the year 2019.
Credit - MoRTH





As you can see :
Two wheelers account for 35% of road accidents
Over speeding and driving on wrong side of the lane and/or lane discipline are the number two reasons for accidents

-Let’s first educate our population
-Strictly implement the rules especially lane discipline.
-Instead of giving tickets for tint and modifications, fine these kinds of fools.
-A car cruising at 100 kmph wouldn’t meet with an accident if a biker or auto rickshaw cuts him off.
-A biker/rickshaw going on wrong side of motorway to avoid a U turn gets on my nerves.
-10 bright headlights on trucks blinding the oncoming vehicles should be banned. Not Go pros on helmets to prove your innocence.

6 airbags in Alto? Is this a joke?
First, let’s make our roads safe by strictly implementing existing rules.
Not even Airbags will save your life if one has road manners and common sense.

[volkman10]

Mandatory 6 airbag rule is pro-rich anti-poor, shouldnt be implemented; IRF ( International Road Federation) tells Minister.

which will further increase India's imports from China.

Link

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Vasanth

Absolutely pointless move at least for the time being.
This is a survey of accidents in the year 2019.
Credit - MoRTH


As you can see :
Two wheelers account for 35% of road accidents
Over speeding and driving on wrong side of the lane and/or lane discipline are the number two reasons for accidents

-Let’s first educate our population
-Strictly implement the rules especially lane discipline.
-Instead of giving tickets for tint and modifications, fine these kinds of fools.
-A car cruising at 100 kmph wouldn’t meet with an accident if a biker or auto rickshaw cuts him off.
-A biker/rickshaw going on wrong side of motorway to avoid a U turn gets on my nerves.
-10 bright headlights on trucks blinding the oncoming vehicles should be banned. Not Go pros on helmets to prove your innocence.

6 airbags in Alto? Is this a joke?
First, let’s make our roads safe by strictly implementing existing rules.
Not even Airbags will save your life if one has road manners and common sense.

1) I had once met a senior police official to request him to conduct road safety awareness campaign in my organization. His curt reply was-your employees have acquired a drivers license-what more is required to educate them ? On first thought, the reply appeared rude. But then it did make sense. All the rules of driving are there as part of the process of learning and taking the test. It is us citizens who sometimes take these tests lightly, rather looking at them as "hurdle" instead of being an enabler or a qualifier. So. in my humble opinion, educating the qualified is certainly not going to yield any benefit because no matter how much you try, some people do not want to follow rules where they can. Law enforcement can only do so much.
2) Any car that is not structurally able to meet requirements for 6 airbags wont be available for sale anyway.
I dont get this resistance to a safety measure. Some 10 years ago, we would have had the same argument if they had decided to make ABS or seat belts compulsory- why wear seat belts ? Improve road infrastructure first, ask people to drive properly etc.

Infrastructure will continue to evolve- its a never-ending process. We wont ever live in a perfect society with 100 % compliance. But any safety measure that reduces risk of accident or injury must be encouraged in earnest.

[Axe77]

“Vehicle owner appeals to MoRTH to make proper drivable highways”.

Signed
Axe77

[PetrolheadRup]

3 point seatbelt could soon be mandatory for the 2nd row middle seat

MoRTH is likely to issue a notification in about a month, after which suggestions and comments will be sought from the public.

"The intent of the government is to improve the overall safety ratings of passenger cars manufactured in India. The ministry found that barring a few models, no vehicle has three-point seatbelts for the passenger seated in the rear middle in India. They only have a lap belt, which we found is hardly effective in case of a crash, thus putting the passenger at great risk," a senior MoRTH official said requesting anonymity.

Source

[ron178]

Originally Posted by PetrolheadRup

3 point seatbelt could soon be mandatory for the 2nd row middle seat





Source

This is one improvement I have no objections to at all. It is an important step in making seatbelt usage improve and I really get agitated when new cars (which have this feature in other markets) don't have it in India. I'm also hoping he mandates rear seatbelt reminders (maybe even before the curtain airbags) which for the Government will be more cost-effective than trying to enforce rear seatbelt usage laws (which I believe are already in place). That would need longer timelines, though.