[Sunderdeep]

I believe it is the same MS Swift that is sold in India and got 2 stars in GNCAP. Looks like Latin NCAP has upped their safety standards and hence ratings are reduced to Zero.

In India, this car sell like hot cakes despite having safer alternatives in B2 hatchback segment. Not only OEM but I would equally blame buyers and Government safety norms responsible for letting such cars sell in each part of the country. Anything less than 3 stars in GNCAP is definitely not road worthy, leave aside travelling with the family.

Regarding Renault Duster's Zero in Latin NCAP, their Triber has scored 4 stars in GNCAP lately and I am still not able to digest that Triber on paper will provide me more safety than a fully loaded Seltos GTX.

[motorworks]

Sorry, but I’m unable to understand this! The same India-Made Swift with 2 airbags got 2 stars in the GNCAP, right? So how is it come off far worse in the Latin NCAP? Has the Latin NCAP become more stringent than the GNCAP? The cars could be different too, while we are sure that the Swift tested at GNCAP was a made in India and made for India right hand drive model, this one tested by Latin NCAP is a left hand drive model, but yet made in India.

Either the car is the same with just the driving orientation being different, and the Latin NCAP has different and higher testing parameters or the cars are different. I can’t see any other explanation.

[chinchu.c]

Speaking of India-specific testing norms, the Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Programme (BNVSAP) was supposed to start functioning from 2017 onwards. It remains, as some members have pointed out above, only on paper as of today.

The frontal crash test in BNVSAP was to be done at 56 kmph, as per reports. Here's one new link https://m.economictimes.com/industry...w/47274743.cms

[stallmaster]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Sorry, but I’m unable to understand this! The same India-Made Swift with 2 airbags got 2 stars in the GNCAP, right? So how is it come off far worse in the Latin NCAP?

Right. Now do I deduct 2 points from Nexon and Altroz too? The lack of explanation is driving the rumours. Communication is important.

The 2nd gen Dacia Duster also scored like 3 stars in EuroNCAP, which is arguably more rigorous than GNCAP. Why 0 star here though?

[Ritz2010]

Thanks for shedding more light about crash tests - they are not just how car fare on collision tests but more deeper (like multi channel ABS and so on).

Cost cutting is so evident in India when Japanese giants like Honda don't offer pretensioners in seat belt. (Referring to Jazz here) No offence to Jazz owners, I myself considered one and only last week my sister took delivery of Jazz initially considering 2021 Swift.

More than car safety we need road manners taught and enforced I believe. Yesterday I was driving in Bengaluru's traffic and felt edged out by fellow cars at every opportunity.

Ita no more yellow boards and two wheelers are problematic ones but growing number of people getting to drive without drive manners.

Sorry for going off topic about manners in the crash testing thread.

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by stallmaster

The 2nd gen Dacia Duster also scored like 3 stars in EuroNCAP, which is arguably more rigorous than GNCAP. Why 0 star here though?

If Maruti and even Hyundai-Kia can make special "unsafe edition" cars for a particular market like India, then what's stopping Renault from doing the same cost cutting for the Latin Market?

Most manufacturers are opportunists who will take advantage of any loophole/opportunity to cut costs even at the expense of safety. This duster looks to be older gen. Please correct me if I am wrong

[superguy282]

Originally Posted by stallmaster

The lack of explanation is driving the rumours. Communication is important.

This is another major downside of NCAP, the amount of info up for debate is ridiculous. There's no clarity on variant-wise safety, safety of facelifts, Region wise safety scores, etc. and we're all left with rummaging through crash manuals of various NCAPs trying to put it all together. Even something like the Body Shell Integrity being "Unstable" is just mentioned with absolutely nothing to interpret what it means. Does it mean the car itself is falling apart? Then how does it handle well? And more importantly how is it being sold legally? Then Does it pertain to the post crash strength of the structure? We just don't know.

[lemedico]

we call these cars tin-cans, but I am certain that tin-cans are stronger!

This repeated news disappoints me. As a shareholder, even more. There has to be some lobbying to deem illegal, such vehicles to be allowed on sale. Or perhaps an NCAP linked insurance premium system to discourage the sale of meagre star rated cars.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by superguy282

This is another major downside of NCAP, the amount of info up for debate is ridiculous. There's no clarity on variant-wise safety, safety of facelifts, Region wise safety scores, etc. and we're all left with rummaging through crash manuals of various NCAPs trying to put it all together. Even something like the Body Shell Integrity being "Unstable" is just mentioned with absolutely nothing to interpret what it means. Does it mean the car itself is falling apart? Then how does it handle well? And more importantly how is it being sold legally? Then Does it pertain to the post crash strength of the structure? We just don't know.

Forget everything else, GNCAP in India is a voluntary non-official program at this point of time. Not all cars sold in India have been tested yet, current or past. So there is no point analyzing NCAP results to derive information for meaningful changes or even linking it to some regulatory process.

[DonHyd]

Just imagine S-presso in the place of swift. 😂.

Personally, I believe that a car is safe only as long as it is not involved in any crash. Real world accidents don't happen like crash tests. Even an S Class can't protect its owner in a serious high speed crash. While I am all for safer cars, I make an exception in case of entry level cars as their primary use case is city driving at sub 50-60 speeds.

[jetsetgo08]

The results are not surprising. Going through the Latin NCAP protocol document and their podcast on how they arrived at the scoring, gives some info. Links below -

Protocol

Video

TLDR; Latin NCAP has stricter tests, as compared to GNCAP. Most GNCAP 4-5 star rated cars are likely to be relegated to 2-3 stars without side, curtain, knee airbags (XUV300 with 6 airbags could be an exception), conclusively it might be worse for 2-3 star rated cars. Come 2022, the rules would get even more stringent.

[AJ56]

What’s surprising is seeing other members’ reaction to a tin can from a mediocre car company (that sells well only in India) failing a crash test with zero stars, what else did anyone expect? As long as Suzuki’s top line isn’t affected, they will do nothing to address the safety issues, why should they when people buy their cars anyway. It’s high time people considered crash test scores strongly in their car buying decision (even for cheap cars), basic safety should be non negotiable. Cheers.

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Sorry, but I’m unable to understand this! The same India-Made Swift with 2 airbags got 2 stars in the GNCAP, right? So how is it come off far worse in the Latin NCAP? Has the Latin NCAP become more stringent than the GNCAP? The cars could be different too, while we are sure that the Swift tested at GNCAP was a made in India and made for India right hand drive model, this one tested by Latin NCAP is a left hand drive model, but yet made in India.

Originally Posted by stallmaster

Right. Now do I deduct 2 points from Nexon and Altroz too? The lack of explanation is driving the rumours. Communication is important.

The 2nd gen Dacia Duster also scored like 3 stars in EuroNCAP, which is arguably more rigorous than GNCAP. Why 0 star here though?

There are various NCAPs. Global NCAP, Euro NCAP, Latin NCAP etc. and each of these have their own testing parameters.

General order of requirements for higher score:
Euro NCAP >> Latin NCAP > Global NCAP.

If a 2 star car in global NCAP scores 0 in Latin NCAP, this does not mean that a 5 star Volvo will become 3 star too.

Even NCAP requirements have been changing by the way.

E.g. FIAT Grande Punto scored 5 star in Euro NCAP in 2005 but the same car scored 0 few years back.

Reason? Euro NCAP has evolved with time and now requires additional safety features that FIAT Grande Punto lacks, owing to its 2005 development.

Similarly, Dacia Duster and Indian Duster have no direct comparison as both are different cars (if manufacturer decided to Indian-ize the Duster here by giving less less solid car).

Also, a same, made in India car will have different score in different NCAPs (generally, lowest in Euro NCAP, highest in Global NCAP).

Consider this like an entrance exam. Merit/score goes lower as the exam gets tougher (more stringent requirements in Euro NCAP and Latin NCAP vs Global NCAP for example).

Another example is the system requirements for running newer software. Our current PC will keep scoring lower in the “Can you run it?” benchmark tests for videogames because the requirements keep increasing.

[Sids85]

Surprised to see the Duster getting Zero stars but not so much to see the Swift knowing Maruti. I am sure Maruti spokespersons will give replies with the usual pompous attitude.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by DonHyd

Real world accidents don't happen like crash tests. Even an S Class can't protect its owner in a serious high speed crash. While I am all for safer cars, I make an exception in case of entry level cars as their primary use case is city driving at sub 50-60 speeds.

This has been repeated so often without any credible basis. The crash tests are designed to simulate real world crashes and do so quite well. Majority of accidents are frontal offset or side crashes. So this oft repeated litany of how crashes happen differently in India is completely incorrect. Of course, a crash test can't cover every possible scenario but at least it gives us a good idea of the construction quality of a vehicle in a real test. Otherwise we would only be able to try and measure how much the panels flex and how solid the doors seem to close. Please review a list of crashes in India and you will find that the vast majority of them are frontal ones followed by side impacts.

Coming to your second point, even a car travelling at 60kmph in the city needs to be safe. Making a vehicle safer and adding ABS, ESC and airbags costs very little but only government regulation will force the manufacturers to do so. So the first step is to have hard evidence in order to create public awareness. If we had no tests, then how would you confront Maruti Suzuki regarding safety? They would claim their vehicles are safe and meet all rules and guidelines.