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Old 31st August 2021, 18:14   #1
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Default France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

France has perhaps become the second country in the Europe after Germany, to slash speeds for motor vehicles to just 30 kmph in the capital city. In Berlin such a law is applicable. In Paris, speeds of above 30 kmph will attract penal action by the law enforcing authorities. The law breakers will be fined at least 90 euros. Their enforcement processes are quite stringent and very few dare to break the law to face punitive action.

Government sources say its for safety with a view to reduce accidents and make Paris more pedestrian friendly. The report says that average speeds in the most congested areas is 16 kmph as of now. Most vehicle drivers have been left fuming. Cab drivers say their fares will shoot up, while commercial vehicle drivers say delays in the supply chain process will become common place. More bike lanes have come up in Paris and pedestrian and cyclist spaces have been increased. Mayor Anne Hidalgo has taken such a decision and says she intends to reduce accidents and check pollution. She has already restricted or banned motor vehicle traffic on several streets.

About checking pollution, one is not very sure as such low speeds may lead to drives in lower gears with high revs for the engines and higher emission of polluting exhaust gases. But as regards accidents, these will surely be checked.

Now very, very rarely someone will drive a Ferrari in downtown Paris to make the supercar's presence felt in the traffic. They would prefer to drive to exit Paris at 30 kmph and move out of the city for long drives.

Other French cities, such as Lille, Montpellier, Grenoble, Nantes and Rennes have similar 30 kmph speed limiting laws effective at present. In other parts of Europe, Lausanne in Switzerland or Hamburg, Bremen, Munich and Berlin in Germany also have similar speed limits for vehicles, the report says.

All said and done, its an "out of the box" thinking and hopefully some research has gone into making such upright decisions in quite a few European cities. India needs to take cue and start with some sectors in its major cities, limiting vehicle speeds and offering more space for cyclists and pedestrians. It's high time that we wake up from the slumber, adding vehicles and more vehicles that move in cities without any speed checks. Valuable lives are being lost due to the laidback attitude of our planners.

For details the link:-

https://newschant.com/auto/france-sl...h-here-is-why/

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 31st August 2021 at 18:39.
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Old 31st August 2021, 18:54   #2
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
India needs to take cue and start with some sectors in its major cities, limiting vehicle speeds and offering more space for cyclists and pedestrians.
We have 20-30-40kmph speed limit already in most of the cities. (we also have real visible speed limit boards in most places).

What required is enforcement of the same. Oh yes, some strict driving license tests as well.
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Old 31st August 2021, 19:54   #3
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
France has perhaps become the second country in the Europe after Germany, to slash speeds for motor vehicles to just 30 kmph in the capital city.
At least somewhere in the world, some leaders care about sustainability. Creating a favourable environment for pedestrians, cyclist and public transit is the only way cities can sustain growth. No number of lanes will ever be enough to accommodate cars for each person. We need to actively discourage the use of cars for every little neighbourhood chore.

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Government sources say its for safety with a view to reduce accidents and make Paris more pedestrian friendly. The report says that average speeds in the most congested areas is 16 kmph as of now. Most vehicle drivers have been left fuming.
Some of the drivers only. The decision was actually put to vote and 61% of the voters voted in favour of it.
Source:
https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/le...BPEEMXIPQM.php

Quote:
About checking pollution, one is not very sure as such low speeds may lead to drives in lower gears with high revs for the engines and higher emission of polluting exhaust gases. But as regards accidents, these will surely be checked.
It will decrease pollution as making streets more pedestrian and cyclist-friendly at the same time annoying drivers will definitely lead to a shift to cleaner means of transport. I don't know about Paris, but in the US 48% of car trips are less than 3 miles long and 20% of them are less than 1 mile long. The US has always developed its cities purely focused on cars and it is no wonder they are the biggest carbon emitter in the world.

Source:
https://cal.streetsblog.org/2019/09/...in-u-s-cities/

Quote:
All said and done, its an "out of the box" thinking and hopefully some research has gone into making such upright decisions in quite a few European cities. India needs to take cue and start with some sectors in its major cities, limiting vehicle speeds and offering more space for cyclists and pedestrians. It's high time that we wake up from the slumber, adding vehicles and more vehicles that move in cities without any speed checks. Valuable lives are being lost due to the laidback attitude of our planners.
Nobody knows what Indian planners actually do. Daily we see numerous accidents all across the country involving pedestrians which could easily have been avoided if there was a protected sidewalk on the road. Even if they build a sidewalk there are always obstacles placed on them like trees, bins etc. Pedestrians are treated as aliens on the streets which are not supposed to be there. I don't think India will ever catch up to the developed world in terms of urban planning.
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Old 31st August 2021, 20:11   #4
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Limiting the speed of automobiles to 30 km/h seems to be an excellent option for a city like Bangalore. The maximum speed one can drive on most of the roads is around 30 km/h. Central Business district should cap the speed limit at 15 Km/h. Formalizing these speed limits will also help in reducing road rage considerably.

Speed limits would bring some order to the traffic on these congested roads and also reduce the harassment at the hands of Traffic police for crossing the multiple speed limits (hidden) on most of our roads.
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Old 31st August 2021, 20:45   #5
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Is this a joke!? Think about it, honestly this sounds more like a way to chase away tax paying working professionals from cities! Citizens pay a lot of money in terms of taxes for their car as well as fuel.

For a substantial number of people in urban cities a car is not a luxury, it is meant to transport a person in reasonable conditions from one place to another in furtherance of valuable economic activity.

If government wants to dictate conditions of travel then it should provide/enable a reasonable alternative. It is against the public interest to lay down such ridiculous speed limits.

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Originally Posted by drivingmelody View Post
Limiting the speed of automobiles to 30 km/h seems to be an excellent option for a city like Bangalore. The maximum speed one can drive on most of the roads is around 30 km/h. Central Business district should cap the speed limit at 15 Km/h. Formalizing these speed limits will also help in reducing road rage considerably...
At that "Max-Speed", it would take atleast 3 hours for a working professional to drive say 30kms (2 way) on potholed roads thru the signals, twists & turns among all kinds of bikes & auto-fellows zig-zaging to cut them off. This is apart from the rage it'd cause to hold back an ordinary passenger car that can easily accelerate from 30 to 60kmph in <4secs.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 31st August 2021 at 20:50.
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Old 31st August 2021, 21:06   #6
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

It might be practical to cycle around Paris but definitely not in hot and humid India. Hope nobody takes inspiration here.

If they want to incentivise riding bicycles, I wonder what's the average commute distance for an average person in Paris. I would like to see the numbers, assumptions and tests/experiments done to conclude that this is the way forward.

I guess the age of driving cars for pleasure will soon become a thing of the past. Glad that I'm able to enjoy it today which will be to the envy of my future offsprings.
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Old 31st August 2021, 23:40   #7
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Paris, from what I remember from the visit is a very crowded city. The streets are quite narrow with heavy street parking. I doubt our taxi did anything more than 30-40 kph at most. Very few roads are wide, like Champs Elysees or those around Eiffel. The posted speed might higher driving speeds like 50-60. This is not going include the suburbs or the highways surrounding Paris for sure.

The city does have a very good metro network, which if I remember is more than a century old. Was among the best connected cities I had travelled to. The only time we took a taxi was from and to the airport.

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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
It might be practical to cycle around Paris but definitely not in hot and humid India.
Not humid, but summer months of June-July-August might get hot for riding. Also its not fun to ride in rain or snow showers. It might not be practical to ride through the year.
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Old 1st September 2021, 06:57   #8
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

I get the feeling that this is done partly for safety and partly to disincentivise driving per se. But not everything can be directly copied. Driving at 30 kmph is literally frustrating beyond belief specially when the road is otherwise open.

Weather:

European city weather is far more conducive to cycling to work or walking outdoors than India. Try cycling to all your meetings in Mumbai. You will be drenched by the time your bicycle is out of the cycle stand

Road conditions:

We are famous for half assed copy / paste. Adopt 30 kmph but don’t clean up our pavements, don’t make rideable roads, dont have top quality functional public transport. You cannot cherry pick one aspect and not adopt others.

Last edited by Axe77 : 1st September 2021 at 07:00.
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Old 1st September 2021, 07:42   #9
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Understand the rationale - urban planners are focusing on bringing back the human element back to cities. With a combination of bikes, metro, trams, buses, people are embracing a better social life and cities are becoming more lively. Needless to say, reducing speed limits for cars will discourage people from driving which will ultimately lead to lesser pollution.

Videos on this YT channel tells you how city planning is done all wrong many developed countries;



Where European cities are reversing course, most of US and Canada are still extremely car dependent. Don't want to go OT, but for urban design of a cities in the Indian context, please watch the talks by Naresh Narasimhan on YT.
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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
Is this a joke!? Think about it, honestly this sounds more like a way to chase away tax paying working professionals from cities! Citizens pay a lot of money in terms of taxes for their car as well as fuel.
Absolutely not. Makes sense in the European context where many people don't really drive to work. In fact, it may free up more time for people if the government succeeds in converting a part of the roads into bike lanes and giving people better infrastructure to safely get around in bikes.

There are other ways as to control traffic as well - London has been imposing a congestion charge for decades now. It started at £2 IIRC and is £15 today. Many Brits take the tube or the bus if not bicycle or taxi.

Sure, the idea of 30km/h speed limit might not be directly applicable in the Indian context; With sufficient public transport and good last mile connectivity, Indian governments can also get people out of their cars and free up out gridlocked roads.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 1st September 2021 at 07:43.
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Old 1st September 2021, 08:28   #10
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Guys, 30 kmph is painfully slow on an empty road. Case in point = try JJ Flyover. It has speed cameras, so all cars drive at 30 kmph. You will either get frustrated or go to sleep. Not saying anyone should drive at 80 kmph on such a road, but at least something more reasonable like 40 (or 50?) kmph should be permitted.

Will agree with 30 kmph for the really dense roads like say, Linking Road in Bombay (where the main market area is). But having a blanket 30 kmph on "most streets" is quite silly.

Hope our babus don't get inspired after reading this news with their morning cuppa today
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Old 1st September 2021, 09:41   #11
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Guys, 30 kmph is painfully slow on an empty road.
It is not the open road. It is narrow city streets, where touching 30 kph would be a challenge. This BBC article clarifies a bit more.

Two-thirds of the city was already subject to the limit before Monday's change, which has been pushed through by Mayor Anne Hidalgo. Several key routes will remain exempt though.
These include the Champs Elysées (50km/h) and the main ring road, the Boulevard Périphérique (70 km/h).


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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Makes sense in the European context where many people don't really drive to work.
That's a misconception. In huge metropolis like Paris where you have an office in downtown. Taking public transportation is quicker than taking your car. This does not hold true if the workplaces are in the suburbs, small towns, villages.

The place I worked for 5 years in Italy is a 1 mile radius radius village, which had people commute 10-50 km to work, and hardly anyone took the bus. On weekdays, roadside parking is loaded to the gills even in such a small place. Only high schoolers and University going students patronised the buses and the frequency was also in line with it. This will hold good for any workplace outside major metropolis.

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With sufficient public transport and good last mile connectivity, Indian governments can also get people out of their cars and free up out gridlocked roads.
Such a move will not work without very good metro connectivity. Buses simply are not practical. Paris, the city in question, has in excess of dozen metro lines which are developed over a century. Indian cities are just warming up to the concept of metro trains only in the last decade. Madras or Bombay have grown well past the electric train lines.
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Old 1st September 2021, 09:59   #12
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Originally Posted by drivingmelody View Post
Speed limits would bring some order to the traffic on these congested roads and also reduce the harassment at the hands of Traffic police for crossing the multiple speed limits (hidden) on most of our roads.
We in Bengaluru have a wonderful 6 + 4 lane Ring road which is dug up in few places. However at places where the 10 lanes are fine, there is a speed limit of 40 kmph with cops with radar guns.

I'm not sure any city in the world has 10 lane roads with 40 kmh limits. Or flyovers with manned signals for the matter.

Would be happy to see speed limits in pedestrian roads like Church street or commercial street.
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Old 1st September 2021, 10:28   #13
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys, 30 kmph is painfully slow on an empty road. Case in point = try JJ Flyover. It has speed cameras, so all cars drive at 30 kmph. You will either get frustrated or go to sleep. Not saying anyone should drive at 80 kmph on such a road, but at least something more reasonable like 40 (or 50?) kmph should be permitted.

Will agree with 30 kmph for the really dense roads like say, Linking Road in Bombay (where the main market area is). But having a blanket 30 kmph on "most streets" is quite silly.

Hope our babus don't get inspired after reading this news with their morning cuppa today
It does not mean any no speed above 30kmph anywhere in the city.
A map of speed limits in Berlin for reference.
France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph-0ace1def331abd343b2f008839203802.png
The thing is that there are three types of roads:
  1. Access roads or streets: Used to access houses, shops, offices etc. Roads are narrow with pedestrians and cars very close together. Hence the speed limit of 30kmph.
  2. Distributor or collector roads: Used to join access roads to high traffic flow roads and to carry traffic within a part of the city. The roads are wide and the speed limit is around 50kmph. The pedestrian and cycle paths are there alongside but are well separated from motor traffic.
  3. High traffic flow roads: Access controlled roads with 3 or more lanes that connect one part of the city to another like ring roads. Pedestrians and cyclists are not allowed on them. The speed limit is >100kmph.
In Google Maps, the JJ flyover looks like a distributor road to me with no crossroads connecting to it, so even if Mumbai gets influenced by this, the speed limit won't be 30kmph on it.

Here is a video for a better explanation of how road networks in cities should be designed.

Last edited by YD14 : 1st September 2021 at 10:36. Reason: Added video link.
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Old 1st September 2021, 11:06   #14
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

Thinking about safety and environment is always a good point. But 30 kmph IMO is too slow!
Like others mentioned, then it's better to restrict cars to some core traffic areas but provide alternate connectivity and good parking spaces. These can be rapid transit systems, electric shuttles/monorail pods or bicycle hubs or walkways.

This means you can't overtake any vehicle. It's like Bandini vs Ken miles moment where their cars max out and take eternity to cross the other, only here it's the rule. Surely, will add frustration.

Clutches need frequent replacement, or redesign to operate for more cycles/shifts and slip wear and also gearing. Manufacturers can even think of a crawl mode to ease the jerkiness of low gears. Thankfully, Europe has more auto transmission vehicles.

Last edited by saikarthik : 1st September 2021 at 11:08.
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Old 1st September 2021, 13:35   #15
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Default re: France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys, 30 kmph is painfully slow on an empty road. Case in point = try JJ Flyover. It has speed cameras, so all cars drive at 30 kmph. You will either get frustrated or go to sleep. Not saying anyone should drive at 80 kmph on such a road, but at least something more reasonable like 40 (or 50?) kmph should be permitted.

Will agree with 30 kmph for the really dense roads like say, Linking Road in Bombay (where the main market area is). But having a blanket 30 kmph on "most streets" is quite silly.

Hope our babus don't get inspired after reading this news with their morning cuppa today
Completely agree!!

30 kph as a blanket rule is just crazy and will drive people insane.. For market area's, school lanes, extremely busy area etc it should work, but imagine a wide internal city highway, marine drive etc and driving at 30 kph which is not even 4th gear!! Hope we do not copy paste!!
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