[karanddd]

https://advrider.com/city-of-london-...h-speed-limit/

As part of London's "Vision Zero" scheme, the idea behind which is reducing road fatalities to zero, there is talk of reducing the in-city speed limit for automobiles to 15mph (bearing in mind ofc that technically the CoL is a small part of greater London).

I was wondering what people on here think about this. I think it's great. Cities all over Europe are waking up to the fact that automobiles cause more harm than good. The future of mobility is a combination of public transport and walking, and this is one step closer to that.

In the pre-automobile era you could go for a walk in a city and not have to keep a watchful eye over one or two ton machines hurtling down at you at rapid speed. You could let your kids run around. Now everything's got to be on a tight leash.

India is very far behind in this respect. Indian cities are already some of the least walkable in the world. We've sold ourselves out to multi-lane high speed roads within city limits and accepted the fact that neither us nor our kids can walk anywhere in peace in any of our cities. Even worse, we consider that to be progress.

The only upshot I see of rising fuel prices is that sooner or later they're going to be so high that no-one will want to drive and the automobile industry will start winding down. Maybe then we'll be forced to reckon with genuine alternatives, like making our cities walkable to start with.

[Porcupine]

Certain roads in the City of London limits have already been at 20mph for a while now, and this 15mph reduction was being discussed for a while so it's not really surprising. Some of those roads are very narrow and 20mph realistically does feel very normal, unless you're driving post 9-10pm when the City of London roads are quieter.

The district is a much smaller area than most people would realise, it's only about 3 square kms, and ideally you should avoid driving there in the day anyway - especially with congestion charge/green tax being active.

[Kosfactor]

The practical next step for such european countries will be eliminating all motorized transportation, horses etc and only allow people to walk wearing helmets and riot protection gear. Saved a lot of lives then.

[narayans80]

There was similar thread about Paris a month or so back. This is nothing different. These cities (or section of cities) in question were not high speed runways to begin with. Speeds would already be in the region of limits being enforced. So I find no point in getting worked up on that.

Originally Posted by karanddd

In the pre-automobile era you could go for a walk in a city and not have to keep a watchful eye over one or two ton machines hurtling down at you at rapid speed. You could let your kids run around. Now everything's got to be on a tight leash.

India is very far behind in this respect. Indian cities are already some of the least walkable in the world. We've sold ourselves out to multi-lane high speed roads within city limits and accepted the fact that neither us nor our kids can walk anywhere in peace in any of our cities. Even worse, we consider that to be progress.

The problem is on both sides. Neither are motorists considerate, nor are pedestrians. And I'd trust 2 ton or 12 ton monsters to stop than pesky squids . Every day I commute I see at least a dozen squids jump the red light at every major traffic signal. On the other side, there are pedestrians who walk on the road, middle of the fast lane when there is a footpath available. And overbridges and tunnels rust to pieces. Heck we even outwit trains and cross tracks.

In short problem is in attitude, nothing to do with size of roads.

The only upshot I see of rising fuel prices is that sooner or later they're going to be so high that no-one will want to drive and the automobile industry will start winding down.

100 rupee petrol didn't do a damn thing. All the noise is only on social media and forums. Its business as usual in the real world!

[BlackPearl]

It will be a good move if it is implemented on the back of a proper research and not based on the whims and fancies of a person. Anything that reduces accidents will be welcome. 15mph is almost 25 kmph, which is absolutely fine I think.

[anjan_c2007]

Paris and some other cities in France have done it limiting speeds at 30 kmph since more than a month. Other French cities, such as Lille, Montpellier, Grenoble, Nantes and Rennes have similar 30 kmph speed limiting laws effective at present. In other parts of Europe, Lausanne in Switzerland or Hamburg, Bremen, Munich and Berlin in Germany also have similar speed limits for vehicles. London follows these cities, but the British are conservative with only 15 mph (about 23kmph).

A thread from August 2021

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...30-kmph-2.html (France tightens speed limit for vehicles in Paris to just 30 kmph)

What next? The Western influence in our very own Ministry of Road Transport and Highways is reaching its peak!

Hence, Delhi followed by Mumbai could be under the MoRTH scanner. Soon Mr Gadkari could make such announcements followed by notifications and ultimately it can become law.

But outside these Metros speeds upto 140 kmph on expressway's would be legal.

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Hence, Delhi followed by Mumbai could be under the MoRTH scanner. Soon Mr Gadkari could make such announcements followed by notifications and ultimately it can become law.

Except that would require a lot of infrastructure in terms of camera systems which might not be easy. In London it's already present due to existing laws and congestion tax laws, as is the case in the other European cities.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by Porcupine

Except that would require a lot of infrastructure in terms of camera systems which might not be easy. In London it's already present due to existing laws and congestion tax laws, as is the case in the other European cities.

Far more important than the camera systems is the infrastructure required to enable walking. The current numbers of cars on the road is far too high in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore etc. The only way to reduce that is to make walking and public transportation both a more accessible and attractive option.

I've never seen security checks to get inside metro stations in any other country. Pedestrian foot over-bridges or underpasses are abominable. For old people or people with disabilities having to cross the street becomes a huge challenge due to the steps.

Bus and metro service needs to become more frequent, footpaths need to become wider (certainly wider than the road on which automobiles ply), and hard dividers on roads need to go, as they make crossing the street on foot impossible.

I've seen so many people who have to hop over the metal railing that divides the two lanes of Aurobindo Marg in Delhi. For any foreigner who visits the city it makes for a pretty ridiculous sight.

Walking is a natural human action, and one should be able to walk to various places that one needs to go. It's not a special activity reserved for parks. Freeing up walking will go hand in hand with the necessary change in mentality required, that walking is a means of mobility, not just exercise or punishment for being too poor to buy a car or scooter.

I say all this with great pessimism however. The trend that I've observed both here on the forum and in life around me is that people want more lanes in their roads, more automobile friendly laws, more usage of cars, with no regard for how choked and congested our cities have become. And I don't see anything really changing, but one must nonetheless remain hopeful.

[ajmat]

If it is within the congestion zone, its no big deal as most cars only do those speeds anyway. The only roads where you could speed a bit are around Pall Mall, The Mall and where the A4 terminates.

[Sran]

City of London is different from London, with separate mayor, laws and police. It is merely 3sqkm in area.

[Hayek]

Think if restricted to the City, it is probably ok. Please note that the City of London is very different from what most people consider as part of the city of London - even Big Ben is in the City of Westminster, not the City of London. It’s equivalent of having a 25 kmph speed limit in Fort, Bombay. (Not even extending to Nariman Point).

[for_cars1]

There is absolutely no need to ever own a car if you're living in London with such excellent tube/public transportation. Its actually a headache to own a car there.

[Thilak29]

Having lived in this city, there is absolutely no need to own a car at all (irrespective of family size). Public transport covers all your needs , intercity commutes are easy.

[turbowhistle]

When you live in the bang center of the city then you won’t need the car at all. This should deter people from owning a vehicle paired with enormous parking rates , congestion rates and greenzone tax. Plus the dedicated parking for your car every night would run into 150-200£/€ per month.

Similar approach is there in Berlin as well, I stay just outside the main ring for Berlin and rarely take the car in the center. Most of my friends or colleagues ( including myself) are not keen on taking the car in the center. In last two years, I have taken my car just once to the office which is in center of Berlin, that too for picking up screen for home office.

Usually parking charges are 2-4 euro an hour so overnight parking or a full day parking runs in 20-40 euros everyday.

Berlin also has 30kmph zones for all the smaller roads and that has been working pretty well. It’s not too slow but thanks to traffic, you can’t do much more than that. Along with safety, I feel congestion is also a major problem in most city centers.

Usually when you are traveling to any big cities in Europe which has big city centers or old towns, the best way is to keep the car back in the hotel and just walk around/use public transport.

[smarth.katyal]

I think this is a good move, it might help dissuade more people from using cars and push them towards public transport and walking. However, these other modes will have to offer themselves as a much more viable alternative than they do now.

Digressing a little, I've been living in Rotterdam for over 2 years now and if anyone knows safe road designs, it's the Dutch. As someone mentioned, we've become so dependent on cars for transportation even within cities that it's hard to live without them now. I was of the opinion that driving is a necessity and wide, multi-lane roads are a good indicator of how "developed" a city/country is. But living in The Netherlands, I've, more or less, completely changed my mind about this.

Car-free cities are much more enjoyable to live in, more breathable, less stressful, and also cheaper for individuals and the government/municipalities. The one thing it's not- easy. It requires a lot of planning, anticipating future requirements, changes in how people perceive cars, and financial investment. In India and around the world, people have been conditioned to think that cars are more than just mobility objects but also a status symbol, a sign of growth, and give you freedom. What I've learnt from the Dutch is that if done correctly, you can still have all these things and more without cars.

If anyone is interested, here is a YouTube channel that I watch quite often which talks about why we need less cars and more people friendly cities: YouTube: NotJustBikes