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Old 5th December 2021, 13:02   #31
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

You know what a really misleading claim looks like?

Here
Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?-20211129_134233.jpg

I also agree that Tata needs to send their flagships for crash testing. But what's the point in questioning crash test result of facelifted Nexon? Has the platform changed, or atleast has there been structural changes made? No, they have made a few cosmetic changes and the weight hasn't changed too.

Let's say, even if the nexon scores a bit less than pre-facelift, it would still be a 4 star car.

When we don't question Maruti for shamelessly claiming their heartec platform to be safe,

When we don't question Kia for selling a barely 3 star Seltos for 20 lakhs,

When we don't question Toyota for not sending their hot selling Innova crysta or for that matter, any Innova model ever for crash testing,

When we don't question Figo triplets for their "unstable bodyshell" but consider them safe as they have 3 star rating, we consider Renault triber to be safe inspite of "unstable bodyshell" as it has 4 stars but consider Tiago unsafe because it also has an unstable body shell but with a 4 star rating,

When we don't question Honda for not sending any of their cars to crash testing,

But

We question every ad & claim of Tata, which is the only manufacturer that provides multiple safe cars under 10 lakhs on road budget today.

It is a little unfair. Isn't it?

For the question that your thread title carries, is Tata the safety Saint they pretend to be?

They neither pretend to be safety saints and nor are they one. They are among the very few manufacturers that put effort in making safer cars, unlike the safety sinners like Maruti and Hyundai.

Bashing Tata for their safety ratings & ad campaigns and not bashing maruti/hyundai is like punishing that kid who scores 70% and ignoring the ones that failed in the exams.

We need to be questioning the market leader more.

Last edited by PrasannaDhana : 5th December 2021 at 13:24.
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:32   #32
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post

Let's say, even if the nexon scores a bit less than pre-facelift, it would still be a 4 star car. :
They could do that but if it scores 4* they it will no longer be the safest CSUV in the segment.

Also I feel its not an issue with any manufacturer rather that of ad industry in India on the whole.

Companies doing ads can potray anything and everything without a shred of evidence supporting it.
Main reason being no repercussions for these ads by any authority.

So we can't blame any manufacturer for exploiting the system.

Yes we can argue that it's morally and ethically wrong to exploit these loopholes on part of the manufacturer. But then that's ethics not business.
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:32   #33
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

I read through the initial post, a couple of times and still canít point a finger at what really is the issue?

Theyíve done something that others are struggling or conveniently ignoring.

They and M&M are pioneering a new thought process for potential car buyers who talk about safety which hitherto, was never a topic.

They are giving good cars with good designs and are flaunting it. Why have a problem or dig deep to find problems, when itís their time in the sunshine?
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:37   #34
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

I feel the only purpose of this thread is to bash Tata, as all the Tata's "suspicious activities" the OP claims, are already discussed in the forum in the respective car's threads. As far as Tata not testing their flagship products, the oil filter intrusion in the cabin is an open secret. No company would want to showcase the chink in their armor !
PS not a Tata fan boy, just calling a spade a spade !
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:41   #35
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

This thread, created purely for the purpose of showing one's dislike for a specific brand, leaves a very bad taste. It kind of tries to punish somebody for trying to do some good and leave out the others who are not even putting in any effort to do good anyway.
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:54   #36
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Tata motors may not be saint, but among the hoard of sinners, not committing a sin is in itself saintly. Nobody is being forced to buy Tata cars, nor is Tata preventing one from buying any car. Anyone who has an issue with GNCAP has more choices of cars not tested by them, please buy those. Why bother about crash testing and all? After all you may have skills which ordinary bhpians lack when it comes to make an assumption about safety of cars. I can't understand the need of this useless debate on an even useless thread.
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Old 5th December 2021, 13:55   #37
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

I have a few points here. Officially Tata does not claim Nexon is 5 star rated anymore. But they did at one point of time. The aura/memory of that, is used successfully by sales associates.

For the Harrier/Safari twins, another reason for not getting them tested might be rollover risk; are these twins more prone to rollover compared to competition? Can someone share if NCAP checks for this?
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Old 5th December 2021, 14:28   #38
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Burn View Post
They could do that but if it scores 4* they it will no longer be the safest CSUV in the segment.
XUV 3OO remains the safest C-SUV in the segment.
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:01   #39
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Sorry. I don't get the point of this thread. In the same way, we can start threads like 'Is Maruti really the mileage king as it claims to be?'. Is Kia/Hyundai really the luxury and perfect SUV brand it claims to be? Is MG really as British as it claims to be?

Credit where it's due. Atleast manufacturers like Tata and Mahindra have started discussions on the safety front among general public. Nowany people no longer ask 'kitna deti hai' but rather also ask kitna safe hai. That in itself is a step in the right direction. Now other manufacturers may overtake Tata and Mahindra in the safety front eventually. But these guys are the one that created the buzz among the general public w.r.t. safety, much like how Maruti started the small, light weight car trend.
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:09   #40
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theAutomaniac View Post
So why is the Nexon's 5 star safety not advertised? Is it not a 5 star rated car anymore? If not, what else could be the reason for the same?
Simple. All Ncap results are valid only for a year from time of testing. All manufacturers are free to modify the cars without notice eventually (like deletion of features from original brochure list). This is why I roll my eyes when people on this very enthusiasts forum declare an outdated Polo, Rapid or a Punto is a much safer car than a 3 star Seltos. Fun fact, the Fiat Punto aka the Ncaps safest car from circa 2005 scored 0 stars in 2017 re-testing. Assuming Fiat still sold the Punto here, they would be taken to court if they highlighted the original Ncap ratings to promote it as a safer car. This is why the Nexon doesn't show ncap ratings on website anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theAutomaniac View Post
These doubts often make me think, is Tata being too casual about their image and is just using Global NCAP as a marketing gimmick at this point??
The bigger worry is why a non profit organization like Gncap that existed prior to 2015 as an independent entity that would evaluate safety of cars by buying it like you and me from a dealership (rule used to be they'd buy base model to evaluate basic safety) have resorted to joining hands with the same people they're supposed to evaluate and end up releasing crash test results timed with launch dates of said car. The crash test video also happens to be of the top of the line variant so it looks more like a marketing strategy to casual viewers.

This is akin to an independent third party auditing agency that monitors govt expenditures joining hands with government to guide them where to spend. Sure it sounds nice that instead of criticising the financial decisions of the government the agency is overseeing where its allocated. But we all know what happens when entities entrusted to keep a watch on government activities end up in the pockets of said government
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:13   #41
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

The original post seems to be nitpicking, interpreting and shadow fighting - on what is NOT told or done. What is NOT told or done is open to any number of interpretations. Shouldnít we be more interested about what has been done?
Tata has surely set the cat amongst the pigeons asking Ďkitna Deta haií. And they did it after putting in the time and effort of manufacturing such cars.
Now, I canít think of a reason why Volkswagen/ Ford did not think of this aspect when they came in to the market as they were already there. Or they disposed it off as not worthwhile at that time. I donít remember any ads extolling the safety of their cars in the Indian market though they would have been the pioneers with global exposure.
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:14   #42
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Attachment 2241294

Oh, look! It's that same thread, again.
Let TaMo have their day in the limelight, it won't last long.

TaMo did a wonderful job educating the market about crash safety because that's the only USP they had when they started with the Nexon. Let them reap the benefits while they can.
Exactly!

Each manufacturer had its own USP back when Tata started with Nexon/Tiago.

Maruti - Frugal,Fuss free ownership,Reliable.
Honda - Honda City, Period.
German twins - Performance, build.
Hyundai - Features, both essentials as well as innovative/bling.
Mahindra - Ruggedness.

Now try to associate Tata with any of the above USPs
They had to come up with something exceptional and sensational, which they did by collaborating with GNCAP.

Sure we should thank Tata for spreading awareness of crash test but i take it with a pinch of salt.

For me, its like a power consumption rating for electronic appliances. Its nice to have 5 star rating but having 1-2 stars doesn't mean its trash.
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:20   #43
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
The catch with the Harrier and Safari is the Fiat engine’s oil filter placement, which upon impact intrudes into the driver’s footwell in right hand drive applications. This is a fact that has been leaked out of Tata’s internal testing, and is something they seemingly can’t fix. The rating they will get with the current powertrain will not be worth advertising. By extension, this should be an issue with other applications of this engine as well: MG Hector and Jeep Compass. None of their right hand drive variants have been explicitly tested with the 2.0MJD engine.

As for Harrier and Safari, Tata knows that nothing less than a 5 star rating will do, especially since the XUV700 has achieved it. These two will be tested only when Tata is confident about achieving the desired result. My guess is that will happen only with the petrol engine, which is being designed from grounds up. Till then, your guess is as good as mine.
Very informative. Thanks ! In fact, I wondered how does Jeep sell their cars in UK with the same engine (also right hand drive). Went to their site- they don't. They sell the Compass there with only the plug in Hybrid. So that is that.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 10th December 2021 at 11:48. Reason: Corrected typo -> informative
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Old 5th December 2021, 15:30   #44
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
It tests a car crashing into a static barrier with a lateral offset at 64 kmph. This is the equivalent of two cars of similar weight crashing into each other at 32 kmph. .

Not quite accurate. Wall collision at 64kmph is equivalent to two cars (same weight) crashing into each other at 64kmph
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Old 5th December 2021, 16:13   #45
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Default re: Is Tata Motors actually the safety saint it pretends to be?

Quite a conundrum that Tata is being weighed down by their own image of safety (which they had rightfully created)

If the vehicle Harrier/Safari would have emerged with top 5* score under LHD configuration; it gives me a feeling of confidence that it is a well engineered car. However from the scoring methodology, RHD models might not score that perfect 5, but if I were in that segment as a buyer I would still take it as a reassurance of the integrity of the monocoque structure than be a slave to the evaluation criteria. The intrusion of the oil filter would still affect the passenger in LHD, just that it does not handicap the scores

We have had cars whose scores improved solely by the addition of a seatbelt reminder, which in my book that is not an engineering improvement; rather a hack to address exactly the aspect that matters for NCAP

It is a revelation nonetheless that even a CBU carrying a 5* Euro NCAP score need not be the same in its untested RHD avatar

Last edited by GeeTee TSI : 5th December 2021 at 16:21.
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