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Old 12th April 2022, 17:31   #46
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by PrasunBannerjee View Post
I think I can look into the future now! Here's what's about to happen.
[*]People might cancel some of the bookings and some waiting time might come down, sales might dwindle a bit, and add up in Tata and Mahindra's favour (but for a while)
[*]Top bosses in certain companies will now be furious, because of a PR disaster and a bad repute which it will bring.

!
The Seltos result is many months old. The Swift/WagonR result is even older. What change have you seen in the sales numbers ? I dont think the companies will be bothered the slightest bit apart from some social media (f)ire which can be doused easily.

The problem is that there are too many variables with regard to road safety in Indian conditions. A Bolero/Trax Cruiser with 15 passengers stashed in is far more vulnerable to casualties than some of the sub-par rated cars. A 5-star rated car can be driven recklessly (several recent examples) and result in casualties. A well rated car with all passengers secured in may be hit by a side-shunt and cause casualties. Ultimately, consumers should be the judge of what they are buying and how they are using their vehicle. The GNCAP scoring debate unfortunately remains only academic for such reasons.
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Old 12th April 2022, 17:37   #47
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

Maruti was always blamed for making structurally weak cars. I guess Hyundai-Kia should probably be included in the same category now. At least, in Maruti's defense, they make much more affordable cars.

It must be really embarrassing for Hyundai to score lower than a Maruti. But again, why would they care when they are sold out for the next six months of production.
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Old 12th April 2022, 17:41   #48
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re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

I'll start by saying: I agree completely that Global NCAP should develop localised tests. But I also think that in the absence of resources for developing new tests or even adding more of the usual tests, they're doing what they can:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
The actual seat belt usage again is different from other countries. If you refer to RASSI data for Indian 4W accidents, more than 80% fatalities / serious injuries are caused by non usage of seat belts.
Which is why Global NCAP awards points for seatbelt reminders, and not just for having them, they have to meet a higher standard that's more annoying than Indian/ECE regulation to force occupants to buckle up. In fact in the next protocol that you speak of, you won't be able to score more than two stars if your front seatbelt reminders don't meet this higher standard, and there will also be points awarded for rear seatbelt reminders.

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Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
I could go on but as a starter, unbelted crash tests similar to the USA is a must to have as a minimum level of safety check and can be a game changer.
FMVSS 208-unbelted is a regulation and not a consumer rating because it's one thing to silently homologate a car for unbelted crashes, but hell will break loose if you try telling consumers that a car 'performs well' in an unbelted crash. You can't possibly be implying that a consumer rating organisation should issue ratings for unbelted crashes.

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Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
Yes, there are some differences in scoring but by degrading what it means to have a 5 star rating, they have unnecessarily made some vehicles seem more safer than they actually are.
Okay yes that part I could not agree with more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
My position has been always that India needs and deserves extremely stringent crash requirements considering how education growth, economic growth and car sales have grown independent of each other.
Yes but this is a test that Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai have been developing cars for since the late 1990s, or okay, I'll give them some benefits and say early 2000s. If they still think it's not worth going beyond regulation even this much then what's the probability they'll suddenly change their minds if tests get tougher?

As for 'not caring' about the test I might remind you that Suzuki was actually the first ever manufacturer to achieve four stars for a city car in Latin NCAP (the made-in-India LHD Celerio (A-star)) and the test was sponsored by them. Furas cited the example time and again in interviews.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:00   #49
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

Well this is is expected from a company which keeps on deleting features every few months to a year (As far as remember I can't recall Suzuki,Toyota deleting features from their cars in the same fashion).

Hyundai seems to have become all about looks, gimmicky electronic features. 3 star rating is just not acceptable under any circumstances when one shells out 22 lacs on a vehicle which has months and months of waiting period in this day and age.

Koreans have done their market research really well and know that majority Indian customers like good looks, good quality interior Plastics, electronic features and don't care about safety.

First reliability and DCT heating issues, then dealership fiascos and now this. Yesterday only I read about a BHPian replacing his i20 with Jeep Compass saying that Hyundai cars don't age well. I totally agree with that. Few weeks back I got off after parking my car and while I was going to the lift this blue Hyundai Eon just came. Its engine was making a completely awful noise. The worst engine sound I have heard in my life. That's not the only case I have observed this many times about older Hyundai Petrol engines making really awful noises once they age.

Only in India, Hyundai Kia seems to be thought of as a premium brand whereas the reality is totally opposite in the Western World.

I personally always felt like buying a Hyundai since I liked the interior quality and they no doubt have a feel good factor in them compared to Suzuki but now I will stick only to Toyota, Honda, Suzuki.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:01   #50
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by car_guy1998 View Post
Any information that which manufacturer is going to enter 5-star club soon?
Absolutely not, please don't read too much into what I said, it's just based on a gut feeling that stems from Alejandro making a specific reference to that model's standard safety equipment in the NDTV video, the host saying there might be more results soon (they always have the inside dope about Global NCAP), and the fact that there's an upcoming launch. Yes the model I had in mind is one of those you've mentioned.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:07   #51
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re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

Not surprised by the crash ratings. This was expected, especially after Seltos which shares the same platform as Creta got same rating (almost). Good to see Urban Cruiser (aham Brezza) scre 4 stars, again which was expected. This proves that bumper job will not have effect on crash ratings.

I am eagerly waiting for crash results of below vehicles, they may never be tested, but still waiting. Anything less than 4 stars for below cars will be heartbreaking.
  • Tata Harrier
  • Jeep Compass
  • MG Hector
  • MG Astor
  • Kushaq twins
  • Slavia twins

The mass market never cared about crash ratings, Maruti sales prove it. This will make headlines for few days and Creta will return being the top SUV sold in India. Tata has a great opportunity here to pull it's socks make their sarkari showrooms aka Tata showrooms customer service better, this will ignite the sales chart if done.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:11   #52
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by nagr22 View Post
Interesting to see Urban Cruiser has a marginally better score for Adults and significantly better score for Children. Is it because the structure is different compared to Brezza?
It's because Brezza was tested for the 2018 model and the urban cruiser was tested on the 2020 facelifted model. Should be same results of Brezza too was tested.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:16   #53
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

If Maruti can get its new Baleno, S-Cross and other releases to at least a 3-star (or 4, if possible) and with much better engines (hopefully), it's going to be a very successful couple of years for them. I seriously hope they do so, and I also hope they bring in Toyota's proper hybrids to challenge all those pesky EVs. It would probably be a masterstroke and Hyundai will probably take the biggest hit. As consumers, the last thing we want to see is a car manufacturer getting complacent.

Last edited by Small Bot : 12th April 2022 at 18:17.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:18   #54
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

What was the point of requesting an Urban Cruiser for a crash test? We are well aware that it is mechanically no different to the Brezza crash-tested in 2016, except for the petrol engine. I hope the next set of results includes the new Baleno, as it is the best-selling "premium" hatchback and claims to be built safer than its predecessor.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:27   #55
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

No surprises here. Seltos rating was indicator enough on Hyundai's India practices. Maruti has been notorious for being 'Tin-Can' makers but I guess Hyundai is worse. If you notice the scores, maruti actually scores better than Hyundai comparably.

@Mods : Can we please have these in bold in the respective review threads(existing & future)? The way in every TATA review we have 'A.S.S can be a hit or miss'. Now I guess we have enough proof that Hyundai car = Unsafe/'Structurally unstable'

Urban Cruiser sort of replicated Brezza's rating. Atleast 1 maruti that has a stable shell.

Last edited by SoumenD : 12th April 2022 at 18:31.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:31   #56
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I dont understand why we must single out Hyundai/Kia? I can say the same for almost all cars in any price range. How many of these have been tested by GNCAP ? If we start recommending purely on the basis of scores, the current automobile market will shrink to less than half of what it is, and the purchase cost will go through the roof. We can go on debating the specifics of this issue ad-nauseum, but I am pretty sure no country in the world has all its road worthy cars rated at the highest level of safety ratings. So is the case with India. You dont like a 3-star rated car costing 20L? Good luck finding a 4/5 star rated car in that category and even if there is one, good luck with waiting forever to have it delivered.
What is wrong with pointing out one of the major fundamental cons in a car? Reliability issues can be solved with some effort, showroom and service center experiences can be dealt with, but how can we make a structurally weak car safe. Tata has been bashed for noisy engines and sub-par dealership experiences many a times in this forum, so why Hyundai/kia should not deserve the same! Even if the xuv700 and thar are getting forever to be delivered, the Seltos/Creta situation is also not much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
The problem is that there are too many variables with regard to road safety in Indian conditions. A Bolero/Trax Cruiser with 15 passengers stashed in is far more vulnerable to casualties than some of the sub-par rated cars. A 5-star rated car can be driven recklessly (several recent examples) and result in casualties. A well rated car with all passengers secured in may be hit by a side-shunt and cause casualties.
We should not justify a unsafe car comparing it with a bullock cart. Although Indian road conditions are bad, why our cars should not be safe? We are not talking about the statistics of causality in the whole country when discussing about the safety of a particular car, we analyze how much safety the particular car can provide to its occupants. We have seen safe cars driven recklessly causing trouble, but we have also seen many examples of occupants being saved by a safer car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
Ultimately, consumers should be the judge of what they are buying and how they are using their vehicle. The GNCAP scoring debate unfortunately remains only academic for such reasons.
I agree that consumer should be the judge, but nothing wrong in educating a fellow member about safety ratings. Although the impact of the NCAP scores has been minimal, but the awareness about safety is constantly increasing. Also, criticism can force the manufacturer to take the issues into consideration, which is evident from the recent Baleno launch.
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Old 12th April 2022, 18:41   #57
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

Summary of all frontal offset crash test results since 2014.

Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4-fqjldp5xeaay9jt.jpeg

Toyota joins the top ten once again.
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Old 12th April 2022, 19:13   #58
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by prajwalmr62 View Post
Creta's rating is basically same as Seltos rating, both barely touching 3 star requirement. If this is the case, i20 is the safest car in Hyundai's stable, huh. (Barring Tuscon, of course).

Is it safe to assume Venue/Sonet pair also would be in the same ball pack? Marginal 3 star?
Sonet will definitely be in the 2 star category. If you refer to the old thread showing the body structure of Indian Hyundais and Kias, Sonet had no Ultra High strength steel and very little High strength steel. The creta and Seltos at least had a small bit of UHSS on the underbody. I had made up my mind to buy a Seltos back in 2020 but that thread changed my mind and led to renewed research and I ended up buying a ZS EV.
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Old 12th April 2022, 19:27   #59
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Re: Global NCAP: New Creta, New i20, Urban Cruiser

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Originally Posted by lina View Post
Sonet will definitely be in the 2 star category. If you refer to the old thread showing the body structure of Indian Hyundais and Kias, Sonet had no Ultra High strength steel and very little High strength steel.
If Sonet/Venue doesn't have high strength steel, I see no reason why i20 should have it. Also Creta has more HSS/UHSS compared to i20 but the safety rating is almost same.
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Old 12th April 2022, 19:29   #60
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
... The actual seat belt usage again is different from other countries. If you refer to RASSI data for Indian 4W accidents, more than 80% fatalities / serious injuries are caused by non usage of seat belts. The extent of pot holes/ irregular speed breakers causes very different accident load cases than what is mandated by NCAP in India. I could go on but as a starter, unbelted crash tests similar to the USA is a must to have as a minimum level of safety check and can be a game changer.
...
I've seen RASSI data too and my colleagues have done extensive analysis with this data. You are right that seat belt usage is appallingly low, but I don't agree that performing crash tests without seatbelts is the way forward. That part has to be taken care by more education as such moves will only encourage more people to drive without seatbelts.

Similarly the child scores have even lower relevance as even fewer people put their children in proper child seats and India does not even have a rule regarding child seating.

However NCAP's are for consumer awareness and under standard conditions that are clearly defined, it gives the end user a comparison of safety levels across various cars.


Quote:
... An ESP and pole test would only be required for 4 and 5 stars. 3 stars are still easier to get.
For even a 3 star rating, optional ESP has to be offered on atleast one variant from July 2022.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 12th April 2022 at 19:30.
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