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Old 9th July 2024, 18:02   #1
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Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

In the recent time, there is a report of a high end car being driven rashly and crashing in to something/someone for every other week. It makes me wonder, even if the drivers were either drunk or reckless, why has the ADAS, specifically 'automatic emergency braking' not come in to play and prevented the accidents.
Is it because either the drivers would have disabled them or simply they do not work at these insane speeds?
It is a high time the cars with brutal power come with some kind of smartness where they simply don't allow a drunken or bad drivers to continue driving them.
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Old 9th July 2024, 18:55   #2
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
It is a high time the cars with brutal power come with some kind of smartness where they simply don't allow a drunken or bad drivers to continue driving them.
Why limiting to only the high end cars, maybe its only the high end car crashes that catches the headlines. If you take statistics I am pretty sure there will be a lot of accidents caused due to drunken driving.

More than the technology, I believe the driving culture and our attitude towards safety needs to be changed, how many of our family members wear seat belts when seated in the rear seats?
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Old 9th July 2024, 19:08   #3
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Why has the ADAS, specifically 'automatic emergency braking' not come in to play and prevented the accidents.
Is it because either the drivers would have disabled them or simply they do not work at these insane speeds?
Disclaimer: I have not driven a car with ADAS and do not know how effective it is. What I have is a pseudo-ADAS of my dash cam which I always keep on. While it warns me when I approach a car too close or if there is a car that overtakes me, it does not seem to be bothered about bikes at all. Many a times I have had bikers cutting into my lane and the dash cam merrily remains silent. Probably it cannot detect small objects. I would assume a LiDAR based system to do much better than this but not detecting objects, particularly when driven at insane speeds can be a problem.

The other point is that even if it detects and makes necessary emergency braking, it cannot go beyond the physical limitations of the brakes.


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It is a high time the cars with brutal power come with some kind of smartness where they simply don't allow a drunken or bad drivers to continue driving them.
I would say do not challenge the fool. While artificial intelligence can beat natural intelligence, I believe it is no match to natural stupidity.
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Old 9th July 2024, 19:39   #4
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by electric_eel View Post
Disclaimer: I have not driven a car with ADAS and do not know how effective it is.
My car (Tiguan Allspace) has AEB which got triggered few times when there was no real need (like a person running to cross the road who would eventually stop and wait for the car to pass).
But in one instance I think the AEB may have saved me from the trouble. One day when I was driving to office, a bike guy was hit by an innova and was flung right in front of my car. My car stopped inches from the guy. My car's siren was on for some time and the usual error of emergency calling appeared. This is why I suspected that AEB may have got triggered in addition to me applying the brake.
Even on the highway, the radar systems warns you if you are too close to a vehicle and I am sure that I you get really close (at that speed), it will apply the emergency brake.

Last edited by Guna : 9th July 2024 at 19:41.
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Old 9th July 2024, 20:21   #5
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

ADAS cannot overcome the laws of physics. Any object in motion will require time and space to come to a full halt. ADAS may eliminate the reaction time but it cannot eliminate momentum instantly.
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Old 9th July 2024, 21:06   #6
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
ADAS cannot overcome the laws of physics. Any object in motion will require time and space to come to a full halt. ADAS may eliminate the reaction time but it cannot eliminate momentum instantly.
Eliminating momentum instantly is not the goal of ADAS in the 1st place. It's job is to detect hazards ahead to do what you mentioned that is to come to a full halt with reasonable space and time
Also there is no law of physics that dictates momentum can't be killed instantly(instant is subjective). Imagine a car hitting a light pole on the road and it's momentum is killed instantly
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Old 9th July 2024, 21:43   #7
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
It makes me wonder..why has the ADAS, specifically 'automatic emergency braking' not come in to play and prevented the accidents.
Is it because either the drivers would have disabled them or simply they do not work at these insane speeds?
You maybe surprised that most of the luxury cars don't have ADAS features. Porsche Pune car (latest and over 1,5 Cr) would not have ADAS nor the Mumbai BMW (looks older generation). Adaptive cruise or ADAS are still a luxury for such premium car manufacturers whereas the cheaper cars from Mahindra/ Hyundai/ Kia are far better equipped with such technology.
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Old 9th July 2024, 21:45   #8
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
ADAS cannot overcome the laws of physics. Any object in motion will require time and space to come to a full halt. ADAS may eliminate the reaction time but it cannot eliminate momentum instantly.
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Originally Posted by ssateesh View Post
Eliminating momentum instantly is not the goal of ADAS in the 1st place. It's job is to detect hazards ahead to do what you mentioned that is to come to a full halt with reasonable space and time
In case of the recent incidents of over-speeding cars hitting scooters, even blunting some of the speed would have minimised the damage.
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Old 9th July 2024, 21:47   #9
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by ssateesh View Post
Also there is no law of physics that dictates momentum can't be killed instantly(instant is subjective). Imagine a car hitting a light pole on the road and it's momentum is killed instantly
My point was more pertaining to ADAS and what it can and cannot do. People seem to put a lot of faith in these technologies without realizing their limitations.

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
In case of the recent incidents of over-speeding cars hitting scooters, even blunting some of the speed would have minimised the damage.
Might have "reduced" the damage, but minimized? I dont think we have enough evidence to confirm that.

Last edited by amitoj : 9th July 2024 at 21:50.
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Old 10th July 2024, 05:51   #10
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

ADAS is highly customizable. One can switch on and off the various functions. What the OP seems to refer to is an all encompassing control system that monitors and limits vehicle movement based on imminent danger, like the flight computers (FBW). It is an interesting thought, but again may have limitations in a typical Indian road driving cycle where you have unpredictable obstacles every few hundred metres.
But I believe that steering wheel based sensors that detect alcohol breath have been tested . That may be a more useful solution whereby one cannot start a car if the breath test is not clear. And then, on a continuous basis while driving, the car should get into "limp mode" if it detects alcohol breath, implying the driver may be drinking on the go.
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Old 10th July 2024, 07:59   #11
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

This question is the prime example of modern society's infatuation and over dependency on "processing/processor tech", to solve each and everyday chore/problem.

AEB is a braking mechanism. If you're traveling at 120kmh on a national highway, and suddenly a cow or a villager on a bike pops up in your path out of nowhere, ADAS will apply brakes alright, but the braking distance , where the vehicle will stop, will vary depending on the speed, the weight and the brakes itself. It's called momentum. It cannot magically stop the vehicle before hitting the obstacle or move the vehicle aside from the obstacle without adhering to the basic physical principles in our reality.

I have seen this type thinking is much prevalent in the inexperienced younger generation that having a 5 star rating for the vehicle means, we cannot die in an accident or having ADAS in the vehicle means we don't need to be extra vigil/cautious on the roads (as our traffic demands us) and there by we can enjoy stress free driving. It's probably because of the dubious combination of marketing and excessive reliance on tech for a simple daily chore.

Last edited by Earthroamer : 10th July 2024 at 08:05.
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Old 10th July 2024, 08:52   #12
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by ssateesh View Post
Also there is no law of physics that dictates momentum can't be killed instantly(instant is subjective). Imagine a car hitting a light pole on the road and it's momentum is killed instantly
This is unscientific statement. Momentum cannot be destroyed. It's transferred/changed to different forms/forces. In the above example, momentum is transferred to different bodies and ofcourse the passengers in the vehicle who then transfers it to near by bodies (steering wheel etc). This transfer of force/momentum is responsible for deaths.

AEB is bound to abide by the braking distance of the vehicle. If you are at 120 , and an obstacle (cow or biker) pops up suddenly in your path, AEB will apply brakes, just like human would. The vehicle will travel it's braking distance before coming to a halt. It will collide with anything and everything within the braking distance. It's applicable anywhere in the universe.
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Old 10th July 2024, 09:13   #13
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

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Originally Posted by Earthroamer View Post
This question is the prime example of modern society's infatuation and over dependency on "processing/processor tech", to solve each and everyday chore/problem.

I have seen this type thinking is much prevalent in the inexperienced younger generation that having a 5 star rating for the vehicle means, we cannot die in an accident or having ADAS in the vehicle means we don't need to be extra vigil/cautious on the roads (as our traffic demands us) and there by we can enjoy stress free driving. It's probably because of the dubious combination of marketing and excessive reliance on tech for a simple daily chore.
Quoting my own experience below. You have to understand that if a speeding car hits a scooter from behind, it doesn't happen all of a sudden out on the blue. Car must be following the scooter from few seconds and the system can detect the narrowing gap at a rapid pace, which should trigger the AEB. Also, it is not a big ask or a rocket science to include a feature where the car can't do insane speeds in the city. It i just a matter of how far the car manufacturers want to go.
BTW, no, not just young inexperienced people but someone in the mid 50s like me with background in design and engineering, who has been driving for nearly 3 decade also get such thoughts (of using tech to solve problems) .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
One day when I was driving to office, a bike guy was hit by an innova and was flung right in front of my car. My car stopped inches from the guy. My car's siren was on for some time and the usual error of emergency calling appeared. I suspected that AEB may have got triggered in addition to me applying the brake.
Even on the highway, the radar systems warns you if you are too close to a vehicle and I am sure that if you get really close (at that speed), it will apply the emergency brake.

Last edited by Guna : 10th July 2024 at 09:19.
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Old 10th July 2024, 09:49   #14
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

Most people turn off the ADAS feature in city. Nothing wrong doing so. The system is confused in our bumper to bumper city traffic conditions where vehicles cut lanes, people cross the roads. So you keep getting the beeps, warnings, and automatic braking. It is very irritating driving with ADAS. The experience inverses on highway where you love this feature.

However most accidents happen during acceleration and overtakings. So, I feel if the vehicle has ADAS it should automatically be activated above a certain speed or acceleration. The Level 1 ADAS feature of automatic emergency brake assist should be made mandatory on all vehicles that can do a 0-100 under 10seconds
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Old 10th July 2024, 10:01   #15
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Re: Car crashes involving high end cars, why ADAS is not able to prevent them?

Let's call it ADAS or whatever. In my opinion , if at the very least, it can help to control drunken driving through the use of steering wheel based monitoring systems and if it can help to keep the vehicle within speed limits through the use of speed monitoring systems, I would strongly welcome the features.

I recently had the pleasure of reading the words of the great scientist, Sir Isaac Newton, who had given us the laws of motion; he had quipped 'I can calculate the motions of heavenly bodies but not the madness of men'. Though it was said in relation to his investments vanishing at a greater speed, it seems equally applicable to our behaviour in general on the roads today.

I also think that OP's thoughts have sprung forth because of a genuine concern to improve traffic behaviour and reduce the loss of innocent lives due to man made disasters.
Hope the OEMs, the law makers and enforcement agencies make sincere efforts to improve the situation.
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