[RaguHolla]

^^^
in which way you think they are not doing "he/ she should ensure that the child is kept out of harm's way till the child is able to fend for itself"? Parents putting child between them itself is a way to protect. But degree of protection varies from person to person. Just because one is carrying a child which we think is dangerous manner doesn't make them morons.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Parents putting child between them itself is a way to protect. But degree of protection varies from person to person. Just because one is carrying a child which we think is dangerous manner doesn't make them morons.

Mate, citing standard of living and breaking the law is not done. A two wheeler is for 2 people. Putting a child in between the parent and also holding one in the hand with the head of the infant lolling around is carelessness & blatant disregard for the law, no matter what the standard of living. And of course they are bad riders and a hazard to all the other road users. The point relating to this is already made by selfdrive.

I think Noopster's comment was more to do with the correct way of carrying the child than the standard of living part anyways. And parents who dont bother to carry their own children in a responsible way no matter how rich/poor they are, are akin to morons!!

[noopster]

I stand by my statement. Any person who exposes their child to danger the way that particular set of parents did is a moron. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in explaining what the possible danger was. Let me do so now:

- A small child squeezed between parents is a bad idea. In case of an accident or a sudden stop, the child may be crushed and/or badly injured.
- An even smaller child held in the arms of its mother riding pilion is absolutely unacceptable. Try riding a bike pillion with a package- any package- in your hands. Now replace package with the 3-month old apple of your eye.
- Combination of 1 & 2 above = absolutely suicidal.
- And yes, moronic.

[RaguHolla]

^^^
Sleeping childs head will always lollies around. There is nothing mother would/can do while riding a bike. Again I hear If one doesn't do the things his/her way, other will become moron by default! Whatever noopster said about bad driver is fine with me, But calling them as morons to totally uncalled.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

^^^
Sleeping childs head will always lollies around.

Which is why they should not be held in one hand while riding pillion. That is the stupid part.

It is high time that children get some assistance from law in this regard. They should be travelling in their own seat and counted as a separate individual.
In the absence of such a law, how difficult is it to enforce some restrictions on ourselves? After all it is the safety of our next gen.

At the end of the day, its my opinion and each can have his own. What I think is not necessary should be subscribed to by everyone. At the same time, unless someone can convince me otherwise I will not change my opinion either

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

^^^
Even with two hands one can't do any thing of lolling head. It itself isn't much of concern, otherwise mother would never would have done it. I do not agree perception of observe as dangerous. Mother knows her child best!
Neither can I change perception of people living in comforts and understand others plight! sigh!

RaguHolla, I am not disputing that the mother knows the child best. All I am saying is in this case, she should be more careful and take preventive action for all the other risks that traffic poses these days. In other words she should know the environment and its risks better. Trucks, state & local transport, potholes roads, flying rubble from bigger vehicles, overspeeding vehicles, rash taxis, the list goes on.

Anyway, I guess we agree to disagree.

[RaguHolla]

^^^

Even with two hands one can't do any thing of lolling head. It itself isn't much of concern, otherwise mother would never would have done it. I do not agree perception of observe as dangerous. Mother knows her child best!

Neither can I change perception of people living in comforts and understand others plight! sigh!

[noopster]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Anyway, I guess we agree to disagree.

Sorry- I don't (agree to disagree, that is). That would be a cop-out.

A 2-wheeler is meant for seating two people: the rider and the pillion. Period.

In my honest opinion, BOTH these should be wearing helmets at the bare minimum, not to mention elbow pads, knee pads and any other form of protective gear. But here I am helpless since my own government doesn't agree with me even on the helmet part .

Also, a lot of us take calculated risks (e.g. making a child stand/sit in front of the driver, seating a child between two seated adults, carrying an infant in the arms, etc.) Presumably we are mature adults and know better than to put our children and loved ones intentionally in harm's way. No debate there.

But does that make it right? What if---hypothetical situation--- the motorbike with the family of two kids that I reported spotting got in an accident with a car? I should also mention that this was near the busy Pune University circle- selfdrive and other Puneites will know what I mean. It's safe to presume that the two-wheeler riders will be the worse off in such a scenario. Who is responsible for any casualties in such a case?

A friend of mine asked me yesterday why I drive so slowly in the city: I told him I was scared to death of bikers. Bikers who carry their entire families, including kids, in an unsafe manner top that list.

Mr. RaguHolla- if this is not moronic behaviour, please define it for me.

[Swanand Inamdar]

While not disputing the standard of living of anyone, what I feel is, carrying a child (sleeping or not) in that manner is plain moronic.
If one rally wants to carry a child on a two wheeler, one can easily get those child harness's at the least. That would'nt put the child completely out of danger, but is a tad better than letting his sleeping head dangle.

[bblost]

A loss of 200 ml blood for a small child and a loss of just 50 ml blood for an infant is FATAL.

If the child slips and falls down, its tender bones in the head CANNOT protect it from the hard surface of a road.

The child will DIE. A parent who out of ignorance or otherwise puts a child as risk. Is a MORON.

Such a person should NOT have given birth to this child in the first place.

@RaguHolla:
There is no argument about a child's head rolling around.
The argument is about having kids on motorcycles as a third or fourth passenger.

[RaguHolla]

@bblost: Not in argument with what said about how child should be protected or as such. Only thing was calling them as moron is wrong. Again part is how would one know a parent is ignoring his/her child. Mere seeing it like that won't do any justice. Each parent well aware of their child ability and dangers the road poses! They would do all they can to protect their child.

Because one see someone ferrying child like that can't judge their parenthood as morons. Argument of two wheeler is only for two person is just absurd. Had you been in similar situation you would made sensible comment. As I said, unless you have been lived their life, how would you know whats right?

[Dieseldunk]

Do not want to sound bad or take sides but here is what i feel
Common sight in many of our cities
family on bike -parents + child minimum1 max-till the bike seating allows)
there are major issues
females sit on the side posture and not in the legs astride both sides which in itself is a bit of concern. children sometimes sitting in the front can cause disruption of handle bar grip or turns can become a bit difficult to take.
children at back can suddenly stretch their arms and cause on-coming traffic a problem
Moreover I still remember whilst in college we were travelling by bus(on cottonpet road in blr) and a family on bike with 1 child in front and one in rear were going ahead of us and when the signal cleared shortly the road was clear and suddenly the child in the rear threw his legs up in front and the bus driver had to stand on the brakes literally to avoid hitting the limb of the child.

Any comments on the above

PS: Hear someone telling- children in front seat can cause accidents..

[bblost]

@Ragu:

For all I know, the father and mother may be doing multiple jobs. To earn a decent living. Never buying anything for themselves so the kids can have a good education.
As parents they may be the best in the world.

But as road user, is it not plain stupid if you cannot read the signs.
Every newspaper has atleast 2 road deaths reported everyday.
In fact there would hardly be a single person in India, who has not lost a relative or friend to an accident.
I would go so far as to say that if you live in a city, then someone you know will die on the road every year. Not necessarily someone you are directly related to, but someone from the neighborhood or extended circle of friends.

What will call someone who knowingly puts his hand in a fire?
Will you still be searching for a politically correct word.

[suhaas307]

The worst kind of drivers and riders, IMO, are the ones who allow their children to sit on the tank/sit behind them, while they blatantly break traffic rules and violate the laws of the road.

Why? Well, because, children tend to emulate their parents. And when the child grows up and begins to drive/ride, he/she would believe that they aren't doing anything wrong when they break a rule, because they've seen their parents do the same thing.

I see two-wheeler riders breaking rules every day, and 5 out of 10 of them would have a kid with them. Stand on Shantinagar Double Road for about half an hour, and you'll see people with their children on two-wheelers cutting the median and riding on the wrong side of the road, and of course, all while not wearing a helmet.

[k_nitin_r]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

I thought Hyd traffic was the worst. I decided to buy a car after having some close calls. Same for the 2 wheeler riders who want to cut across a car just before a median.

Hyderabad has an abundance of 2-wheeler riders who put their lives in danger. An accident I witnessed in Hyderabad was because a 2-wheeler ride decided to overtake a truck from the wrong side of the road, lost his balance, and just missed getting crushed by the truck (he slid off the road just a few feet ahead of the truck). He was lucky to have got out of it alive and to get away with a working bike too.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

^^^
in which way you think they are not doing "he/ she should ensure that the child is kept out of harm's way till the child is able to fend for itself"? Parents putting child between them itself is a way to protect. But degree of protection varies from person to person. Just because one is carrying a child which we think is dangerous manner doesn't make them morons.

First, they are ignorant. They have never learnt about potential and kinetic energy, and, if they did, they think it some theory for exams that does not apply to them.

Exactly the the same thing applies to seat belts.

The child held in mother's arms inside a car is not that much safer. Nor are the adults: it is just that the thin steel box gives a delusion of safety.

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

^^^

Even with two hands one can't do any thing of lolling head. It itself isn't much of concern, otherwise mother would never would have done it. I do not agree perception of observe as dangerous. Mother knows her child best!

Mother has no idea what will happen to her and her child if the bike even does an emergency stop, let alone if it hits something. Please refer to the principles of physics mentioned above, and then decide what "plight" might have to do with it.

Many people never studied physics (I was a duffer at any maths-related science, I just remember this bit: life has given me a few practical demonstrations!). First, they are ignorant. If they are not, then all the other words come into play!